Graham Hancock and the ancient civilization theory

[VivaRevolution]

If everything about what we know about human beings is true it's that migration has always been part of human behavior. I do not believe for a moment that a civilization could get that advanced and there wouldn't be migration and a population explosion along with it. I can't wrap my head around a civilization getting that advanced and not venturing out. I don't think it would be realistic or possible as it would be hundreds of years leading up to the civilization's peak which would have resulted in mass migrations and population explosions.



Which would be all the more reason to think they didn't get as advanced as some are suggesting. Let me put it this way...if the world was chaotic to the point that migrations weren't possible then you wouldn't have the kind of advancements that are being suggested in the first place because it would have been too chaotic to get there.

Did you know that they have found very few skeletal remains from even 13,000 years ago?

They find tools, but very few skeletal remains.

Now imagine that they don't even look for these things in excavation sites, because they have already decided there is nothing there to look for, and you have a pretty good picture of where we are.

People say where is the evidence, and Hancock responds, "well, I might be able to show it to you, if archeologists would start looking."

 

[DeJulez]

_______________________________

So I recommend watching the last video, over the others.

The pictures of scale of this event is what moved me on this.

Here is the theory for those unaware.

A meteor strike happened about 12,800 years ago. This wiped human civilization off the map. This is where the flood stories come from.

For those that remember my thread on the 40,000 year old Denisovan bracelet with fixed drilling technology, it is discussed in the top video.

I am interested in seeing a debunk of this, but I will note, I am no longer open to the Clovis first theory. I believe that has been completely debunked.

Discuss..........

You were in the thread that I was talking about this stuff in a week or so ago?

 

[VivaRevolution]

You were in the thread that I was talking about this stuff in a week or so ago?

No, I rarely berry, these days.

 

[DeJulez]

No, I rarely berry, these days.

I'm pretty sure you were there. It wasn't a thread about this, but I mentioned this and then I think Goldennirvana tried to argue against it and you replied back?
Maybe not.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I'm pretty sure you were there. It wasn't a thread about this, but I mentioned this and then I think Goldennirvana tried to argue against it and you replied back?
Maybe not.

Maybe, I post allot.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I don't think he's proven anything, so I'm not sure where we would argue. He makes a relatively good circumstantial case, people can buy the basic or specific premises or not. In specifics, I'd guess he's wrong, in general he's almost certainly correct, just depends on how you define the advancement of the civilizations we know next to nothing about.

I think logic does put a certain limit on advancement though, if civilisations had advanced to the degree a lot of the crypo archaeological "experts" claim then they would have left traces beyond the now flooded continental shelves.

I mean stone age settlements potentially existing in now flooded areas isn't really THAT revolutionary, your talking a similar range to Gobekli Tepe in Turkey at around 9000 BC.

 

[DeJulez]

I can only tell you what Hancock thinks, and he basis this level conservatively on how he feels the world was mapped in pre history...which is pretty convincing that they did. He says at least 18th century level technology, perhaps 19th.

That guess is ignoring ancient constructions which may or may not go back (or be a legacy of knowledge of) to previous civilizations, and have been misidentified. He (nor I) believe the pyramids in Egypt for example go back further than modern dating of Old Kingdom Egypt (5.5k years bp)...but stuff like the Oserion, which is unusually advanced in it's construction methods might go back further.

That's because Egypt dates its own history, through the Kings and Pharaohs list to 34,000 years ago. From the Gods to the first human ruler of Egypt and etc.

There's people that believe that the Sphinx dates to that time of 34,000 years ago because of the constellation(Leo) line up and the history of Egypt beginning then.
The next time the constellation lined up, wouldve been about 12,000 years ago, and thats what I think Graham believes the Sphinx went up.

Very interesting stuff all around.

If the theory is right, it changes everything. You now have 10,000 years you were wrong about as historians or whatever. If its even older, its even a bigger feat.
We have to look at everything we've ever studied about the past totally different.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

They don't look for the evidence. Why would you look for something you have already decided isn't there?

Scientists wouldn't specifically be looking for a civilization, they would notice things like:

-Domesticated species of animals and plants being traced to an area
-A human haplogroup hotspot also in that area
-Finding anomalous sedimentation layers that would indicate advanced human activity when there shouldn't have been

A lot of discoveries are found by accident.

 

[sloppypie]

People say where is the evidence, and Hancock responds, "well, I might be able to show it to you, if archeologists would start looking."

when conspiracy theorists get snarky and say retarded shit like this, they deserve a backhand to the face. it's easy to sit there and talk out of your ass, it's another when idiots post their shitty youtube videos and demand their moronic ideas be taken seriously.

dude just wants to sell his books and other retarded shit. conspiracy theorists are a rung below right wing caricatures in the con artist realm of scamming money, and two rungs below a psychic. at least psychics have to fucking work a room and con people directly, there's literally zero work involved being a conspiracy theorist other than to open your fat trap and spew idiocy.

 

[andnowweknow]

I think logic does put a certain limit on advancement though, if civilisations had advanced to the degree a lot of the crypo archaeological "experts" claim then they would have left traces beyond the now flooded continental shelves.

I mean stone age settlements potentially existing in now flooded areas isn't really THAT revolutionary, your talking a similar range to Gobekli Tepe in Turkey at around 9000 BC.

I agree, though again, it's how you define advancement, which almost certainly isn't some singular linear path that only has one outcome (ie, 21st century technology of today). Speculating on what that alternative path would look like gets into truly pure speculation.

Hancock is fair in going as far as to say someone in prehistory may have mapped the world. That's clearly possible and wouldn't surprise me at all. A civilization, however, that advanced either just like us or in another advanced fashion beyond that would be a little crazy if true.

 

[Joe265]

I think logic does put a certain limit on advancement though, if civilisations had advanced to the degree a lot of the crypo archaeological "experts" claim then they would have left traces beyond the now flooded continental shelves.

I mean stone age settlements potentially existing in now flooded areas isn't really THAT revolutionary, your talking a similar range to Gobekli Tepe in Turkey at around 9000 BC.

Your preconceptions on what “advancement” looks like are based on self-centered ssumptions. Maybe advanced human beings don’t spend their lives on working meaningless jobs to acquire meaningless material wealth. Maybe advanced human beings actually understood the greater questions of why we are actually here.

 

[andnowweknow]

when conspiracy theorists get snarky and say retarded shit like this, they deserve a backhand to the face. it's easy to sit there and talk out of your ass, it's another when idiots post their shitty youtube videos and demand their moronic ideas be taken seriously.

dude just wants to sell his books and other retarded shit. conspiracy theorists are a rung below right wing caricatures in the con artist realm of scamming money, and two rungs below a psychic. at least psychics have to fucking work a room and con people directly, there's literally zero work involved being a conspiracy theorist other than to open your fat trap and spew idiocy.

You just did the exact same thing you're railing against at the opposite end of the spectrum. This tactic was taken by professional skeptic Michael Shermer and he ended making critiques geared for others and aiming them at Hancock.

This theory, while highly speculative, has a good author and researcher behind it unlike 99.9% of other fringe nonsense. Hancock may be wrong, but he's hardly the charlatan you're making him out to be.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Scientists wouldn't specifically be looking for a civilization, they would notice things like:

-Domesticated species of animals and plants being traced to an area
-A human haplogroup hotspot also in that area
-Finding anomalous sedimentation layers that would indicate advanced human activity when there shouldn't have been

A lot of discoveries are found by accident.

And they have found a number of them.

Like a 40,000 year old bracelet made with fixed drilling technology.

Or a number of other examples Hancock gives.

I'm not arguing this is conclusive proof of anything, just that you are wrong to argue they have found nothing when they aren't even looking.

 

[Joe265]

A society can make a conscious decision not to pursue the materialism we ourselves have, thus they would have no need for plastics...just as we have little conception as to why certain people of the past built stone structures of immense difficulty rather than doing things in temporary and easy fashion as we do.

Agreed. Materialism is direct evidence of a primitive society that values meaningless things above life and greater purpose. We are living in the dark ages.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

when conspiracy theorists get snarky and say retarded shit like this, they deserve a backhand to the face. it's easy to sit there and talk out of your ass, it's another when idiots post their shitty youtube videos and demand their moronic ideas be taken seriously.

dude just wants to sell his books and other retarded shit. conspiracy theorists are a rung below right wing caricatures in the con artist realm of scamming money, and two rungs below a psychic. at least psychics have to fucking work a room and con people directly, there's literally zero work involved being a conspiracy theorist other than to open your fat trap and spew idiocy.

Hancock has sold millions and millions of copies of his books and I'm still not sure if he really believes what he's saying or if he's just a hustler. If it's the latter then I tip my hat to him, well done!

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

And they have found a number of them.

Like a 40,000 year old bracelet made with fixed drilling technology.

Or a number of other examples Hancock gives.

I'm not arguing this is conclusive proof of anything, just that you are wrong to argue they have found nothing when they aren't even looking.

Ya, that's not really going to be enough without more corroborating evidence. I addressed this in my post (177) to you that you didn't answer.

"Clovis First's primary support was that no solid evidence of pre-Clovis human habitation has been found in the Americas. Now that new sites like ButterMilk Creek have been found that predate Clovis the consensus has been overturned. As for the Denisovan Bracelet, it is an interesting artifact and is still being studied. It's ok right now for us to say that we don't know right now, it's an extreme reach to suggest that an advanced civilization 60k years ago drilled the hole without any real converging evidence to support that theory. If you believe it, know it's because you simply want to and not really because of the evidence at this point."

 

[VivaRevolution]

Ya, that's not really going to be enough without more corroborating evidence. I addressed this in my post (177) to you that you didn't answer.

"Clovis First's primary support was that no solid evidence of pre-Clovis human habitation has been found in the Americas. Now that new sites like ButterMilk Creek have been found that predate Clovis the consensus has been overturned. As for the Denisovan Bracelet, it is an interesting artifact and is still being studied. It's ok right now for us to say that we don't know right now, it's an extreme reach to suggest that an advanced civilization 60k years ago drilled the hole without any real converging evidence to support that theory. If you believe it, know it's because you simply want to and not really because of the evidence at this point."

What if I don't believe or have faith in the idea, but think it is the only theory I have ever seen that could explain that bracelet?

 

[andnowweknow]

Agreed. Materialism is direct evidence of a primitive society that values meaningless things above life and greater purpose. We are living in the dark ages.

Well, you're a material girl.

 

[andnowweknow]

Hancock has sold millions and millions of copies of his books and I'm still not sure if he really believes what he's saying or if he's just a hustler. If it's the latter then I tip my hat to him, well done!

You could just read one of his books you know.

Be honest, and I'll help qualify whatever you're reading. What skeptic or debunker website are you reading instead of his actual books? You should watch his debate with professional skeptic Michael Shermer. Since you seem interested.

He's been wrong about quite a few specific things btw.

 

[Darth_Inv1ctu5]

_______________________________

So I recommend watching the last video, over the others.

The pictures of scale of this event is what moved me on this.

Here is the theory for those unaware.

A meteor strike happened about 12,800 years ago. This wiped human civilization off the map. This is where the flood stories come from.

For those that remember my thread on the 40,000 year old Denisovan bracelet with fixed drilling technology, it is discussed in the top video.

I am interested in seeing a debunk of this, but I will note, I am no longer open to the Clovis first theory. I believe that has been completely debunked.

Discuss..........

Where'd the meteor hit?