Greatest boxer ever?

[Ox Baker]

Quitting on the stool for one, taking a dive for another. You think that was the best Liston?

Everyone take a look. ^^^^^^^

This is what is known as a circular argument:

• Ali was at his best in 1976 because he fought such great fighters.
• Liston wasn't a great fighter because Ali beat him.

You're making this too easy. You're beat.

 

[Seano]

Everyone take a look. ^^^^^^^

This is what is known as a circular argument:

• Ali was at his best in 1976 because he fought such great fighters.
• Liston wasn't a great fighter because Ali beat him.

You're making this too easy. You're beat.

^^^^ Everyone take a look. Ox can't read or comprehend, one or the other.

I never said that, it was pretty late in Listons career, no? Were they good performances in comparison to other top fighters he fought? No they were not. Liston loked terrible against Ali and the second fight was a non factor because it was not actually a fight.

You're making this harder than it is. You lose.

 

[Seano]

Stop watching 20-year-old documentaries on ESPN Classic, and start reading up on the facts. The 1930 census of Forest City, Arkansas, was revealed a few years ago, and it lists his parents and a few of his siblings, but not Charles. At most, he was 31 years old when he fought Muhammad Ali. The arrest records and anecdotal accounts that list him as being born in 1927 or 1928 - including his mother's own word - are simply wrong.

31 years old. How was he not at his best? He absolutely destroyed Floyd Patterson only seven months earlier, and hadn't shown one bit of deterioration. More to the point, he showed no signs of being past his best until half a decade later when Leotis Martin knocked him out.

Floyd Patterson was tailor made for Liston, come on now. What HW got put on his ass more than Patterson?

 

[Ox Baker]

Again, Liston looked bad because he was fighting Muhammad Ali, who made everyone look bad. Your argument is that Ali wasn't at his best, because Liston wasn't at his best, because Ali beat him. That is stupid and wrong.

 

[MMAGuruLV***]

Seano, please tell me your last name ain't Shelby

 

[webeballin]

I heard seano and ox don't like each other very much

 

[Seano]

I heard seano and ox don't like each other very much

eh..

Hes growing on me. At first I thought he was a prick and really still do, but I appreciate people with boxing knowledge.

I think of him like a pet now.

 

[Seano]

Seano, please tell me your last name ain't Shelby

If it was your sig would be different.

 

[MMAGuruLV***]

If it was your sig would be different.

??? Is that a no?

 

[Seano]

??? Is that a no?

Well it doesn't say "Sean Shelby is kick ass," so no, I'm not Sean Shelby.

 

[MMAGuruLV***]

Ok, well if so, YOU ARE my bitch.

Just to fill every one in,Sean shelby is a booking agent, he thinks he's Joe Silva. But hes more like a CLASSIC example of..... whats it called again when short dudes act tough? Short mans complex? Something like that.

 

[Hard as Iron]

31 years old. How was he not at his best? He absolutely destroyed Floyd Patterson only seven months earlier, and hadn't shown one bit of deterioration.

There is an obvious size difference (and a ridiculous reach difference, like a whole foot) between Patterson and Liston, and a big punching power difference. Liston today would be a cruiserweight, and Patterson a middleweight. Only back then could freak show fights like that happen.

 

[rajun cajun]

I am a big Marchiano fan, probably my favorite heavyweight, but to say he could beat any HW in their prime is retarded (he did beat Louis, but he was 137 years old when they fought, Frank Sinatra told me). He was champ when people were smaller and boxing was different. And heavyweight wasn't very stacked then either, his biggest win is against an old Joe Walcott and most of his big name fights were past their primes.

As for best ever, it has to be Ray Robinson or Henry Armstrong. Henry Armstrong once almost held half of the world championships at the same time (3/8) and i think he drew or lost a close fight to win his 4th.

Haha! Agree about marciano.. Also agree..probably Robinson.

 

[Fighty]

Mike Tyson heralded a new era. He basically changed the kind of heavyweight that was needed to become a champion. The tall, slender boxer (with Muhammed Ali as the quintessential archetype) was out the door.

 

[Immortal-BJJ**]

YouTube - Joe Louis was 137 yrs old

thats right!

 

[xXSpawnXx]

Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pep, Roberto Duran, Sam Langford, Joseph Saddler.

 

[Knyghtmare]

1) Sugar Ray Robinson
2) M. Ali
3) Sugar Ray Lenard
4) Marvin Hagler
5) Pernell Whitaker
6) Floyd Mayweather Jr.
7) J. C. Chavez
8) Roy Jones Jr.
9) Bernard Hopkins
10) Lennox Lewis
11) Joe Calzaghe
12) James Toney
13) Thomas Hearns
14) Joe Frazier
15) Larry Holmes
Those r about tha top 15 best boxers of all time 2 me.

 

[CrankJohnson]

YouTube - Joe Louis was 137 yrs old

thats right!

My-T-Sharp is a bunch of HACKS!!!

Soul Glo FTW!!!!

 

[MMAGuruLV***]

Best eva

Phil Baroni

 

[Ox Baker]

There is an obvious size difference

Yeah. Liston was half an inch taller, and 20 pounds heavier. We never see that anymore.

(and a ridiculous reach difference, like a whole foot) between Patterson and Liston,

I think people focus too much on reach and not enough on range. Just because someone has a longer reach, it doesn't mean he can just sit outside and box. Look at Aaron Pryor outboxing Tommy Hearns in the amateurs despite a massive reach advantage on the latter's part. Liston had a huge reach with his jab, but not as big a range with his power shots. Look at his fights with Cleveland Williams. Williams's reach measurement was 4" less than that of Liston's, but watching those fights, it looks like Williams has the advantage. Patterson, on the other hand, had an amazing range on his left hook, which was arguably the best boxing had seen since the days of Jim Jeffries.

and a big punching power difference.

I'd disagree. Patterson had the same kind of power as Mike Tyson, only to a lesser extent. He hit people with his biggest shots when they weren't expecting it, and he scored a number of one-punch knockouts.

Liston today would be a cruiserweight,

Not after he'd knocked out both Klitschko brothers. Liston walked around at 240 or so, and he had to train his ass off to make it down to 215 for fight time.

and Patterson a middleweight.

A middleweight? He moved to light heavyweight because he couldn't make 165 as a pro. At 190 pounds, there wasn't an ounce of fat on him. He would've had trouble making 175, let alone 160, even if he dehydrated for days. Look at how much trouble Roy Jones had making 175 after fighting at heavyweight.

Only back then could freak show fights like that happen.

Yeah, right.