Greatest boxer ever?

  • Thread starter Thread starter brunow
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Lazy Man said:
Are you being serious or joking?
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A bit of both. It WAS the late stages of their careers. I think this moreso of MAorales than Barerra, but still..

Where they on their way out as much as an undefeated HAtton? As Castillo when Floyd fought him?
 
Well what about the first time Barrera got beat by Pacquiao? I'd say that one is a pretty prime, or close to it, Barrera. Other than that, I agree about Morales, even when he lost to Morales, Morales looked to have slowed a bit.


And I think at this point, Hatton seems to be possibly just a bit past his peak. Even though he seems somewhat new (at least to me, it seems as he's arrived not that long ago) he has had quite a few fights. But is the point you're making that this version of Hatton is more "prime" than the faded Morales and Barrera? I'd say yes, except for the first Barrera fight. And don't forget the Marquez fights! Very good wins, as well. Even if you don't see them as wins, he fought him close each time, and both fights could have gone either way. And he had Marquez on the canvas many times.

Sorry, I think I'm losing track of what we're talking about.
 
Seano said:
A bit of both. It WAS the late stages of their careers. I think this moreso of MAorales than Barerra, but still..

Where they on their way out as much as an undefeated HAtton? As Castillo when Floyd fought him?
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You OK? That was hard to follow.
 
Morales wasn't in his prime when Pacquiao beat him. Not by a longshot.
 
Michael Linger said:
i'm only 19. i've watched his fights on ESPN Classics, i've seens tapes of his fights. I've seen him fight, he is the only HW boxing champ to retire undefeated. He won 44 of 49 fights by Knock Out, thats a 88% knockout rate.

The guy was good, i think he beats any HW fighter from any era in their primes. I think he beats Tyson, Ali, Frazier, Liston, Louis, Foreman, ect...ect...ect..
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With the size advantage that Foreman had he'd have handled Marciano quite easily IMHO! Also a prime Tyson fought a very similar style to Marciano only faster and more powerful so I also see Tyson giving him fits.

As for best boxer ever has to be SRR, how can this be argued???

When he lost his first Middleweight title defense Sugar Ray Robinson was 128-1-2 (in 1951) and had been defending Championships for 5 years at multiple weight classes winning his first Welterweight title in 1946!

He was also 40-0 when he lost his first fight to Jake Lamotta, a fight he avenged 21 days later with a 41-1 record (he actually had a tune up fight 2 weeks later). He also ended up 4-1 in fights with Jake Lamotta!

He retired with a 173-19-6 record with 108 KO's and fought from 1940-1965, being stopped only once in 200 career fights due to heat exhaustion after the 13th round of a title fight with Joey Maxim, a fighter who out weighed him by 15 pounds at the weigh in.

Also as for people saying Marciano was the best P4P, did any of you know Sugar Ray Robinson actually beat Marciano as an amateur???
 
Hanz_Blitz said:
Also as for people saying Marciano was the best P4P, did any of you know Sugar Ray Robinson actually beat Marciano as an amateur???
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This is stupid and wrong. Robinson turned pro in 1940, and Marciano had his first amateur fight in the military sometime around 1945 or 1946.
 
Hanz_Blitz said:
With the size advantage that Foreman had he'd have handled Marciano quite easily IMHO! Also a prime Tyson fought a very similar style to Marciano only faster and more powerful so I also see Tyson giving him fits.

As for best boxer ever has to be SRR, how can this be argued???

When he lost his first Middleweight title defense Sugar Ray Robinson was 128-1-2 (in 1951) and had been defending Championships for 5 years at multiple weight classes winning his first Welterweight title in 1946!

He was also 40-0 when he lost his first fight to Jake Lamotta, a fight he avenged 21 days later with a 41-1 record (he actually had a tune up fight 2 weeks later). He also ended up 4-1 in fights with Jake Lamotta!

He retired with a 173-19-6 record with 108 KO's and fought from 1940-1965, being stopped only once in 200 career fights due to heat exhaustion after the 13th round of a title fight with Joey Maxim, a fighter who out weighed him by 15 pounds at the weigh in.

Also as for people saying Marciano was the best P4P, did any of you know Sugar Ray Robinson actually beat Marciano as an amateur???
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You could do 5 minutes of research and realize that is a rumor.
 
Yeah I did look into it and I apologize? I actually seen a video that was titled SRR vs Marciano Amateur bout and they looked the parts so I assumed it was right.......... I know now how foolish that looks
 
picard.jpg
 
Not that an amateur fight should count on a guy's professional record anyway...
 
Michael Linger said:
i'm only 19. i've watched his fights on ESPN Classics, i've seens tapes of his fights. I've seen him fight, he is the only HW boxing champ to retire undefeated. He won 44 of 49 fights by Knock Out, thats a 88% knockout rate.

The guy was good, i think he beats any HW fighter from any era in their primes. I think he beats Tyson, Ali, Frazier, Liston, Louis, Foreman, ect...ect...ect..
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Dig more into history and find out all of Rocks notable wins were against ancient fighters who were so far past their primes it isn't even funny.

Rock was good, had power. But far from the greatest.

Prime Durans, Ray Robs, Pepps - all hold good arguements.

Defensively, No one did it like Nicolino Locche. Willie Pepp Pernell Whitaker, Winky Wright, Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, Floyd Mayweather are more to name a few

Offensively, You have Henry Armstrong, the absolute DEFINITION of offense. NEVER stopped punching. Spinks, Ali, Roy jones are also noteable for their Offense because they were incredibly unorthodox fighters who didn't do anything by the book.

You have Power - The tysons, foremans, fraziers, shavers, ibeabuchis, marcianos, and ofcourse there's Julian Jackson.

You have your guys who weren't pretty at all but got the job done. Hagler comes to mind, as does Hatton and early Pacman. So many different attributes that determine a great fighter. At the end of the day it all comes down to who can do it all the best.

Today, Bernard Hopkins has Pop, Precision, and incredible defense.
Yesterday, Ali had every attribute and then some.

But of all time, In no particular order.. I've always been content with

Harry Greb, Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Roberto Duran, Willie Pep, Joe Louis, Ali, and a Prime Leonard.

All ATG and all arguable IMO. But to each his own.
 
I like the Benny Leonard mention. He's arguably the best lightweight ever, above Duran and Armstrong.
 
intoccabile said:
Dig more into history and find out all of Rocks notable wins were against ancient fighters who were so far past their primes it isn't even funny.

Rock was good, had power. But far from the greatest.

Prime Durans, Ray Robs, Pepps - all hold good arguements.

Defensively, No one did it like Nicolino Locche. Willie Pepp Pernell Whitaker, Winky Wright, Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, Floyd Mayweather are more to name a few

Offensively, You have Henry Armstrong, the absolute DEFINITION of offense. NEVER stopped punching. Spinks, Ali, Roy jones are also noteable for their Offense because they were incredibly unorthodox fighters who didn't do anything by the book.

You have Power - The tysons, foremans, fraziers, shavers, ibeabuchis, marcianos, and ofcourse there's Julian Jackson.

You have your guys who weren't pretty at all but got the job done. Hagler comes to mind, as does Hatton and early Pacman. So many different attributes that determine a great fighter. At the end of the day it all comes down to who can do it all the best.

Today, Bernard Hopkins has Pop, Precision, and incredible defense.
Yesterday, Ali had every attribute and then some.

But of all time, In no particular order.. I've always been content with

Harry Greb, Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Roberto Duran, Willie Pep, Joe Louis, Ali, and a Prime Leonard.

All ATG and all arguable IMO. But to each his own.
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Agreed, well stated
 
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