Media Georges St-Pierre, Jon Jones or Fedor Emelianenko - Who is the greatest MMA fighter of all-time? (The Finals)

[Bob Sagat]

Fedor's hardest fights were also nearly all people his own size where he didn't have a speed advantage so make up your mind whether or not the size disadvantage even affected him.

werdum, bigfoot, matt mitrione, all fighters fedor lost to and I would consider hard fights are all significantly taller than fedor and outweigh him
fedor fought bigger dudes consistently

 

[markg171]

werdum, bigfoot, matt mitrione, all fighters fedor lost to and I would consider hard fights are all significantly taller than fedor and outweigh him
fedor fought bigger dudes consistently

Yeah, Fedor sure lost the Werdum and Mitrione fights due to size and not fighting like an idiot.

 

[vlz]

jones has tested positive so out of the question

 

[Bob Sagat]

Yeah, Fedor sure lost the Werdum and Mitrione fights due to size and not fighting like an idiot.

you're moving the goal posts
he consistently fought larger opponents

 

[markg171]

you're moving the goal posts
he consistently fought larger opponents

Yeah, he's a real superhero for fighting Werdum who was 9lbs heavier.

That added size is why he dived head first into the guard of a BJJ world champ. Wasn't prepared for where his head would land on a such a bigger fighter.

 

[Bob Sagat]

Yeah, he's a real superhero for fighting Werdum who was 9lbs heavier.

appreciate your concession, and yeah 9lbs is pretty significant

 

[Royce Greasy]

Jones is superior to GSP in almost every metric. Its whether you value Fedors 10 year streak over Jones resume. imo Jones has faced consistently better competition and won so he gets the nod.

He never fought better competition because for one he fought at lhw and was clearly the largest there, he had an 84.5 reach, secondly the guys he fought like Shogun, Rampage, Lyoto etc in addition to being smaller had already had full careers in the much superior Pride FC so basically he was fighting smaller guys at the tail end of their careers.



Thirdly and most importantly he is a 2 time cheat to me this is the most damning, you can say what you want about Pride fighters but Jon was caught twice that's irrefutable so there is no way a clear cut cheat can be the greatest fighter the sport has ever seen IDGAF about how much money he's made for crooked UFC or the fan base he's a cheat period.


Finally imo he lost the first Gus fight and many people agreed until the UFC brass talked gullible people out of what they saw, I also clearly saw him lose to Reyes
yet the bias fan base insists he won that which is disgusting and he struggled badly with Santos which I thought was a draw. So he gets gifted decisions because he is popular and UFC created a myth that he was unbeatable which is BS.


Jon took the easiest fights at HW in Gane who is one-dimentional and I don't care what he was ranked at the time, UFC rankings are BS and based on politics
much of the time also the HW division must be bad if a guy was that bad of a ground game is #2. Then instead of facing the true number 1 contender in Aspinall he chooses Stipe who got KO'd 3 years ago absolutely pathetic. Everyone saying well he's past and now he's allowed to take it easy, sure he can without the belt and status of being HW champ.


I have way way more respect for Fedor and GSP for not being cheats, in Fedor's case he fought under much tougher conditions 10 minute rounds, kicks,stomps,knees to a grounded opponents also yellow cards where you lose 10% of your purse for inactivity which made fighters go for broke and led to more finishes, participating in GP's where you fight multiple times in a night also fought much larger opponents. Just about everyone he fought in Pride was ranked at the time the only true can he faced was Zulu but so what big deal Stipe also fought Maldonado who was a lhw and destroyed him which is fine.


Here's an interesting fact to ponder, during Pride's 10 year history they had many fighters on their roster some of which Anderson Silva, Chuck Liddell, Ricco,
Mirko, Big Nog, Wanderlei, Shogun, Rampage, Arona etc, all of the fighters that fought regularly meaning more than 3 times all lost at least once in Silva's case he had a 3-2 record this is one of the greatest UFC champs, I kept running through fighters who were in Pride and had 3 fights or more and the only fighter
who never suffered a defeat was Fedor all those other greats had far less fights but suffered losses or a loss that's how tough Pride was back then and a testament to Fedor's legitimacy.



Whenever I think of Fedor I only judge or grade him on the years from 2000-2008 because by the time of the Rogers fight he's done physically, I think it would be absurd to expect any fighter to still be in prime form nearly 10 years later but many hold Fedor to that ridiculous standard. I don't like Cain and thought he was overrated however by the time he fights Francis imo he was done physically and that loss had no effect on his legacy, I apply the same criteria as before with Fedor because its common sense and reality.

 

[Royce Greasy]

to me it's highly debatable whether fedor lost in his prime. in that loss to werdum i think he was past his prime. once he left pride, he was done. his last great fight to me was the one with hunt. i was scared for him when he fought lindland. fedor intentionally did grab the rope in the fight, and he would have been in big trouble.

This isn't that hard he wasn't in his prime during the Werdum loss in 2010 btw you know career that began in 2000 lol, the whole he lost in his prime were from UFC noobs that were brainwashed by Dana, so any form of logic please tell a fighter who is in their prime 10 years into their fighting career.

 

[TheBulge]

He never fought better competition because for one he fought at lhw and was clearly the largest there, he had an 84.5 reach, secondly the guys he fought like Shogun, Rampage, Lyoto etc in addition to being smaller had already had full careers in the much superior Pride FC so basically he was fighting smaller guys at the tail end of their careers.



Thirdly and most importantly he is a 2 time cheat to me this is the most damning, you can say what you want about Pride fighters but Jon was caught twice that's irrefutable so there is no way a clear cut cheat can be the greatest fighter the sport has ever seen IDGAF about how much money he's made for crooked UFC or the fan base he's a cheat period.


Finally imo he lost the first Gus fight and many people agreed until the UFC brass talked gullible people out of what they saw, I also clearly saw him lose to Reyes
yet the bias fan base insists he won that which is disgusting and he struggled badly with Santos which I thought was a draw. So he gets gifted decisions because he is popular and UFC created a myth that he was unbeatable which is BS.


Jon took the easiest fights at HW in Gane who is one-dimentional and I don't care what he was ranked at the time, UFC rankings are BS and based on politics
much of the time also the HW division must be bad if a guy was that bad of a ground game is #2. Then instead of facing the true number 1 contender in Aspinall he chooses Stipe who got KO'd 3 years ago absolutely pathetic. Everyone saying well he's past and now he's allowed to take it easy, sure he can without the belt and status of being HW champ.


I have way way more respect for Fedor and GSP for not being cheats, in Fedor's case he fought under much tougher conditions 10 minute rounds, kicks,stomps,knees to a grounded opponents also yellow cards where you lose 10% of your purse for inactivity which made fighters go for broke and led to more finishes, participating in GP's where you fight multiple times in a night also fought much larger opponents. Just about everyone he fought in Pride was ranked at the time the only true can he faced was Zulu but so what big deal Stipe also fought Maldonado who was a lhw and destroyed him which is fine.


Here's an interesting fact to ponder, during Pride's 10 year history they had many fighters on their roster some of which Anderson Silva, Chuck Liddell, Ricco,
Mirko, Big Nog, Wanderlei, Shogun, Rampage, Arona etc, all of the fighters that fought regularly meaning more than 3 times all lost at least once in Silva's case he had a 3-2 record this is one of the greatest UFC champs, I kept running through fighters who were in Pride and had 3 fights or more and the only fighter
who never suffered a defeat was Fedor all those other greats had far less fights but suffered losses or a loss that's how tough Pride was back then and a testament to Fedor's legitimacy.



Whenever I think of Fedor I only judge or grade him on the years from 2000-2008 because by the time of the Rogers fight he's done physically, I think it would be absurd to expect any fighter to still be in prime form nearly 10 years later but many hold Fedor to that ridiculous standard. I don't like Cain and thought he was overrated however by the time he fights Francis imo he was done physically and that loss had no effect on his legacy, I apply the same criteria as before with Fedor because its common sense and reality.

I stopped reading this after the part about Jones "cheating" and then going on to glaze Pride fighters. These people cannot be serious but sadly they are. No credibility.

 

[markg171]

This isn't that hard he wasn't in his prime during the Werdum loss in 2010 btw you know career that began in 2000 lol, the whole he lost in his prime were from UFC noobs that were brainwashed by Dana, so any form of logic please tell a fighter who is in their prime 10 years into their fighting career.

What about being in your prime or not causes one to moronically dive head first into the guard of the BJJ world champ?

Fedor fans will never admit that most of his losses are from fighting like a moron.

 

[JBJ was here]

Yeah, he's a real superhero for fighting Werdum who was 9lbs heavier.

That added size is why he dived head first into the guard of a BJJ world champ. Wasn't prepared for where his head would land on a such a bigger fighter.

Compare to Fedor vs. Big Nog 2, where Fedor kept taking Nog down and standing right up to avoid the guard.

 

[Royce Greasy]

I stopped reading this after the part about Jones "cheating" and then going on to glaze Pride fighters. These people cannot be serious but sadly they are. No credibility.

Not every Pride fighter used steroids and they did some form of testing contrary to hearsay, point is Fedor never tested positive once in the states and I doubt he would use anyways given the type of person he is, he also isn't a degenerate that uses cocaine either guy actually cares about his health and after his fighting career.

Jones is a cheat on record that's a fact, has been his whole life Dana even said this in an interview but because Dana would sell his soul for money he will go in front of the press and say all sorts of flattering things about Jones for the UFC bottom line.

 

[Royce Greasy]

What about being in your prime or not causes one to moronically dive head first into the guard of the BJJ world champ?

Fedor fans will never admit that most of his losses are from fighting like a moron.

What does that have to do with the original question.


Maybe you should have been there to train him so he never made such a grave error, you're so qualified being a poster on sherdog and armchair quarter back I mean what does he know he's only a Pride champ, Sambo champ, Judo champ representing Russia surely he could use your advice from your years of being a watcher lol.

 

[markg171]

What does that have to do with the original question.


Maybe you should have been there to train him so he never made such a grave error, you're so qualified being a poster on sherdog and armchair quarter back I mean what does he know he's only a Pride champ, Sambo champ, Judo champ representing Russia surely he could use your advice from your years of being a watcher lol.

All of those things are exactly why he was arrogant enough to dive head first into Werdum's guard.

They're also why it's such a fair point against him for having all that experience and still making such a rookie mistake.

 

[Royce Greasy]

All of those things are exactly why he was arrogant enough to dive head first into Werdum's guard.

They're also why it's such a fair point against him for having all that experience and still making such a rookie mistake.

So you do in fact think you the nobody never was on sherdog is better at martial arts, gameplanning than Fedor the goat HW LOL.

This is a new level of stupid and I won't be responding anymore, so by your logic anyone who goes into someones guard and gets triangled is an amateur is that right, so all the competitors at ADCC that get caught are rookies you should have a big neon sign saying I'm a noob and don't know anything besides UFC.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Jones get no respect, lol. His longevity and body of work is above the others.

Barry Bonds/Lance Armstrong of MMA deserves no respect

 

[markg171]

So you do in fact think you the nobody never was on sherdog is better at martial arts, gameplanning than Fedor the goat HW LOL.

This is a new level of stupid and I won't be responding anymore, so by your logic anyone who goes into someones guard and gets triangled is an amateur is that right, so all the competitors at ADCC that get caught are rookies you should have a big neon sign saying I'm a noob and don't know anything besides UFC.

This kind of head in the sands denial that Fedor factually made a colossal and easily avoidable mistake against Werdum is exactly why it's hard to take some of you guys seriously.

I mean, do you really think Fedor just magically was never submitted at any other point in his career out of sheer dumb luck or because Werdum was really that much better than every other grappler he ever fought? Despite Werdum being outgrappled by Nog in their first fight or Monson also being a BJJ world champ?

Fedor made a dumb mistake. It cost him. That's fighting.

 

[TheBulge]

Not every Pride fighter used steroids and they did some form of testing contrary to hearsay, point is Fedor never tested positive once in the states and I doubt he would use anyways given the type of person he is, he also isn't a degenerate that uses cocaine either guy actually cares about his health and after his fighting career.

Jones is a cheat on record that's a fact, has been his whole life Dana even said this in an interview but because Dana would sell his soul for money he will go in front of the press and say all sorts of flattering things about Jones for the UFC bottom line.

You're not even realizing that you're digging your hole deeper and deeper. Not every Pride fighter used steroids(not your favorites in particular, what a coincidence) yet all of a sudden the concept of cheating doesn't count?

I really don't think you know what you're saying.

 

[Royce Greasy]

This kind of head in the sands denial that Fedor factually made a colossal and easily avoidable mistake against Werdum is exactly why it's hard to take some of you guys seriously.

I mean, do you really think Fedor just magically was never submitted at any other point in his career out of sheer dumb luck or because Werdum was really that much better than every other grappler he ever fought? Despite Werdum being outgrappled by Nog in their first fight or Monson also being a BJJ world champ?

Fedor made a dumb mistake. It cost him. That's fighting.

I said I wouldn't respond but since you are making a legit
critique, the point for me wasn't about Fedor's losses after 2010 its always been about the body of work during his prime years in Pride.


The Werdum loss was 10 years later and guess what Fedor looks like shit against Rogers in 2009, which means he was regressing and this is further supported by his trainers. By the time of the Werdum fight Fedor was a completely different fighter sloppy and careless because he the spark wasn't there anymore at that point having competed for 10 years at that point in mma and Sambo/Judo, as for the fight itself to me he was winging it and thought he could simply go head first into Werdum's guard much like he did against Nog in Pride it was an error and he actually escaped barely the first time to do it once again so he was taking Werdum for granted but with all that said at that point he was just asking to take a loss and in reality it should have been Rogers to dethrone him the fact that he made it out of that fight was amazing.


Point is it had nothing to do with how great Werdum is or was because Nog absolutely battered Werdum, if you don't think Nog couldn't triangle Fedor you're naive its just that it was a different time in his career and preparation was more on point he was 5 years into his career against Nog vs 10 years against Werdum big difference also Werdum started fighting later and was actually just starting to peak during the Fedor win and if Werdum is better on the ground than Nog its not by much also that rematch they had in UFC was BS by that point Nog was a zombie with brain damage.

 

[TheBulge]

So you do in fact think you the nobody never was on sherdog is better at martial arts, gameplanning than Fedor the goat HW LOL.

This is a new level of stupid and I won't be responding anymore, so by your logic anyone who goes into someones guard and gets triangled is an amateur is that right, so all the competitors at ADCC that get caught are rookies you should have a big neon sign saying I'm a noob and don't know anything besides UFC.

Fedor didn't just go into Werdum's guard and got triangled.

He went into his guard and triangled and managed to escape. Then, he went into his guard and got triangled AGAIN. This time he didn't get out.

Fedor's fight IQ was always terrible unless he didn't underestimate a striker like Schilt, Hunt, Cro Cop. He got away with it for so long because all of his opponents were one dimensional old timers from a primitive MMA era. Fedor never beat 1 great, allround MMA fighter. He was well rounded himself so if one trick didn't work, he'd go for his other trick and his opponent would have no answer. And then Strikeforce happened.