Crime Guy RNCed on NY subway dies.

skold said:
2nd degree murder LITERALLY means that you weren't trying to kill the person. Thats why its 2ND DEGREE and not 1ST
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I think manslaughter, round these parts, is when the killing is accidental. Like, I punch someone in the face as a flinch after they spit at me, and they somehow die, manslaughter. 2nd degree is when you catch your wife cheating and blast off in the heat of passion. 1st degree is when you have a plan, get your guns, take revenge later, then hide the body in the place where you have planned.

I personally think a lot of 2nd degree should be treated as 1st because people arm themselves with the intention of killing someone, but they just haven't hashed it all out yet. That's almost worse.
 
mkess101 said:
This isn't some contest where there's no gray area.

The guy had a history of violent attacks, including trying to push someone onto the subway tracks. That's attempted murder, as that very likely results in the person's death.

The guy who choked him out almost surely wasn't trying to kill him. So your "2nd degree murder" is silly hyperbole. The guy wanted to stop him from trying to hurt anyone else but obviously had no clue what he was doing with the choke. Thought he'd seen a few UFC fights and could just grab an RNC as long as he wanted. Horrible outcome but no intent to kill the guy.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't care about the death or that the other guy has zero blame.
Click to expand...
The guy that killed him didn’t see him hurt anyone else. Killing someone when you don’t mean to doesn’t mean shit especially when you initiate the action resulting in the others death.
 
Edmond_Dantes said:
the intent was to defend other passengers, not kill him.
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Again, the reports are that he choked him for 15 minutes. I don't think any adult can fail to realize that that would kill someone. I've seen some dishonest posters accuse Democrats of failing to condemn crime, but now you're saying that they should refuse to condemn the murderer here. I don't get it. I really wouldn't expect anyone to justify such a thing.
 
Jacket time said:
44 priors.. a hill to die on
459.gif
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Imagine defending a 44x convict <JagsKiddingMe>
 
skold said:
2nd degree murder LITERALLY means that you weren't trying to kill the person. Thats why its 2ND DEGREE and not 1ST
Click to expand...
Second-degree murder. Any intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned. A situation in which the killer intends only to inflict serious bodily harm, knowing this could result in death but with no specific intent to kill, constitutes depraved-heart murder, which can be considered as second-degree murder.
 
emefer said:
The guy that killed him didn’t see him hurt anyone else. Killing someone when you don’t mean to doesn’t mean shit especially when you initiate the action resulting in the others death.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you kill someone for annoying you and then it turns out they have a rap sheet, it's OK? Is that the argument people are making?
 
Edmond_Dantes said:
can't wait for the first leftist dipshit to say "ddduuuuurrr...well, looks like Sherfront is back!"
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But I s'pose it's OK for a Right Wingnut to say it? Get your mirror out Cletus.


Dude is right about society failing the mentally ill, it happens all the time.

HOWEVER, you can not have folks pushing other folks on to the tracks.
We SHOULD do more for the mentally ill, we SHOULD protect the lives of mentally ill folks, BUT the lives of the sane should come first.

That said, the defense will have to prove that the dead fella was an present hazard or Rambo's going to jail.
 
Jack V Savage said:
Again, the reports are that he choked him for 15 minutes. I don't think any adult can fail to realize that that would kill someone. I've seen some dishonest posters accuse Democrats of failing to condemn crime, but now you're saying that they should refuse to condemn the murderer here. I don't get it. I really wouldn't expect anyone to justify such a thing.
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Not just that. They want to give him a medal.

and a cape

and some underwear that goes on over top of his pants
 
mkess101 said:
This isn't some contest where there's no gray area.

The guy had a history of violent attacks, including trying to push someone onto the subway tracks. That's attempted murder, as that very likely results in the person's death.

The guy who choked him out almost surely wasn't trying to kill him. So your "2nd degree murder" is silly hyperbole. The guy wanted to stop him from trying to hurt anyone else but obviously had no clue what he was doing with the choke. Thought he'd seen a few UFC fights and could just grab an RNC as long as he wanted. Horrible outcome but no intent to kill the guy.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't care about the death or that the other guy has zero blame.
Click to expand...

The military are not known for their bright intellect but anyone should know that locking in an RNC for multiple minutes while the victim is limp and motionless can kill.

skold said:
2nd degree murder LITERALLY means that you weren't trying to kill the person. Thats why its 2ND DEGREE and not 1ST
Click to expand...

SummerStriker said:
I think manslaughter, round these parts, is when the killing is accidental. Like, I punch someone in the face as a flinch after they spit at me, and they somehow die, manslaughter. 2nd degree is when you catch your wife cheating and blast off in the heat of passion. 1st degree is when you have a plan, get your guns, take revenge later, then hide the body in the place where you have planned.

I personally think a lot of 2nd degree should be treated as 1st because people arm themselves with the intention of killing someone, but they just haven't hashed it all out yet. That's almost worse.
Click to expand...

I posted the law here: https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/171047922/

It was page 9 when I posted it but now it's page 6 so many posts have been deleted lol.

Aggravated Murder

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com/new-york-penal-law-125-26-aggravated-murder.html

Under New York Penal Law § 125.26, you could be prosecuted for aggravated murder if you:

  1. Intentionally caused the death of another person who was a police officer or a peace officer performing his or her official duties,

  2. Intentionally caused the death of another person and the victim was a firefighter, emergency medical technician, ambulance driver, paramedic, physician or registered nurse responding to an emergency,

  3. Intentionally caused the death of another person and the victim was an employee of a state correctional facility performing his or her official duties, or

  4. Caused the death of someone who was less than 14 years old or younger in a particularly cruel manner, such as by first torturing the victim.
Max Sentence: life


1st Degree Murder

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com/new-york-penal-law-125-27-murder-in-the-first-degree.html

Under New York Penal Law § 125.27 you could be prosecuted for murder in the first degree if you:
  1. Intentionally caused the death of another person and the victim was a police officer engaged in performing his or her official duties,
  2. Intentionally caused the death of another person and the victim was a firefighter, emergency medical technician, ambulance driver, paramedic, physician or registered nurse responding to an emergency,
  3. Intentionally caused the death of another person and the victim was an employee of a state correctional facility performing his or her official duties,
  4. Intentionally caused the death of a witness to a prior crime in order to prevent the witness from testifying or because the witness already testified,
  5. Intentionally caused the death of another person for profit,
  6. Caused the death of another person in furtherance of the commission of another serious felony such as kidnapping in the first degree, arson in the first degree or rape in the first degree,
  7. Caused the death of another person and you had previously been convicted of murder in the second degree, or
  8. Caused the death of another person under the conditions that showed that you had a depraved indifference for human life.
Max Punishment: from 15-40 to life


2nd Degree Murder

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com/new-york-penal-law-125-25-murder-in-the-second-degree.html

Under New York Penal Law § 125.25, you could be prosecuted for murder in the second degree if you:

  1. Intentionally caused the death of another person,
  2. Recklessly caused the death of another person under the conditions that showed that you had a depraved indifference for human life,
  3. Caused the death of another person during the commission of another crime such as robbery, burglary, arson, or sexual assault, or
  4. Caused the death of another person under the age of 11 during the commission of a sex crime such as rape in the first degree, criminal sexual act in the first degree or incest in the first degree.
Max Punishment: from 15-40 to life


1st Degree Manslaughter

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw...-125-20-manslaughter-in-the-first-degree.html

Under New York Penal Law § 125.20 you could be prosecuted for manslaughter in the first degree if:

  1. With intent to cause serious physical injury to another person you do in fact cause the death of that person,
  2. With intent to cause the death of another person you cause the death of such person or a third party while acting under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance,
  3. You perform an abortion on a woman who is more than 24 weeks pregnant and the woman dies, or
  4. You engage in an activity that puts a child who is less than 11 years old at substantial risk of serious physical injury and as a result the child dies.
Max Sentence: 25 years and a fine


2nd Degree Manslaughter

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw...125-15-manslaughter-in-the-second-degree.html

Under New York Penal Law § 125.15 you could be prosecuted for manslaughter in the second degree if:

  1. You recklessly cause the death of another person,
  2. You perform an abortion on a woman and the woman dies, or
  3. You intentionally help someone commit suicide.
Max Sentence: 15 years


Aggravated Criminally Negligent Homicide

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw...1-aggravated-criminally-negligent-homici.html

According to New York Penal Law § 15.05(4), acting with "criminal negligence" means that you failed to perceive a substantial risk that your actions or inaction would result in another person's death. The risk must constitute a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe under the circumstances.

Max Sentence: 15 years and a fine


Criminally Negligent Homicide

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com/new-york-penal-law-125-10-criminally-negligent-homicide.html#:~:text=The crime of criminally negligent,have committed criminally negligent homicide.

Under New York Penal Law § 125.10, you could be prosecuted for criminally negligent homicide if with criminal negligence you kill another person. According to New York Penal Law § 15.05(4), acting with "criminal negligence" means that you failed to perceive a substantial risk that your actions or inaction would result in another person's death. The risk must constitute a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe under the circumstances.

Max Sentence: up to 4 years and a fine

/

2nd degree murder for me.
 
Last edited:
SummerStriker said:
I think manslaughter, round these parts, is when the killing is accidental. Like, I punch someone in the face as a flinch after they spit at me, and they somehow die, manslaughter. 2nd degree is when you catch your wife cheating and blast off in the heat of passion. 1st degree is when you have a plan, get your guns, take revenge later, then hide the body in the place where you have planned.

I personally think a lot of 2nd degree should be treated as 1st because people arm themselves with the intention of killing someone, but they just haven't hashed it all out yet. That's almost worse.
Click to expand...

Varies state by state, but in most cases:

Second-degree murder — a killing that is with malice aforethought but is not premeditated, such as killing a person in the middle of a fight.
Click to expand...
https://lawrina.org/blog/the-difference-between-murder-and-manslaughter/

Manslaughter would be accidentally killing someone while drunk driving. You were at fault, but your intention wasn't to cause harm or injury to someone else.
 
Don't @ me as not really my intent to go back and forth on this matter, but you do that, and that person dies, that's a crime. I know people used, use and will use, like Joe Schilling being scared of his life against some drunken harmless untrained hobo at the bar before knocking him out while setting up the video before, that they were scared for life, but even if that marine doesn't get charged, that's a crime in my book as that is not justified. That's at the very least accidentally killing a person, no way that's a self defense holding rnc for that long. And how old do you have to be to know if you choke someone long enough they die?
 
JustOnce said:
Don't @ me as not really my intent to go back and forth on this matter, but you do that, and that person dies, that's a crime. I know people used, use and will use, like Joe Schilling being scared of his life against some drunken harmless untrained hobo at the bar before knocking him out while setting up the video before, that they were scared for life, but even if that marine doesn't get charged, that's a crime in my book as that is not justified. That's at the very least accidentally killing a person, no way that's a self defense holding rnc for that long. And how old do you have to be to know if you choke someone long enough they die?
Click to expand...

Not quoting you to argue, just warning you that for many people here, your support for Ukraine is reason enough for all your opinions about anything to be dismissed. Such is the reality around these parts.
 
It's kinda funny people saying "oh no he wasn't trying to kill him". What do you or anyone think is going to happen if you choke someone for 15 minutes? Is he a Jesus and will rise again in three days? How old do you have to be to know this?

That wouldn't have been a crime if he held that rnc to subdued the deceased, in which case no one would have died, and no one would get charged for killing that person.

It's ridiculous to defend a fucking 15 minute rnc on a skinny guy with no weapon on the guy with THREE guys holding him down TOGETHER.

I mean, how low does one's IQ need to be to feel the need to defend something like that?

Anyways, I'm out, goodnight gentlemen and ladies if there are any.

giphy.gif
 
650lb Sumo said:
The military are not known for their bright intellect but anyone should know that locking in an RNC for multiple minutes while the victim is limp and motionless can kill.





I posted the law here: https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/171047922/

It was page 9 when I posted it but now it's page 6 so many posts have been deleted lol.

Aggravated Murder

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com/new-york-penal-law-125-26-aggravated-murder.html

Under New York Penal Law § 125.26, you could be prosecuted for aggravated murder if you:

  1. Intentionally caused the death of another person who was a police officer or a peace officer performing his or her official duties,

  2. Intentionally caused the death of another person and the victim was a firefighter, emergency medical technician, ambulance driver, paramedic, physician or registered nurse responding to an emergency,

  3. Intentionally caused the death of another person and the victim was an employee of a state correctional facility performing his or her official duties, or

  4. Caused the death of someone who was less than 14 years old or younger in a particularly cruel manner, such as by first torturing the victim.
Max Sentence: life


1st Degree Murder

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com/new-york-penal-law-125-27-murder-in-the-first-degree.html

Under New York Penal Law § 125.27 you could be prosecuted for murder in the first degree if you:
  1. Intentionally caused the death of another person and the victim was a police officer engaged in performing his or her official duties,
  2. Intentionally caused the death of another person and the victim was a firefighter, emergency medical technician, ambulance driver, paramedic, physician or registered nurse responding to an emergency,
  3. Intentionally caused the death of another person and the victim was an employee of a state correctional facility performing his or her official duties,
  4. Intentionally caused the death of a witness to a prior crime in order to prevent the witness from testifying or because the witness already testified,
  5. Intentionally caused the death of another person for profit,
  6. Caused the death of another person in furtherance of the commission of another serious felony such as kidnapping in the first degree, arson in the first degree or rape in the first degree,
  7. Caused the death of another person and you had previously been convicted of murder in the second degree, or
  8. Caused the death of another person under the conditions that showed that you had a depraved indifference for human life.
Max Punishment: from 15-40 to life


2nd Degree Murder

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com/new-york-penal-law-125-25-murder-in-the-second-degree.html

Under New York Penal Law § 125.25, you could be prosecuted for murder in the second degree if you:

  1. Intentionally caused the death of another person,
  2. Recklessly caused the death of another person under the conditions that showed that you had a depraved indifference for human life,
  3. Caused the death of another person during the commission of another crime such as robbery, burglary, arson, or sexual assault, or
  4. Caused the death of another person under the age of 11 during the commission of a sex crime such as rape in the first degree, criminal sexual act in the first degree or incest in the first degree.
Max Punishment: from 15-40 to life


1st Degree Manslaughter

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw...-125-20-manslaughter-in-the-first-degree.html

Under New York Penal Law § 125.20 you could be prosecuted for manslaughter in the first degree if:

  1. With intent to cause serious physical injury to another person you do in fact cause the death of that person,
  2. With intent to cause the death of another person you cause the death of such person or a third party while acting under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance,
  3. You perform an abortion on a woman who is more than 24 weeks pregnant and the woman dies, or
  4. You engage in an activity that puts a child who is less than 11 years old at substantial risk of serious physical injury and as a result the child dies.
Max Sentence: 25 years and a fine


2nd Degree Manslaughter

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw...125-15-manslaughter-in-the-second-degree.html

Under New York Penal Law § 125.15 you could be prosecuted for manslaughter in the second degree if:

  1. You recklessly cause the death of another person,
  2. You perform an abortion on a woman and the woman dies, or
  3. You intentionally help someone commit suicide.
Max Sentence: 15 years


Aggravated Criminally Negligent Homicide

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw...1-aggravated-criminally-negligent-homici.html

According to New York Penal Law § 15.05(4), acting with "criminal negligence" means that you failed to perceive a substantial risk that your actions or inaction would result in another person's death. The risk must constitute a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe under the circumstances.

Max Sentence: 15 years and a fine


Criminally Negligent Homicide

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com/new-york-penal-law-125-10-criminally-negligent-homicide.html#:~:text=The crime of criminally negligent,have committed criminally negligent homicide.

Under New York Penal Law § 125.10, you could be prosecuted for criminally negligent homicide if with criminal negligence you kill another person. According to New York Penal Law § 15.05(4), acting with "criminal negligence" means that you failed to perceive a substantial risk that your actions or inaction would result in another person's death. The risk must constitute a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe under the circumstances.

Max Sentence: up to 4 years and a fine

/

2nd degree murder for me.
Click to expand...
I wish I read this thread after the post deletion. Wasted 3 pages of my life.
 
skold said:
Not quoting you to argue, just warning you that for many people here, your support for Ukraine is reason enough for all your opinions about anything to be dismissed. Such is the reality around these parts.
Click to expand...

Well, hope war comes to an end soon so I can change my avatar lol, just trying to show a little support.

I don't really come to this side of Sherdog, just this thread popped up, and found out about the news.

Every Sherbro is entitled to feel the way they feel about the matter. Just thought it was messed up.

Cheers.
 
emefer said:
The guy that killed him didn’t see him hurt anyone else. Killing someone when you don’t mean to doesn’t mean shit especially when you initiate the action resulting in the others death.
Click to expand...

I need the entire context. What was the guy saying? Threatening violence? Making moves that would be obviously threatening to others? Did someone recognize him as the guy who'd already committed felony assault?

You guys are making it sound like this guy was just yelling "Let's go Knicks" loudly or something and that led to a dude choking him to death. Could be (and if so, that dude did in fact murder him), but I would be pretty shocked if that was the case. I imagine this guy was acting very threatening to bring about this type of response.
 


This shows everything that is wrong with modern day liberalism.

They claim to believe that “Black Lives Matter” yet they don’t believe that lives (of any race, including black) matters when they’re taken by another black life.

Woke liberals will then shout “but, durr, most white lives are taken by other white lives.” No shit but do you see any morons chanting “white lives matter”? No, you do not.
 
LMP said:
15 mins holding a choke is ridiculous unless you are trying to kill someone.
Click to expand...

Did this turn out to be accurate, or, did he have his back and the entire ordeal took 15 minutes and an RNC was used during the ordeal? I've certainly used an RNC in situations where it was called for, but, it was a part of a 1-5 minute grappling situation but it was only 10 seconds of the larger situation.

Not even sure a human on earth has the endurance to hold an actual RNC for 15 minutes lol
 
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