Greatest boxer ever?

  • Thread starter Thread starter brunow
  • Start date Start date
keenan87 said:
I am a big Marchiano fan, probably my favorite heavyweight, but to say he could beat any HW in their prime is retarded (he did beat Louis, but he was 137 years old when they fought, Frank Sinatra told me). He was champ when people were smaller and boxing was different. And heavyweight wasn't very stacked then either, his biggest win is against an old Joe Walcott and most of his big name fights were past their primes.

As for best ever, it has to be Ray Robinson or Henry Armstrong. Henry Armstrong once almost held half of the world championships at the same time (3/8) and i think he drew or lost a close fight to win his 4th.
Click to expand...

i'm glad you mentioned him. i think its a toss-up between armstrong, pep, greb & robinson.
 
Y'know, I was really amazed at how much bigger Muhammad Ali was than Roy Jones.

Just a few years back, they were doing some light touch-and-run in their street clothes just horsing around, and later they were sitting side by side. Ali dwarfed Roy.
Roy's 5'11" and about 185 maybe. Did he ever look small beside Ali.

Photographer Neil Leifer commented on meeting Ali for the first time.
Liefer said he was struck by how physically big Ali is, that he didn't look near as big on tv.
 
bradlee180 said:
hrumph...ron lyle...
Click to expand...

A bad stoppage, you think?

I don't know. It could have been, but I've seen worse, and don't really have a strong opinion either way in regards to that.

I do think the two judges that had it about even up to that point were fucked in the head, though.
 
Michael Linger said:
i'm only 19. i've watched his fights on ESPN Classics, i've seens tapes of his fights. I've seen him fight, he is the only HW boxing champ to retire undefeated. He won 44 of 49 fights by Knock Out, thats a 88% knockout rate.

The guy was good, i think he beats any HW fighter from any era in their primes. I think he beats Tyson, Ali, Frazier, Liston, Louis, Foreman, ect...ect...ect..
Click to expand...

it was really 43 knockouts, not 44. the heavyweight division at the time of marciano was pretty weak (walcott, charles and moore were his best wins and they were ancient when he fought them). he would be too small & unpolished to beat a bigger, faster, stronger tyson. ali probably would've cut him for the stoppage or just won on points. it's possible he would have been able to beat frazier in a war. liston would have killed him. in their primes, louis would have busted him up pretty bad. foreman? no way. foreman would have treated him the same way he did frazier. i think the styles dempsey, marciano & frazier share are not that much a threat to foreman. none of those guys are strong enough to deal with foreman. you just don't take the fight to foreman, you let him come to you and make mistakes, and that is not how those guys fought.
 
Sharkey said:
Only the British who claimed that?

"I wanted time for Cassius to get himself together! I don't know how many minutes I gained, and I admit it was gamemanship, but it was advantageous to both fighters.", "The very skillful Danny Holland, Cooper's cut man, had those extra minutes to work on the bad cut over Henry's left eye.", "It didn't work out for Henry. The fifth round started minutes late with his cut still seeping blood."

- a few quotes from Angelo Dundee in his bio 'I Only Talk Winning' (pages 189 & 190)


"It took nearly a minute to make the replacement. Many times I've been asked if I needed the extra minute it took.", "I believe a regular minute would have been enough to clear my head, but, of course, the extra minute gave me new vigor."

- Ali on page 122 of his bio 'My Own Story'


Apparently not 'only the British'.

I've seen the same video(s) you've seen in regards to only the few extra seconds you allude to, but in this day and age when it's so easy to edit such videos, I don't know if I'm going to believe what I was seeing considering all the parties involved (in 'Facing Ali', Cooper thought there was an extra minute and a half) thought at least an extra minute was added to Ali'sd rest period.

P.S. Ali got some close decisions that may have gone the other way in my eyes (Jones, Frazier II, Norton II, Shavers), but for my money, there's no way he won the fight with Jimmy Young or the third fight with Ken Norton, and I would call those gift decision in Ali's favour.
Click to expand...


I have seen different sources that range from 6 seconds to 6 minutes,the british magazine boxing news conducted an investigation into how much time was actually recieved by reviewing old tapes and old radio broadcasts and it was concluded that ali recieved no more time than any other would a minute and a bit is more than enough time to fix a tear


http://www.saddoboxing.com/3416-boxing-history-cassius-clay-vs-henry-cooper.html


The Time Tunnel: Remembering Cassius Clay- Henry Cooper


both men befited from it ali was allowed to regain compusure i will admit that,coopers cut man was allowed to fix coopers cut

however the alleged time is ridiculous,and yes video footage can be editing but it can also be editing to benefit both cooper and ali

close doesnt mean B.S decisions

the second norton fight was about as close as the first both close fights with both clear winners


now you are clearly being biased the second frazier fight was not at all close it was a clear win for ali,frazier won maybe 2 rounds bad example

shavers was a close fight but again ali won it fairly shavers could have finished ali but he backed off after hurting ali in the second round he has even stated this himself he backed off because he assumed that ali was fegning an injury

by round 12 ali was up 8-4

ernie had a good round 13 and 14 and if he had done well in round 15 he may very well of won that fight but he didnt


please explain me how there was no way ali won the third fight? norton didnt dominate the entire fight

after 8 rounds i would say he was comfortably ahead by 6-2 but after round 8 he stopped fighting,the fight doesnt end after 8 rounds after the 8th round norton won only one round
ali dominated the entire second half

now if norton had kept to his original game plan he would have won easily and even if he had won round 15 he well could have won


if the judges had given norton the win or it had been ruled a draw then i thought that would have been a fair decisionjust as i felt ali did more than enough to win that fight

now maybe the UNANIMOUS decision was B.S but the decision itself wasnt anytime you have a very close fight it's not bullshit


jimmy young i have yet to see that fight although from what i gather ali was horrible so fair enough you got that one
 
Sharkey said:
You discount those names and yet give credit to Ali for having the wins over the likes of Chuvalo, Cooper, Mildenberger, Bugner and the like?
Click to expand...


I said meh as in i am ignorant of that timeframe,my original post was woops as in woops guess you got me there


hard for me to judge those fighters that i have not seen
 
also i do not see why george foreman is not getting any credit around here i see him destroying the likes of louis and marciano

if he had been smarter with his punches he could have beaten ali but none the less even with that loss he is still one of the all time greats


he destroyed both frazier and norton both of who gave ali alot of trouble


and won the championship a month or so away from his 45th birthday,I heard tyson never wanted to face him either
 
Well, I stated earlier that this thread had me t a morphosed into "Favorite Fighter Ever" instead of thread title "Greatest boxer ever."

Here's 24 year old, 204 lb Muhammad Ali in 1966 against Karl Mildenberger.
6 oz gloves.

16748s7.jpg

.
 
bradlee180 said:
Well, I stated earlier that this thread had me t a morphosed into "Favorite Fighter Ever" instead of thread title "Greatest boxer ever."

Here's 24 year old, 204 lb Muhammad Ali in 1966 against Karl Mildenberger.
6 oz gloves.

16748s7.jpg

.
Click to expand...




nah this pic is better

r34152_84928.jpg
 
webeballin said:
I said meh as in i am ignorant of that timeframe,my original post was woops as in woops guess you got me there


hard for me to judge those fighters that i have not seen
Click to expand...

Now U know homie!
 
Ken Norton was sure put together.

KenNorton1969.jpg


Louis slapping Ali? Never heard that before.

I know Sonny Liston gave Ali a good slap once for being too fresh.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,280,789
Messages
58,317,936
Members
175,999
Latest member
Rosabelot

Share this page

Back
Top