Greatest of All Time update

[Lostcow]

He's ahead of them when it comes to record against ranked opponents who held UFC gold.

Fedor: 7-0

GSP: 5-2

Anderson: 4-2

Are you including Tim Sylvia in that?

 

[ferrisjso]

Jones is a HW fighting at LHW. He ran into another HW fighting at LHW, Gustaffson, and got beat up.

When Jones finally moves up to HW like he's hinted at so many times, he'll realize what Fedor had to deal with so many times. He'll be in a whole different world where every punch can knock you out cold and where he can't bully people with his size or keep them at arm's length like a big brother.

As long as Jones or Gus is under 205 pounds they are a LHW regardless of their height and reach. While Gus certainly was the toughest opponent Jones fought Jones still snatched victory from the jaws of defeat with the elbow in the fourth and nearly finished Gus while the same cant be said for Gus. Also in HW Jones still has a reach advantage over every fighter in the division. Why should Jones move to HW if he can make LHW it doesn't make any sense.

 

[trident]

Well, he did win 3 out of the 5 rounds (imho) and won the championship round when the title was up for grabs.

It was a split decision, a fight where he got his ass kicked in many places, but he worked hard and squeaked out a victory. It wasn't a great win, though, it was a "I just barely saved my ass" win.

 

[MikeyLan]

Are you including Tim Sylvia in that?

Yes. He was ranked #4 when Fedor beat him.

 

[MikeyLan]

As long as Jones or Gus is under 205 pounds they are a LHW regardless of their height and reach. While Gus certainly was the toughest opponent Jones fought Jones still snatched victory from the jaws of defeat with the elbow in the fourth and nearly finished Gus while the same cant be said for Gus. Also in HW Jones still has a reach advantage over every fighter in the division. Why should Jones move to HW if he can make LHW it doesn't make any sense.

Jones is a natural HW (with the height and reach of one too) cutting to LHW. Hendo and Lindland weighed above 205 against Fedor. Doesn't make them natural heavyweights. Fedor is a natural LHW. He only weighs in at HW because he keeps tire of fat around his midsection.

 

[Squarechoke]

He's ahead of them when it comes to record against ranked opponents who held UFC gold.

Fedor: 7-0

GSP: 5-2

Anderson: 4-2

Now you really showed what kind of poster you are. Talk about bending over to find some criteria to suit your argument.

Of course you won't care about things like that this includes fighting a guy that had 1 low level win in 3 years when Fedor beat him, or that Fedor lost to Dan Henderson, who was ranked and has won a UFC championship (tournament).

 

[Hedwig]

Good to see Fedor on top as should he be. A true champion in and outside the ring.

 

[supernova]

Now you really showed what kind of poster you are. Talk about bending over to find some criteria to suit your argument.

Of course you won't care about things like that this includes fighting a guy that had 1 low level win in 3 years when Fedor beat him, or that Fedor lost to Dan Henderson, who was ranked and has won a UFC championship (tournament).

Stop taking it so serious GOAT is a matter of opinion.

 

[MikeyLan]

Now you really showed what kind of poster you are. Talk about bending over to find some criteria to suit your argument.

Of course you won't care about things like that this includes fighting a guy that had 1 low level win in 3 years when Fedor beat him, or that Fedor lost to Dan Henderson, who was ranked and has won a UFC championship (tournament).

You're doing the same when you're only focusing on the ranking of opponents, not how the fights played out (decision vs finish) or how the opponents measured up against each other size-wise.

Henderson never held UFC gold. He had two chances and failed both.

 

[Insaniteus]

Anderson.

He owns almost every significant UFC record, and made top 10 fighters look like jokes. He has finishes using just about every technique and limb in all of MMA. He has way more top 10 wins than anyone except for GSP, who just passed him with his "win" over Hendricks.

 

[Mr. Fresca]

You can't arbitrarily pick and choose statistics and ignore other aspects of a career and tell other people they are wrong.

I often hear the argument that GSP has the most top 5 wins. Maybe he does. But he also dwells in a division with a much higher turnover in talent. It isn't Fedor's fault that Big Nog and CroCop stayed in the top 3 for years and years beating the shit out of everyone else. WW top 5 is a revolving door. GSP also gets credit for a win over a ranked Serra, although Serra was only ranked because HE BEAT GSP.

Did Fedor fight cans once in awhile? Absolutely. But he also cleaned out the division. At the time, Barnett was the only top HW that he wasn't able to face, and that was Barnett's fault. Fedor would have murdered Couture imo. And when Fedor did fight cans, he smashed them. GSP was KO'd by Serra and Anderson has baffling losses to Takase and Chonan.

GOAT ranking comes down to subjective value given to different aspects of a career. To me, I weigh duration very heavily, hence I go with Fedor. Someone who weighs competition heavily may lean towards GSP, and I can understand that. My weighing of duration leads me to not even consider Jones as of yet. Someday, sure. Someone who doesn't give much negative value to losses may go with a guy like Hendo. I disagree, but such is the nature of GOAT interpretation.

 

[MikeyLan]

Anderson.

He owns almost every significant UFC record, and made top 10 fighters look like jokes. He has finishes using just about every technique and limb in all of MMA. He has way more top 10 wins than anyone except for GSP, who just passed him with his "win" over Hendricks.

And for every one of his non-top 10 losses, you can remove 3 of his top 10 wins. How's he doing after that?

 

[Squarechoke]

You're doing the same when you're only focusing on the ranking of opponents, not how the fights played out (decision vs finish) or how the opponents measured up against each other size-wise.

Henderson never held UFC gold. He had two chances and failed both.

Me bringing up ranked opponents was generous to Fedor since his have more asterisks to them than the other two's when it comes to timing in the careers etc. When it comes to finishes Anderson would be the best. Fedor didn't finish his strongest opponents either. Why would I bring up size in a sport with weight classes? I'm not stupid. People fight in the weight class that suits them the best (although some smaller guys have been forced to go higher as there hasn't always been lots of smaller classes).

He's still a champion under the UFC banner with his tournament championship. This is exposing how minute details you're willing to bend to form an argument.

 

[MikeyLan]

You can't arbitrarily pick and choose statistics and ignore other aspects of a career and tell other people they are wrong.

I often hear the argument that GSP has the most top 5 wins. Maybe he does. But he also dwells in a division with a much higher turnover in talent. It isn't Fedor's fault that Big Nog and CroCop stayed in the top 3 for years and years beating the shit out of everyone else. WW top 5 is a revolving door. GSP also gets credit for a win over a ranked Serra, although Serra was only ranked because HE BEAT GSP.

Did Fedor fight cans once in awhile? Absolutely. But he also cleaned out the division. At the time, Barnett was the only top HW that he wasn't able to face, and that was Barnett's fault. Fedor would have murdered Couture imo. And when Fedor did fight cans, he smashed them. GSP was KO'd by Serra and Anderson has baffling losses to Takase and Chonan.

GOAT ranking comes down to subjective value given to different aspects of a career. To me, I weigh duration very heavily, hence I go with Fedor. Someone who weighs competition heavily may lean towards GSP, and I can understand that. My weighing of duration leads me to not even consider Jones as of yet. Someday, sure. Someone who doesn't give much negative value to losses may go with a guy like Hendo. I disagree, but such is the nature of GOAT interpretation.

Well said.

 

[MitMcl]

And for every one of his non-top 10 losses, you can remove 3 of his top 10 wins. How's he doing after that?

What a ridiculous post. It's people like you who ruined Fedor for me.

 

[supernova]

Me bringing up ranked opponents was generous to Fedor since his have more asterisks to them than the other two's when it comes to timing in the careers etc. When it comes to finishes Anderson would be the best. Fedor didn't finish his strongest opponents either. Why would I bring up size in a sport with weight classes? I'm not stupid. People fight in the weight class that suits them the best (although some smaller guys have been forced to go higher as there hasn't always been lots of smaller classes).

He's still a champion under the UFC banner with his tournament championship. This is exposing how minute details you're willing to bend to form an argument.

So Fedor didn't finish the best guys he fought? Anderson didn't finish Welterweight Demian Maia.

How's about those minute details?

 

[Foolish]

No Cain?

 

[MikeyLan]

Me bringing up ranked opponents was generous to Fedor since his have more asterisks to them than the other two's when it comes to timing in the careers etc. When it comes to finishes Anderson would be the best.

Last time I checked Fedor and Ando were tied. But Anderson was finished himself more than Fedor.

He's still a champion under the UFC banner with his tournament championship. This is exposing how minute details you're willing to bend to form an argument.

Hendo won a tournament, he was never UFC champion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFC_champions
Or check the article Sherdog did on UFC champions.

You're the one trying to "bend" Hendo into being a UFC champion, lol.

 

[Squarechoke]

You can't arbitrarily pick and choose statistics and ignore other aspects of a career and tell other people they are wrong.

I often hear the argument that GSP has the most top 5 wins. Maybe he does. But he also dwells in a division with a much higher turnover in talent. It isn't Fedor's fault that Big Nog and CroCop stayed in the top 3 for years and years beating the shit out of everyone else. WW top 5 is a revolving door. GSP also gets credit for a win over a ranked Serra, although Serra was only ranked because HE BEAT GSP.

Did Fedor fight cans once in awhile? Absolutely. But he also cleaned out the division. At the time, Barnett was the only top HW that he wasn't able to face, and that was Barnett's fault. Fedor would have murdered Couture imo. And when Fedor did fight cans, he smashed them. GSP was KO'd by Serra and Anderson has baffling losses to Takase and Chonan.

GOAT ranking comes down to subjective value given to different aspects of a career. To me, I weigh duration very heavily, hence I go with Fedor. Someone who weighs competition heavily may lean towards GSP, and I can understand that. My weighing of duration leads me to not even consider Jones as of yet. Someday, sure. Someone who doesn't give much negative value to losses may go with a guy like Hendo. I disagree, but such is the nature of GOAT interpretation.

You can certainly remove some ranked fighters, like Serra, when you compare number of ranked wins. Fedor will probably be the one that loses the most from that though, as he has some of his ranked wins taking place at very advantageous points in their careers.

And you don't clean out the division through beating most and then have a fan speculate how the rest would go. You clean out the division by beating everyone. It's not always fair in how those opportunities are but that's the way fighting is. Fedor was the best, but he didn't actually clean out the division.

As for losses, those of course count. I think it's far more important to have big wins than it is to retire undefeated though. Hendo isn't a good choice for GOAT imo since he's not really even been at the top of a weight class.

 

[Its Me Austin]

title defenses
Anderson 10
GSP 9
Fedor 3 (or 5 if you count WAMMA)

top 10 wins (LINK)
GSP 17
Anderson 16
Fedor 12