Greatest of All Time update

[ferrisjso]

Jones is a natural HW (with the height and reach of one too) cutting to LHW. Hendo and Lindland weighed above 205 against Fedor. Doesn't make them natural heavyweights. Fedor is a natural LHW. He only weighs in at HW because he keeps tire of fat around his midsection.

It only matters what someone weighs on fight night not the day before and not the day after.

 

[supernova]

You managed to both be irrelevant and hypocritical. Well done, chap.

I said good day cur.

 

[Squarechoke]

I said good day cur.

You read it too soon. I hadn't had time to add the third error yet. Your dismissal needs a comma to get it's proper classy tone too.

 

[yeahhh]

anderson and gsp are viable answers

but fedor for me. And anyone saying shit like "fedor was never that great" or that he doesnt deserve to be on the list...really wasnt watching mma 2003-2007

 

[Skylar19]

I'm still gonna go with Anderson

HM: Fedor

 

[ayiio]

To me it's GSP based on his opponents and his dominance but Silva and Fedor are also legitimate choice . They just got out on a down note (which is a shame actually) .

 

[Beer Fist]

Fedor, hands down.

 

[Boom_Ba_Ye]

Emelianenko Fedor. Jones, if he keeps doing what he is doing will probably surpass him.

Anderson has suffered too many embarrassing losses to be number 1.

 

[MikeyLan]

You clarified it with your link that states that Dan Henderson is a UFC Tournament Champion. Ergo I was right to point it out.

Yes. Like I said, he won a tournament. He was never champion. I pointed you to that link because it shows Hendo only in the tournament list, not up in the championship brackets.

What you meant isn't really relevant either since my main point was that you constructed a minor statistic that no one talks about and tried to pass it off as being as common as general rankings.

And my point was that you can keep looking at things in isolation. More top 10 wins is not necessarily better. You have to look at the big picture. I gave you an even smaller picture to prove a point. That you can skew things by conveniently "zooming in".

But let me explain further. People like to point to GSP's resume and say he had a crazy tough schedule. But Fedor in his prime often fought 5 times within the span of a year.

How is fighting 1 or 2 solid/ranked opponents a year (like GSP) tougher than fighting 2 solid/ranked opponents IN ADDITION to 3 filler (although usually much bigger) opponents in the SAME time span?

See, that's looking at the big picture. When you just point to Fedor's "filler opponents" in isolation, you're skewing things. 2 solid + 3 filler within roughly 12 months is a lot harder to overcome than just 2 solid.

Finishes are decided by the rules, not what you would have been able to do in a street fight. A finish includes the referee or the doctor deeming you unable to continue for your own safety according to the rules.

I don't look at it quite so black-and-white. I take the context into consideration when looking at a result. I don't consider Hamill's win over Jones a win either. Anderson was finished. Fedor was not. The doctor just wouldn't let him continue. A different doctor might have (see GSP-Koscheck fight where Koscheck was allowed to continue with an even worse eye).

 

[Boom_Ba_Ye]

Lack of elite competition(minus Big Nog and Cro Crop) is a blemish in my book when we're talking about who the greatest is. Also got KO'd by Hendo and Bigfoot and subbed by Werdum.

Beats getting subbed by Takase, Chonnan, decisioned by Azeredo and KO'd by Weidman.

 

[MikeyLan]

To me it's GSP based on his opponents and his dominance but Silva and Fedor are also legitimate choice . They just got out on a down note (which is a shame actually) .

GSP went out on a loss too in my eyes. And in the majority of people's eyes here according to a Sherdog poll.

 

[xn7]

pretty confused how dan is on there. or jones.

 

[chaoticmayhem]

GSP based on level of competition and length of time he was dominant.

 

[Squarechoke]

Yes. Like I said, he won a tournament. He was never champion. I pointed you to that link because it shows Hendo only in the tournament list, not up in the championship brackets.

He was a tournament champion, not a divisional champion. Both are champions, hence why they are both listed on the page named "list of UFC champions". You should have been more clear when you constructed your little fringe criteria that really only managed hurt Fedor since it looks like you think he needs such arguments to seem great (which he definitely doesn't).

And my point was that you can keep looking at things in isolation. More top 10 wins is not necessarily better. You have to look at the big picture. I gave you an even smaller picture to prove a point. That you can skew things by conveniently "zooming in".

But let me explain further. People like to point to GSP's resume and say he had a crazy tough schedule. But Fedor in his prime often fought 5 times within the span of a year.

How is fighting 1 or 2 solid/ranked opponents a year (like GSP) tougher than fighting 2 solid/ranked opponents IN ADDITION to 3 filler (although usually much bigger) opponents in the SAME time span?

See, that's looking at the big picture.

I'm open to discussing criteria, but the reason why I mentioned rankings is because that's more objective of me. The rankings are generally done by some form of consensus which I'm not part of, and rankings are a very commonly talked about thing so I'm not dragging up something obscure. Personally I find some people on all three guys' lists that aren't great, or didn't deserve their ranking.

As for your example I personally don't think the filler matters much. That's the kind of opponents that these guys walk out of off-season training and beat easily. It's of course a bit hard to compare though since MMA wasn't as developed 7-10 years ago as it is now.

For me Fedor is great for the big fights he won and how good he was in his time. His undefeated streak always ranked fairly low among his own accomplishments for me.

I don't look at it quite so black-and-white. I take the context into consideration when looking at a result. I don't consider Hamill's win over Jones a win either. Anderson was finished. Fedor was not. The doctor just wouldn't let him continue. A different doctor might have (see GSP-Koscheck fight where Koscheck was allowed to continue with an even worse eye).

That's the kind of subjectivity I try to avoid when discussing this with many people (it's still subjective but there are degrees). I go by what the rules say so I know I'm being correct about it.

Fedor vs Bigfoot was a good stoppage to me. People that claim that Bigfoot was gassed and that Fedor would have won are very biased since Bigfoot didn't even breath out of his mouth when the fight was stopped, but Fedor still did. Anderson's most recent stoppage is really a freak accident, despite the intentions in the moment. That said I think Weidman would have won anyway, just as I thought in the first fight (but not by KO). The most questionable is Fedor's cut stoppage, but the stoppage rules are about safety, not really about hurting your opponent.

Being reminded of the Koscheck fight always makes me angry. That doctor was horrible and now Kos has permanent nerve damage in his face (and the worst part is that Kos was still kind of lucky compared to what could have happened). I don't care the least about the result of the fight, this is solely about safety.

But now I have to leave.

 

[MikeyLan]

He was a tournament champion, not a divisional champion. Both are champions, hence why they are both listed on the page named "list of UFC champions". You should have been more clear when you constructed your little fringe criteria that really only managed hurt Fedor since it looks like you think he needs such arguments to seem great (which he definitely doesn't).

The TUF champs and tournament champs are listed at the bottom as side trivia. Or do you really mean to tell me that that TUF winners held UFC gold/championship?

Next you'll be telling me sea cows are cows too.

Anyway...

I'm open to discussing criteria, but the reason why I mentioned rankings is because that's more objective of me. The rankings are generally done by some form of consensus which I'm not part of, and rankings are a very commonly talked about thing so I'm not dragging up something obscure. Personally I find some people on all three guys' lists that aren't great, or didn't deserve their ranking.

As for your example I personally don't think the filler matters much. That's the kind of opponents that these guys walk out of off-season training and beat easily. It's of course a bit hard to compare though since MMA wasn't as developed 7-10 years ago as it is now.

I think Anderson and GSP losing to filler shows us that anything can happen. JDS lost to a filler. Bigfoot lost to a filler. Cain almost got knocked out by Kongo who's pretty mediocre. And the more you fight, the more injuries you generally accumulate and the harder it gets. Fedor broke his hands on many a filler opponent for example and didn't always have a lot of time to recuperate. Fedor's schedule at its toughest was tougher than GSP's at its toughest. Especially when you factor in that he was winning world championshions in another high-contact combat sport on the side. By comparison, GSP has been resting on his laurels lol.

That's the kind of subjectivity I try to avoid when discussing this with many people (it's still subjective but there are degrees). I go by what the rules say so I know I'm being correct about it.

So you don't consider Jones undefeated?

 

[Steve08]

Voted Fedor, but Sakuraba should be a poll option if Hendo is.

 

[ayiio]

GSP went out on a loss too in my eyes. And in the majority of people's eyes here according to a Sherdog poll.

Even if you think a square is a circle long enough or you get a few others to think like you , it still won't make it a circle . Fact is he won , fact is he's the champ . Nothing can't change that and in 10 years , when no one will remember who Hendricks was , everyone will still remember GSP as the champ who retire on top (unless he come back and get a legit loss which I doubt but could happen) .
Deal with it .

 

[MikeyLan]

Even if you think a square is a circle long enough or you get a few others to think like you , it still won't make it a circle . Fact is he won , fact is he's the champ . Nothing can't change that and in 10 years , when no one will remember who Hendricks was , everyone will still remember GSP as the champ who retire on top (unless he come back and get a legit loss which I doubt but could happen) .
Deal with it .

Fact is he's not the champ. He vacated his title.

You probably believe Hamill defeated Jones too because his record says so.

GSP tucked tail and ran from the sport after being delivered a beating.

At least Fedor retired on a highlight reel knockout win.

 

[Richard Fannin]

Fedor Emelianenko 620 54.67%

Nice to see that Sherdog still has respect for the GOAT.

 

[Richard Fannin]

To me it's GSP based on his opponents and his dominance but Silva and Fedor are also legitimate choice . They just got out on a down note (which is a shame actually) .

I love GSP but he didn't really go out on a high note either...
(I know he beat Hendricks, but it wasn't a dominant performance at all)

Also, Fedor all the way.
I feel sorry for the newer fans who didn't have the privilege to watch him fight in him prime.

GSP is my n