Gsp strength of opponents is a myth

[MusterX]

I kinda don't either because I think he would have to cut done to LW to have a chance, which he might do well in. But if he stays at WW I don't think he does well.

Its difficult to say but Hughes in his prime was a tough fight man. When he fought GSP the second time he was 41-5. He's one of only 2 people to ever give GSP a loss. The guy was skilled at finishing too, not just a lay and pray wrestler. He finished 35 times. Think about that, Hughes finished more times than most fighters have in total fights. He had 20 K.O.'s and 15 submission wins.

 

[ThunderStruck]

That’s not what this thread is about.

It’s a discussion regarding the idea that GSP’s WW competition was stronger than competition faced by other champs. It often gets repeated on here and is worth a discussion.
You could read through the thread.

Don’t be so insecure.

It was definitely stronger.

You totally ignore the fact that LW and WW has twice the number of fighters than other divisions because thats what is the closest to the average size of men accross the world. So of course theres a lot more young lions coming up, twice as much actually, which makes the life much harder for veterans.

Do you really think guys like Hendo and the old ass heavyweights would have such longevity if they fought in a stacked divisions instead?

Here's a fact for you : the most competitor in a given division, the shorter the average career at the top of that division for a given competitor.

 

[tenniswhiz]

It was definitely stronger.

You totally ignore the fact that LW and WW has twice the number of fighters than other divisions because thats what is the closest to the average size of men accross the world. So of course theres a lot more young lions coming up, twice as much actually, which makes the life much harder for veterans.

Do you really think guys like Hendo and the old ass heavyweights would have such longevity if they fought in a stacked divisions instead?

Here's a fact for you : the most competitor in a given division, the shorter the average career at the top of that division for a given competitor.

You gotta go back and read the thread. You haven’t read it, from the way you’re posting.
I doubt anyone who has posted wants to retype the same stuff for you.

And you’re acting like an emotional fanboy.

 

[ThunderStruck]

You gotta go back and read the thread. You haven’t read it, from the way you’re posting.
I doubt anyone who has posted wants to retype the same stuff for you.

And you’re acting like an emotional fanboy.

I know exactly what this thread is about. It's meant to shit on GSP's level of competition on the premise that his opponents record fell after they fought GSP. You are totally ignoring my point though.

 

[Underdog bjj jp]

10/10

 

[tenniswhiz]

I know exactly what this thread is about. It's meant to shit on GSP's level of competition on the premise that his opponents record fell after they fought GSP. You are totally ignoring my point though.

I addressed your point already earlier in the thread.
I acknowledged that it could be done to Silva, Fedor, and Jones too.
It includes everyone.

Because more information is better than less.
You’d be a fool to only use information BEFORE an event and ignore information after it. It all matters.

In many cases, fighters are built up during their ascent with flattering or easy matchups.
After a failed title shot, less so.

Do I think Fedor was fighting the #7th best HW in the world when he faced Brett Rogers?
No, because of information collected afterwards.

Anyway my argument doesn’t revolve just around information after a WW fought GSP.

The entire WW division was overrated and became popular as the American division in the UFC, because most of the great fighters in heavier divisions had been taken overseas.
So a lot of American fans gravitated towards thr WW story.
For these same reasons, it became overpopulated by wrestlers, extreme weight cutters, and 10-9 artists.
It must have hurt when Matt Hughes and Pat Miletich, the “greatest WW’s of the time” got destroyed by Pele Landi. And Pele proceeded to go over to Pride, lose to DAIJIRO MATSUI who’s record was 2-6 when he fought Pele.

GSP was one of The greatest fighters ever.
However, his entire division was extremely overrated. It’s overrated by his fanboys on this forum, and by UFC shills.
It was absolutely ridiculous to have Thiago Alves or Jon Fitch listed Top 10 P4P.
Either way, winning that many fights in a row is a phenomenal achievement.

I’ve retyped an argument for your lazy ass.
Now go back and read the thread.

 

[Colin]

Matt Hughes would be a top fighter but he may not be a goat if he started today. Do I think matt could beat usman, woodley, Colby and till? Absolutely. But I also could see them being bigger and better strikers and winning on that alone. His wrestling was amazing. Hughes prime was a top level guy all time.

While im not so sure about Hughes, you could be right.

The problem is that mma fans seem to forget how good a fighter was in their prime because of how they looked when out of their prime. Which is silly really. It happens less in football for example. People don't forget how good of a footballer someone was because they lost a step further into their career. This happens to mma fighters constantly. Just wait a few years and Jones will be out of his prime and no doubt overrated too..

 

[ThunderStruck]

I addressed your point already earlier in the thread.
I acknowledged that it could be done to Silva, Fedor, and Jones too.
It includes everyone.

Because more information is better than less.
You’d be a fool to only use information BEFORE an event and ignore information after it. It all matters.

In many cases, fighters are built up during their ascent with flattering or easy matchups.
After a failed title shot, less so.

Do I think Fedor was fighting the #7th best HW in the world when he faced Brett Rogers?
No, because of information collected afterwards.

Anyway my argument doesn’t revolve just around information after a WW fought GSP.

The entire WW division was overrated and became popular as the American division in the UFC, because most of the great fighters in heavier divisions had been taken overseas.
So a lot of American fans gravitated towards thr WW story.
For these same reasons, it became overpopulated by wrestlers, extreme weight cutters, and 10-9 artists.
It must have hurt when Matt Hughes and Pat Miletich, the “greatest WW’s of the time” got destroyed by Pele Landi. And Pele proceeded to go over to Pride, lose to DAIJIRO MATSUI who’s record was 2-6 when he fought Pele.

GSP was one of The greatest fighters ever.
However, his entire division was extremely overrated. It’s overrated by his fanboys on this forum, and by UFC shills.
It was absolutely ridiculous to have Thiago Alves or Jon Fitch listed Top 10 P4P.
Either way, winning that many fights in a row is a phenomenal achievement.

I’ve retyped an argument for your lazy ass.
Now go back and read the thread.

Your premise that this division is overrated is where you fail to understand my point.

I've seen your post where you list every fighters next 5 fights against the champ and you compare GSP's opponents with Anderson Silva's.

But you're too dumb to understand the point im making, which is that the WW division has twice the amount of fighters which means veterans are obviously going to fall out faster than a weak division like MW was back then.

Fact is careers at LW and WW are notorious for not lasting long unless you are a long, dominating reigning champ because the competition is harder. Which makes dominating these divisions that much more prestigious.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Your premise that this division is overrated is where you fail to understand my point.

I've seen your post where you list every fighters next 5 fights against the champ and you compare GSP's opponents with Anderson Silva's.

But you're too dumb to understand the point im making, which is that the WW division has twice the amount of fighters which means veterans are obviously going to fall out faster than a weak division like MW was back then.

Fact is careers at LW and WW are notorious for not lasting long unless you are a long, dominating reigning champ because the competition is harder. Which makes dominating these divisions that much more prestigious.

Please find this post in which I allegedly listed the next 5 opponents of GSP’s and Silva’s opponents.
Because that’s not my post.

I advised you to go back and read the thread and you still obviously haven’t done that.
Immature feeble minded twerp that you are.

And you called me “dumb”.

Stop posting.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Ppl who say Silva should have fought at 170 are people who have never competed in their lives. You want him to drain himself to the lowest weight possible so he can gas out in half a round and get knocked out with a jab? Just because he weighed 170 at one point in his life doesn't mean he can compete there anymore. I bet you he weighed 120lb as a freshman in high school too, why not just have him fight at flyweight? It's OK to be a fan of one fighter or to have a bias but please call it like it is, you can not denie that GSP didn't duck Silva and cherry pick an easy fight at MW then dissappear with some bullshit excuse.

People who think a competitor should go up or down in weight for the convenience of another fighter are similarly delusional. Either weight divisions exist for a reason or they don't. Competitors know this. Its why they dehydrate 20+ pounds to fight in their optimal weight division -- and anyone who thinks anyone water cuts just for fun has never competed. Fans think weight is just a number. Competitors know better.

Personally I think they're artificial -- if hockey, football (NA and the rest of the world version), basketball, and 99% of sports get by fine without weight divisions, if every combat sport started without weight divisions (look it up, boxing, wrestling, judo, BJJ, MMA, sambo all started and went decades (or even millennia for wrestling) without weight divisions, its hard to see them as anything but a marketing ploy. But if you're going to have weight divisions, then its silly to expect fighters to leave their weight division because it'd make it easier on their opponent to fight at a different weight. That applies equally to GSP and Anderson. If one of them had saved the other one's life a good case could be made that he owed it to him to make his life easier by changing to his weight division. Otherwise its silly -- why give your competitor an advantage?

Ideally there'd be no weight divisions, and GSP and Anderson would fight without any weigh-in. Of course it wouldn't be a title fight (they're both too small to be the no-weight division champ, just like a 5'6" guy is just too short to be an NBA MVP, but size is part of sport).

But if there are weight divisions, its nonsense to say someone is ducking someone not in their weight division. Otherwise the term becomes meaningless -- GSP ducked Anderson and every other MW, every LHW, every HW. Anderson ducked Jones, Shogun, Liddell and 90% of LHW's, and of course every HW. Jones ducked every HW.

You can't duck someone not in your weight division. Anderson didn't duck GSP by not going down to 170 because Anderson fought at 185. GSP didn't duck Anderson by not going to 185 because GSP fought at 170. Get rid of weight divisions lack back when UFC started and we can start talking about ducking.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Please find this post in which I allegedly listed the next 5 opponents of GSP’s and Silva’s opponents.
Because that’s not my post.

I advised you to go back and read the thread and you still obviously haven’t done that.
Immature feeble minded twerp that you are.

And you called me “dumb”.

Stop posting.

Apparently Im confusing you with GrimBaller, my bad.

 

[Alpha_T83]

I'm sick and tired of reading page after page about gsp having the toughest schedule of fights ever.

You guys know that condit went 2-7 after fighting gsp?
Jake sheilds went 7-6-1 after fighting gsp
kos went 2-8 after fighting gsp
thiago alves went 6-7 after fighting gsp
Hendricks went 2-6 after fighting Georges.

This is a total.farce that he had some crazy storied career where he faced killers. He fought every single.one of these guys on their downward spiral.

Enough of this bs making Georges legacy seem like its something that it obviously is not.

Hey TS, BJ penn is on a 6 fight losing streak. So he was never that good in his prime right?

I mean this is your retarded logic, so it must be true.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Hey TS, BJ penn is on a 6 fight losing streak. So he was never that good in his prime right?

I mean this is your retarded logic, so it must be true.

Owned with his own logic, i like it.

 

[Ozze]

Lol with a username like @bjpenngoat it's no wonder your salty

"To the death Georges"

 

[bjpenngoat]

Great a string of useless posts blasting bj Penn. am I making up the records of every gsp opponent after he fought them?

 

[Juzie]

Great a string of useless posts blasting bj Penn. am I making up the records of every gsp opponent after he fought them?

You're ignoring the fact that nearly all fighters end their career with a bunch of losses... quite often their career tends to decline after their first really big loss. This is a sign of how dominant GSP became. The BJ Penn fights are a perfect example of that...BJ bounced back fine from his close loss to GSP but looked like all his passion was gone after the 2nd fight where he got beaten down pretty badly.

I don't even like GSP he's boring AF but he's 4th best of all time at the absolute worst position you can place him.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Great a string of useless posts blasting bj Penn. am I making up the records of every gsp opponent after he fought them?

By your logic, BJ Penn was never good and always overrated. Confirmed.

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

All you've done is confirm that GSP destroyed great fighters and they were never the same after he beat them.

He hugged a lot of those guys to a decision lol

 

[samoajoe]

Spoken like a true MMA fan who started watching in 2017.

GSP fought the top 3 fighters in his weight class for a decade straight.

 

[bjpenngoat]

Bj was great. Gsp was great as well. I have not once said that gsp was a scrub. I'm saying that his level of comp has been vastly overrated. I do not believe he is the goat. Gsp built his legacy on good fighters some great all on their way down. Not one guy he faced went on to have a winning record. There's something to that. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with bj Penn. Bj sucks now. He has sucked for 7 years. The last time he looked good was the first round against Fitch. What is the obsession with you gsp apologists lambasting bj Penn.