Law Gun Control: A Global Overview

[RedDevilFan]

The founding fathers believed in private gun ownership.

• James Madison
  "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country"
• 
  
• Samuel Adams
  "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms"
• 
  
• Joseph Story
  "The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic"
• 
  
• George Washington
  "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined"
• 
  
• Thomas Jefferson
  "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms"
• 
  
• Benjamin Franklin
  "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Stephens Smith, son-in-law of John Adams, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

Thomas Jefferson

• “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
• 
  
• the second and third drafts of the same document states “within his own lands or tenements”t

Jefferson considered that there should be some limitations on the individual’s right to gun ownership.

 

[My Spot]

I love that it's our right to protect ourselves and our property with firearms here. If I had a background check and cooling off period to get a couple of kitties from a shelter last year, I believe the same should happen when buying a firearm.

So you no longer want "weapons of war" banned?

 

[oldshadow]

Thomas Jefferson

• “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
• 
  
• the second and third drafts of the same document states “within his own lands or tenements”t

Jefferson considered that there should be some limitations on the individual’s right to gun ownership.

Yes the free man is a restriction which over the years the Supreme court has allowed. In fact way more then plenty of people agree the 2nd allows.

 

[My Spot]

Thomas Jefferson

• “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
• 
  
• the second and third drafts of the same document states “within his own lands or tenements”t

Jefferson considered that there should be some limitations on the individual’s right to gun ownership.

NYC requires permission and a paid permit through the NYPD just to own a gun (ANY gun) in your home. I don't understand how that's constitutional.
Oregon voters passed a ballot initiative in 2022 that would've required the same thing from the Oregon State Police but fortunately it's dead now.

 

[Deorum]

And just to make this clear on the 2nd amendment.

This applies to all aspects of American liberty and individual rights. The Constitution doesn't grant freedoms; it protects them from infringement by placing explicit restrictions on the government's power. The rights are/were considered inalienable, i.e., god-given. It's not a list of privileges granted - and just as easily stripped - by the state.

 

[Deorum]

US system would be ideal

 

[Poon Goon]

Seems like a bunch of those New Jerseys want to carry

 

[ermac88]

In the UK, it's almost impossible to legally own anything other than a shotgun, and even then there are serious restrictions. For example, a shotgun is allowed to hold a maximum of three cartridges at any one time. If the capacity is higher, it requires a Firearms Licence, which is much more difficult to get than an SL.

The vast majority of Replica Firearms are illegal to own unless one can prove to be an Actor etc who needs one as a prop.

Britain has some of the most draconian firearms legislation in the world. Strangely, this does not prevent members of Organised Crime Groups shooting each other and, much more importantly, civilians, on a regular basis. Difficult though it is for politicians to understand, if a criminal is willing to risk a life sentence to commit murder, he won't much care that the murder weapon itself is illegal.

Of course, one positive aspect of the UK's gun laws is that school shootings almost never happen.

Our children have to knife each other to death instead.

In ALL of the UK in 2023 there were 244 murders with knives

Thats in the ENTIRE country

Same year in the US there were 1,630 murders with knives and 14k gun deaths in the US

Homicides by murder weapon in the U.S. 2023| Statista

Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 7,159 homicides in 2023.

www.statista.com

trust me Sherbro; however draconian you think it is, its better than having your little kids brains blown out in f*cking school and hearing about "thoughts and prayers"

 

[jefferz]

The rest of the world doesn't have this and can do what they want.

The rest of the first world also doesn't have to deal with all the gun violence, including school shootings, that we do.

 

[KnightTemplar]

In ALL of the UK in 2023 there were 244 murders with knives

Thats in the ENTIRE country

Same year in the US there were 1,630 murders with knives and 14k gun deaths in the US

Homicides by murder weapon in the U.S. 2023| Statista

Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 7,159 homicides in 2023.

www.statista.com

trust me Sherbro; however draconian you think it is, its better than having your little kids brains blown out in f*cking school and hearing about "thoughts and prayers"

There are less than 60 million people in the UK. North of 320 million in America. While the difference in population size is not the sole factor, it does go some way to explaining why the death toll in the US is so much higher.

We just had three kids hacked to death at a Taylor Swift dance class. And yes, the only thing our fucking politicians offered was, "thoughts and prayers".

Oh, and the same day those bairns were being cut to pieces? Four shit-bags fought a duel on a public beach. With fucking machetes. While two unarmed coppers could only stand around and watch. As helpless as the civilians who were running for their lives.

 

[Deorum]

If you don't like 2A being used for these things then what would you propose to be put in place to guarantee the rights we are talking about?

A federal statute. Some bullshit "Firearms & Self Defense Act" type thing. By all means, please do that regardless! It would be a great cherry on top, especially in regards to the latter. But I can't imagine anyone wanting to trade down in full exchange of the explicitly enumerated Constitutional right that we already possess. It doesn't possibly get any stronger than that.

 

[SammyPops]

Be patient, you’re gonna get a government soon that will undo all the nonsense.

Agreed, thought I do agree with Jordan Peterson's fears that they will take on such a mess that their govt will be short and replaced with an even more extreame left wing govt.

 

[oldshadow]

The rest of the first world also doesn't have to deal with all the gun violence, including school shootings, that we do.

That's true but the answer to reducing this is not more gun control.

 

[jefferz]

That's true but the answer to reducing this is not more gun control.

Well, more guns is obviously not working. It’s pretty easy to see that.
No other first world country has to deal with watching children get slaughtered in classrooms by people with guns.

 

[MichiganMMA1978]

I speak on this issue solely from an American perspective, and I’ve done this quite a few times in the WR.

In a nutshell: The SCOTUS has taken on more 2A cases since 2008 than they had in our entire nation’s history up to that point—and they have gotten all of them dreadfully, terribly wrong.

What I advocate in general is for the 2A to function the way it did from 1792-2008.

—The 2A is NOT meant to be incorporated to the states. The states have power to regulate firearms as they see fit, in accordance with state constitutions.
—The standard outlined in Bruen is ridiculous, sloppy, vague, and totally unworkable.

All sorts of things that the NRA and gun lobbies have convinced Americans are unconstitutional are not unconstitutional at all: e.g., safe storage laws, may-issue permits, gun registries, prohibition on certain people owning firearms, bans on certain types of weapons.

The 2A is not about individual self defense. There is no 2A right to public carry unconnected with organized militia service.

Unfortunately, SCOTUS has screwed the pooch so badly that I don’t see a way out aside from amending the Constitution. But with McDonald and then Bruen, they have doomed us to a reality where states’ hands are tied from passing common-sense laws to try and protect the citizenry.

I think Cuba would be a good fit for you...

 

[Hellowhosthat]

There are less than 60 million people in the UK. North of 320 million in America. While the difference in population size is not the sole factor, it does go some way to explaining why the death toll in the US is so much higher.

We just had three kids hacked to death at a Taylor Swift dance class. And yes, the only thing our fucking politicians offered was, "thoughts and prayers".

Oh, and the same day those bairns were being cut to pieces? Four shit-bags fought a duel on a public beach. With fucking machetes. While two unarmed coppers could only stand around and watch. As helpless as the civilians who were running for their lives.

I do think cops should probably be armed tbh. Some situations a tazer won't cut it

 

[KnightTemplar]

I do think cops should probably be armed tbh. Some situations a tazer won't cut it

Agreed. As coppers themselves say,

"When every second counts, Armed Response is only minutes away".

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Agreed. As coppers themselves say,

"When every second counts, Armed Response is only minutes away".

If it's anything like the taser they'll only use them if they really have to anyway. My mate has used a taser once in his entire police career and he had to fill in a significant amount of paperwork to justify why he used it. I think they have to justify even getting the taser out though I might be wrong about that.

 

[KnightTemplar]

If it's anything like the taser they'll only use them if they really have to anyway. My mate has used a taser once in his entire police career and he had to fill in a significant amount of paperwork to justify why he used it. I think they have to justify even getting the taser out though I might be wrong about that.

Sounds about right. There was a Met AFO who during nearly 30 years in the job shot 5 criminals, killing 3 of them. This was by far the highest body-count in the Met's history.

The majority of AFO's never fire a shot in anger.

 

[fingercuffs]

Well, more guns is obviously not working. It’s pretty easy to see that.
No other first world country has to deal with watching children get slaughtered in classrooms by people with guns.

This is what makes it so tragic, I don't know if there are other nations selling children's bulletproof backpacks.