Greatest Muay Thai Fighters of All Time, as voted by Thai Legends

i thought that Saenchai got the matrix shit from Lerdsila at Jocky gym?
Most of the Jocky Gym guys that I've seen have got quite an evasive style - Pipa taught Saenchai + Silipathai and gave them that tricky femur style, I think but I don't know for sure that he taught Lerdsila too - the timeline matches up for it but I've never read/heard anything concrete that says he did
 
I'm skeptical of the belief fighters such as Somrak, Samart and Dieselnoi were "forced" to retire or go to boxing because they ran out of opponents. Dieselnoi retired at an age that is common for top fighters to retire; Samart used his MT credentials and (I assume) promotional backing to get fast-tracked to a "world" title in boxing; Somrak's gold medal brought his fame and wealth that a long MT career never would have.

Something I'd be really interested in knowing about is the evolution of weight advantages to satisfy the gambling interest. For example, was Dieselnoi drying up to 132 to make his lightweight title fights? Was Somrak made to lose an extra 2 or 3 pounds every fight? If Somrak and Samart ran out of challengers, why not continue going up like Saenchai did?

If weight advantages weren't the norm for previous generations, I think it makes Saenchai the GOAT by a wide margin.
Dieselnoi got KOed in a boxing match , Somrak was always skilled at boxing since his early days , Samart was a genius so he made the transition easily and won a boxing title .
Samart went up in weigh and got KOed by Paruhadlek , Dieselnoi almost fought Rob Kaman .

Those guy couldn't find fights at all so they went to boxing or up in weigh .
Saenchai always has fights because he played by the stadium and gambling rules .
No way Samart or Somrak would lose to a guy like Petchboonchu for several time even if Petch was a few pounds bigger .
Fighters were way better back then .
 
I know that Dieselnoi tried to kill himself after a few years of not being able to fight. I don't know about Somrak and Samart (I hadn't really heard much about why they retired) but it's not a stretch to me that the guy who only lost twice was not able to get a fight booked, maybe not forced in any formal sense - but possibly that he just went through months of trying to book fights and not being able to get them for who he is.

It isn't uncommon for fighters to experience bad depression after retiring, for sure, but he still seems to be mad about having to retire even now


I'd also like to know this too - there was an interview with Samart, I posted here a good few years ago. Where he said that gambling had killed the sport - that in the very least implies that it was very different back then

If Sylvie's translation is correct, Namkabuan implied that fights were pretty much rigged also back in his days. Essentially he claimed that it was essential for a camp to have a big bettor behind his fighter to lean on judges. He implied that if your fighter had a big "influencer" against him, that odds were that the judges were likely to make him lose at the slightest pretext.

Not my opinion (WTF would I know about that), but what I read on that "watch with the fighter" vid.

I thought it was a pretty massive allegation TBH, lol.
 
Dieselnoi got KOed in a boxing match , Somrak was always skilled at boxing since his early days , Samart was a genius so he made the transition easily and won a boxing title .
Samart went up in weigh and got KOed by Paruhadlek , Dieselnoi almost fought Rob Kaman .

Those guy couldn't find fights at all so they went to boxing or up in weigh .
Saenchai always has fights because he played by the stadium and gambling rules .
No way Samart or Somrak would lose to a guy like Petchboonchu for several time even if Petch was a few pounds bigger .
Fighters were way better back then .

SOrry are you implying that Saenchai took dives "to play by the stadium and gambling rules"? Not sure I catch your drift.
 
I'm skeptical of the belief fighters such as Somrak, Samart and Dieselnoi were "forced" to retire or go to boxing because they ran out of opponents. Dieselnoi retired at an age that is common for top fighters to retire; Samart used his MT credentials and (I assume) promotional backing to get fast-tracked to a "world" title in boxing; Somrak's gold medal brought his fame and wealth that a long MT career never would have.

Something I'd be really interested in knowing about is the evolution of weight advantages to satisfy the gambling interest. For example, was Dieselnoi drying up to 132 to make his lightweight title fights? Was Somrak made to lose an extra 2 or 3 pounds every fight? If Somrak and Samart ran out of challengers, why not continue going up like Saenchai did?

If weight advantages weren't the norm for previous generations, I think it makes Saenchai the GOAT by a wide margin.
The "belief" you're talking about didn't appear out of thin air. All the information we have comes from the fighters themselves and has never been refuted.

Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu, who knows Dielselnoi more than anyone from meeting him in person and reading everything that can be found on the man, wrote:
Above is an video excerpt from an 18 minute interview I did with the immortal Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn, the greatest knee fighter in history, who ultimately was stripped of his Lumpinee Belt and forced into an early retirement because nobody would fight him.
https://8limbsus.com/patreon-supporter-content/interview-dieselnoi-state-muay-thai

Dieselnoi himself also said he didn't want to retire:
I became a coach when I was 24, as far as if I have any regrets in the ring, I got tired of fighting. Lol., this is a joke, I wanted to fight more but there were no opponents. I wasn’t sure if I could fight or not, but I still practiced everyday, for many years, no one would like that right? So I gave up.
https://8limbsus.com/muay-thai-thailand/a-short-biography-of-dieselnoi-chor-thanasukarn

If you have any evidence that Dieselnoi and Sylvie are lying, please share it with us so we can make sure your opinion is based on facts rather than emotion and speculation.
 
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Somrak was never given a title shot because no one wanna bet against him or at least no to the point were a matchup will make sense .
Samart got shipped to boxing because he made everyone look like amateurs .
Somrak same thing , too skilled .
Muay Thai run on gambling , a fighter that is too good is not worth betting against .
Saenchai for example was never near Somrak he got out clinched and can even be in close fights ( when his opponent are a few pounds up ) .
Somrak made some of the greatest golden era legends look lost against him .
Sanechai never did that .
Nobody has reached the same level of domination as Samart, Dieselnoi and Somrak. They are the 3 best muay thai fighters of all time in my book.
 
Dieselnoi's career trajectory is weird and probably has more to do with his involvement with Klaew Thanikul than anything else. He seemed to be part of Klaew's PR project, as the manager of the best fighter in Thailand, so fighting or especially beating Dieselnoi might have backfired.

Sylvie starts talking about this about 16mins in, talking specifically about Klaew killing the Hapalang gym owner over some dispute.
 
There are other sources but they all say the same thing. At this point, I'm leaning more towards the story being true rather than the existence of some global conspiracy orchestrated by invisible superpowers trying to rewrite history.

This is from the official website of Singpatong Sitnumnoi gym in Thailand:

When Somrak reached 18 years old, he had more than 200 bouts under his name. But despite his remarkable ability, Lumpini championship win evaded him. Even at the smaller Rajadamnern Stadium, Somrak never became a champion. Somrak was considered a prohibitive favorite which caused the big gamblers to lose interest in him. The promoters did not want to risk their prospects against him. Somrak suddenly found himself out of job and he could not support himself.
http://www.singpatong-sitnumnoi.com/art-of-muay-thai/

I also wanna add that the second link I posted is an interview of Somrak himself, who is certainly the most reliable source on this matter. If somebody was to investigate Somrak's career, who would be the first person they'd talk to? Somrak himself, right? Well, Somrak has spoken and this is what he said. I don't think it's fair to qualify his words as mere "couple of lines thrown out there on the internet".

It's also important to note that each link contains information that the others don't provide, which shows they are not just plagiarizing one another.

The point about Muay Thai internet legends is that they could've been invented/played up/misinterpreted by someone who wrote a top ten goats article on siamfightnews or other seminal Muay Thai site and due to lack of information the other half a dozen people who follow Muay Thai took it on their word.

not that there is a global conspiracy or superpowers playing the strings from above. there is no history to rewrite. Muay Thai history (in English) is written right here at f42 <Moves>
 
The "belief" you're talking about didn't appear out of thin air. All the information we have comes from the fighters themselves and has never been refuted.

Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu, who knows Dielselnoi more than anyone from meeting him in person and reading everything that can be found on the man, wrote:
Above is an video excerpt from an 18 minute interview I did with the immortal Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn, the greatest knee fighter in history, who ultimately was stripped of his Lumpinee Belt and forced into an early retirement because nobody would fight him.
https://8limbsus.com/patreon-supporter-content/interview-dieselnoi-state-muay-thai

Dieselnoi himself also said he didn't want to retire:
I became a coach when I was 24, as far as if I have any regrets in the ring, I got tired of fighting. Lol., this is a joke, I wanted to fight more but there were no opponents. I wasn’t sure if I could fight or not, but I still practiced everyday, for many years, no one would like that right? So I gave up.
https://8limbsus.com/muay-thai-thailand/a-short-biography-of-dieselnoi-chor-thanasukarn

If you have any evidence that Dieselnoi and Sylvie are lying, please share it with us so we can make sure your opinion is based on facts rather than emotion and speculation.

If this is true it would indicate fighters of that era didn't have to put up with the weight advantages of today's fighters. He never would've been "forced" into retirement if that was happening.

And having no opponents seems a bit strange, no? You'd think it wouldn't take long for challengers to emerge in a sport that isn't stagnant, especially during a period where the fighters were innately just so much better than the junk that would follow in the 21st century.

To continue my speculation: I think a reason for Dieselnoi retiring was he physically outgrew the competitive weight areas, so in a sense I believe he was forced to retire.
 
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I remember a while ago Sylvie also commented that in modern MT weight advantages don't really go above 2-3 kg but in the golden age it was common for them to be more than this. It could explain why Dieselnoi had to retire, no high level guys bigger than him. And also I never knew he fought Rob Kaman, Im guessing Dieselnoi won?
 
I remember a while ago Sylvie also commented that in modern MT weight advantages don't really go above 2-3 kg but in the golden age it was common for them to be more than this. It could explain why Dieselnoi had to retire, no high level guys bigger than him. And also I never knew he fought Rob Kaman, Im guessing Dieselnoi won?

If I am not mistaken, Namkabuan said that in Thailand [back in the days] the weights had to match.
 
The "belief" you're talking about didn't appear out of thin air. All the information we have comes from the fighters themselves and has never been refuted.

Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu, who knows Dielselnoi more than anyone from meeting him in person and reading everything that can be found on the man, wrote:
Above is an video excerpt from an 18 minute interview I did with the immortal Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn, the greatest knee fighter in history, who ultimately was stripped of his Lumpinee Belt and forced into an early retirement because nobody would fight him.
https://8limbsus.com/patreon-supporter-content/interview-dieselnoi-state-muay-thai

Dieselnoi himself also said he didn't want to retire:
I became a coach when I was 24, as far as if I have any regrets in the ring, I got tired of fighting. Lol., this is a joke, I wanted to fight more but there were no opponents. I wasn’t sure if I could fight or not, but I still practiced everyday, for many years, no one would like that right? So I gave up.
https://8limbsus.com/muay-thai-thailand/a-short-biography-of-dieselnoi-chor-thanasukarn

If you have any evidence that Dieselnoi and Sylvie are lying, please share it with us so we can make sure your opinion is based on facts rather than emotion and speculation.

There are things about 8limbs that I'm not fond of, they've spread misinformation before + in their essays posted to their forums they will often present speculation but kind of perpetuate the idea that it's fact. (Not hating on them, I'm a patreon supporter and am always recommending their work, just an observation on my part)

But I don't personally see Dieselnoi lying or being deceptive. I could see the idea that Dieselnoi is incorrect, but I don't think it would be out of wilful deception.
 
Proms and managers usually, if guy is well known, are able to make better sales for tickets and broadcasting rights.
That's the reason why they like to use a guy unil he is able to move in the ring.

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Dieselnoi always resembled to me a very big weight cutter.
 
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Karuhat was known for fighting larger opponents because he was so good. Its said he rarely lost fighting opponents his own size
 
If I am not mistaken, Namkabuan said that in Thailand [back in the days] the weights had to match.
Fighters moved up weight classes and fought with 1-2lb differences pretty often. I don't want to go through that video again right now but I am 99.99% sure he was comparing it to his fight with Dekkers where they did not weigh in.
 
Fighters moved up weight classes and fought with 1-2lb differences pretty often. I don't want to go through that video again right now but I am 99.99% sure he was comparing it to his fight with Dekkers where they did not weigh in.

Yes that is correct it is in that context that he mentioned it, saying that there was a weight mismatch that could not have happened in Thailand (the Dekkers/Namkabuan fight was in Marocco as I am sure you know) since in Thailand weight classes are always observed.
 
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