Genetics.

[TeTe]

I kind of disagree with that. I think a lot depends on size. I have been 25-26+ fairly consistently but with a higher BF (20-30%) without ever using gear (tho I agree that PED use is rife in MMA and many other sports).

That whole FFMI thing isn't a be all end all measurement. I agree with that for sure. But it's not a terrible thing to use as a ballpark.

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

I've heard that before, not sure where...but I think that's bullshit.

For example, someone like Francis Ngannou. Let's pretend he's natural because there's a logical reason and good chance he is (dirt poor, from Cameroon, Africa).

Plugging him in at: 6'3, 255, 12% BF = 28.11 on the FFMI calculator.

Let's pretend he's actually 6'4, well that comes out to 27.37.

Now at 15% BF, it's 26.44.

So if he's actually 6'4 and is actually ~15% BF at the confirmed weights of ~253-260 which he's weighed in at, then he's still reaching that very few, elite range or is a bit over it technically. Makes sense, he's obviously genetically gifted. But I think there's other guys like him at varying heights that can pack on muscle and be relatively lean naturally. I don't think the FFMI, much like BMI, is not an accurate tool and it's kind of some psuedo-science bullshit.

I think a ton of athletes are on steroids/PEDs, specifically in the NFL and olympics, probably in MMA and even under USADA, but I also think there's a counter-warped perception of what is achievable naturally. Not everyone is going to look like Francis Ngannou obviously, or even say Eric Bugenhagen (lol) but I think it's very plausible each guy is 100% natural. Wouldn't floor me if both guys were on steroids either though. I just think FFMI 25-26 as some scientific law is stupid, and I've heard it before...can't recall where.

I think it's ridiculous when people claim Ngannou is on roids with such absolute certainty as if naturally building that physique is impossible. Sure, it's a lot more difficult at that height but it's certainly achievable with good genetics. From a bodybuilding perspective, he's not even as impressive as say, Cheick Kongo, who has broader shoulders and thicker arms and pecs.

I doubt these guys are on gear, but people insist they're all on it because "roids are cheap in Africa". Yeah, they're lifting with homemade gym equipment but they can afford syringes and test (not to mention all the expensive ancillaries)? So much whining from genetically mediocre men who can't accept that some guys can make bigger gains natty than they do while enhanced.

 

[Cole train]

I think it's ridiculous when people claim Ngannou is on roids with such absolute certainty as if naturally building that physique is impossible. Sure, it's a lot more difficult at that height but it's certainly achievable with good genetics. From a bodybuilding perspective, he's not even as impressive as say, Cheick Kongo, who has broader shoulders and thicker arms and pecs.

I doubt these guys are on gear, but people insist they're all on it because "roids are cheap in Africa". Yeah, they're lifting with homemade gym equipment but they can afford syringes and test (not to mention all the expensive ancillaries)? So much whining from genetically mediocre men who can't accept that some guys can make bigger gains natty than they do while enhanced.

They dont use roids in mma to build muscle

Its more to recover

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

They dont use roids in mma to build muscle

Its more to recover

"It's only for recovery" is a fallacy. Listen to this tidbit from Max Aita (timestamped, but the whole episode is worth listening to)


It's for weightlifting, but the same principles apply to other sports.

 

[Phlog]

"It's only for recovery" is a fallacy. Listen to this tidbit from Max Aita (timestamped, but the whole episode is worth listening to)


It's for weightlifting, but the same principles apply to other sports.

It's not only for recovery, but you'd be amazed at how much easier your recovery is when you're using some performance enhancing drugs. When your training is really grueling it can make the difference between night and day.

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

It's not only for recovery, but you'd be amazed at how much easier your recovery is when you're using some performance enhancing drugs. When your training is really grueling it can make the difference between night and day.

Yeah, the recovery benefits are substantial but using that as an excuse downplays the direct impact of steroids to sports performance. It is used to imply that they're only taking it to "recover" from grueling skill sessions instead of reaping strength and conditioning gains. They made an interesting point about Ilya Ilyin on that podcast. Once the world's best weightlifter he is now pale shadow of what he was before his drug suspension. Not only is his strength weaker off drugs, but his technique has gone to shit. His actual mastery of the movement degraded now that he's a natty under increased scrutiny.

 

[Phlog]

Yeah, the recovery benefits are substantial but using that as an excuse downplays the direct impact of steroids to sports performance. It is used to imply that they're only taking it to "recover" from grueling skill sessions instead of reaping strength and conditioning gains. They made an interesting point about Ilya Ilyin on that podcast. Once the world's best weightlifter he is now pale shadow of what he was before his drug suspension. Not only is his strength weaker off drugs, but his technique has gone to shit. His actual mastery of the movement degraded now that he's a natty under increased scrutiny.

That's interesting, studies of Russian Olympic shot putt athletes and rowers who used, that I've seen, showed they retained more strength and mass than clean athletes into old age.

Although actually thinking on it that fits fine.