Genetics.

[Phlog]

JF Caron said he had never trained for strongman, just worked on the farm before a friend of his asked him to take part in a strongman comp, he came 17th out of 30 odd and beat all the guys from his region. 4 years later he was at world's strongest Man.

Mark Felix never deadlifted before his first comp prep, just lots of bodybuilding and back, he knew there was a 250kg deadlift so tried it and managed 3 reps. In comp two weeks later he pulled 14 reps.

Ronnie Coleman says be didn't really start taking bodybuilding seriously until he won his first Mr Olympia.

Strongman is littered with stories of guys who just started at an elite level. Caron, referenced an expert who said there are maybe 2000 guys on earth right now who could be elite strongmen.

I see these guys and have always assumed they are on all the gear, but I'm starting to believe guys, I'm starting to hope there's just super freaks.

As an aside, Laurence Shalaei is doing a series of interviews with strongmen, it's fucking great and there's a bunch out already:

 

[Halge]

Well, working on a farm makes you strong.

Not that it explains why it'd make you strong enough to beat a bunch of other guys who also likely work on farms...

 

[Phlog]

Well, working on a farm makes you strong.

Not that it explains why it'd make you strong enough to beat a bunch of other guys who also likely work on farms...

And who actively trained strongman! And to be a WSM contestant in 4 yrs!

 

[Blake_UK]

It's not really a controversial point. At the extreme end of any physical activity the vast majority of competitors will be naturally gifted for that particular discipline. Some people are just naturally strong or fast etc.

Through hard work/training/nutrition etc lots of ordinary people can be good but they will likely never be great. I think there is some argument that engagement with physical exercise in childhood makes a difference ie your farm boys etc (which is why sports are so important for kids) but again there are countless athletes who grew up impoverished (shit nutrition etc) who were absolute beasts.

You need good genes AND good everything else.

 

[Grenz]

I remember reading a quote by some old coach in one of Dan John's books, to paraphrase "If you're not world class after 4 years of training, you're never going to reach that level".

 

[belph]

I remember reading a quote by some old coach in one of Dan John's books, to paraphrase "If you're not world class after 4 years of training, you're never going to reach that level".

Good rule to follow. Just give up after four years.

 

[DEVILsSON]

Genetics play a disproportionate role for sure in sports performance at elite levels. I have met a couple such people. One impressive guy I met was a D1 5'10 Caucasian soccer player who could do 360 running dunks at will. He also easily dunked standstill. It was one of the most impressive things I have seen at a rec center playing hoops. He never trained or did anything but play soccer when I talked to him. He came to play hoops at my university rec center just to relax and break a sweat. I was easily MUCH stronger than him but because he was so explosive, I had zero ability to control/guard him.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Genetics are a crapshoot. When most people think of genetics they are thinking of the explosive potential of an athlete. The fact is game theory, strategy, hand eye coordination, balance, will to win and im missing a lot more could all be said to be genetics. Being explosive 30inch vertical or greater obviously gives you an advantage but its not the end all be all because we can all point out athletes who have reached elite levels without being very explosive or short NBA players like Mugsy, mark Jackson, Steve Nash or even big guys who had zero leaping ability like Zach Randolph and Sam Perkins. Drilling technique in sports until you are bored stiff from doing so could also be considered as having good genetics(desire)to win because you will have better technique in whatever sport you are playing.

it seems this discussion comes up quite a bit on this forum

 

[JimRussel]

I see these guys and have always assumed they are on all the gear, but I'm starting to believe guys, I'm starting to hope there's just super freaks.

They are all on steroids. They’re genetic outliers who also happen to use AAS.

 

[RR010V]

They are all on steroids. They’re genetic outliers who also happen to use AAS.

True, you can never get as big as Ronnie Coleman or as athletic as Bo Jackson even with steroids. Its the combination of hard work, a good diet, good genetics and steroids.

 

[Grenz]

Good rule to follow. Just give up after four years.

I think what’s implied is that there’s no point in trying to get on the Olympic podium if your genetic predispositions aren’t far above average. Strive to be the best you can be, but realize that 1 million hours of e.g. practicing basketball isn’t enough to cut it in the NBA for 99.9% of us. Then you look at Michael Jordan and he didn’t even start seriously playing until his late teens. Hard work has its limits in terms of where it can take you. At least that’s what I took from it.

 

[A.S. Deep]

Genetics are weird. Sometimes someone will look the part of "strong" or "explosive." And sometimes they won't at all.

Ex:

My dad in his 40s (NEVER lifted) casually did a strict 135 lbs overhead press. And he looks like a typical skinny fat, middle-aged dude lol.

Not a crazy lift by any means, but for a guy in his 40s who basically never touched a weight before, that's good. For reference, on the opposite end, you have people who think of a 135lbs Military Press as a lift they need 1 - 2 years to "train" for.

 

[vision1]

... but realize that 1 million hours of e.g. practicing basketball isn’t enough to cut it in the NBA for 99.9% of us.

Give me 1 million hours and I'll beat MJ 1v1 no doubt

 

[belph]

I think what’s implied is that there’s no point in trying to get on the Olympic podium if your genetic predispositions aren’t far above average. Strive to be the best you can be, but realize that 1 million hours of e.g. practicing basketball isn’t enough to cut it in the NBA for 99.9% of us. Then you look at Michael Jordan and he didn’t even start seriously playing until his late teens. Hard work has its limits in terms of where it can take you. At least that’s what I took from it.

I agree with that, I just wanted to rag on the four year thing. Like how many people are actually world class in four years?

 

[Grenz]

I agree with that, I just wanted to rag on the four year thing. Like how many people are actually world class in four years?

I don't know dude, just what some old time coach said. I think the point is more that only very few of us have the inherent qualities to be elite, whereas the vast majority of us can reach a relatively high level of performance with hard work, but it's still not going to be enough to keep up with those who were literally born to run, lift, throw, etc.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Using examples of strongmen isn't exactly the best way to frame "natural genetics" of being strong. Of course genetics play a role. But you're referencing behemoth men doing tasks that aren't exactly amazing.

Caron was probably 6'3 270-300lbs and he worked on a farm. Is it really crazy that he was able to finish 17th out of 30 in an am/regional strongman competition? Not really.

Mark Felix was a "dedicated bodybuilder" for awhile according to his wiki, so he was probably on gear prior to doing strongman, he was probably 6'3 around 300 lbs and already trained prior to deadlifting 500+ lbs for those reps. Not exactly insane to me.

Nah they are all on gear, not sure how what you're saying proves otherwise. Every strongman competitor is using steroids/HGH and other shit, every bodybuilder is on stacks of roids and HGH/insulin, etc. How is that even debatable at this point?

 

[Phlog]

Using examples of strongmen isn't exactly the best way to frame "natural genetics" of being strong. Of course genetics play a role. But you're referencing behemoth men doing tasks that aren't exactly amazing.

Caron was probably 6'3 270-300lbs and he worked on a farm. Is it really crazy that he was able to finish 17th out of 30 in an am/regional strongman competition? Not really.

Mark Felix was a "dedicated bodybuilder" for awhile according to his wiki, so he was probably on gear prior to doing strongman, he was probably 6'3 around 300 lbs and already trained prior to deadlifting 500+ lbs for those reps. Not exactly insane to me.

Nah they are all on gear, not sure how what you're saying proves otherwise. Every strongman competitor is using steroids/HGH and other shit, every bodybuilder is on stacks of roids and HGH/insulin, etc. How is that even debatable at this point?

Never deadlifting then hitting 250kg for 14 is pretty crazy.

I think you're underestimating the amount of technique that is in strongman events.

All that said I guess I might be starting to believe that there are some guys out there who ain't on everything under the sun. I ain't saying they're natty.

Eddie Hall for example says he has the myostatin mutation that produces double the muscle in the Belgian Blue cattle, I'm of a mind to believe him, those things don't even lift and they're absolutely stacked. Doesn't mean I don't think he's used lots of gear, just that he is genetically a freak also.

Like some guys are real tall or short or whatever, there are extremes in response to training. Not just benefits, extremes.

 

[wufabufa]

Never deadlifting then hitting 250kg for 140is pretty crazy.

I think you're underestimating the amount of technique that is in strongman events.

All that said I guess I might be starting to believe that there are some guys out there who ain't on everything under the sun. I ain't saying they're natty.

Eddie Hall for example says he has the myostatin mutation that produces double the muscle in the Belgian Blue cattle, I'm of a mind to believe him, those things don't even lift and they're absolutely stacked. Doesn't mean I don't think he's used lots of gear, just that he is genetically a freak also.

Like some guys are real tall or short or whatever, there are extremes in response to training. Not just benefits, extremes.

Eddie Hall says a lot of stuff. The same thing was said about Richard Sandrak and look how that kid turned out. He's also stripped a shit ton of muscle mass off his body since he quit strongman competitions. Another feat that would be incredibly tough with such a mutation.

If he really did have a myostatin deficiency his body would look much different. Humans that actually do have that mutation are barely 5ft tall in stature and have significant cognitive impairments as they never have enough body fat as a child to ensure proper brain development. The majority of their caloric intake is spent gaining muscle mass as their body just can't turn it off. Eddie is an idiot and confabulates constantly, but by scientific standards he isn't a retarded midget......however, by SherBro standards Eddie is indeed a retarded midget.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Never deadlifting then hitting 250kg for 140is pretty crazy.

I think you're underestimating the amount of technique that is in strongman events.

All that said I guess I might be starting to believe that there are some guys out there who ain't on everything under the sun. I ain't saying they're natty.

Eddie Hall for example says he has the myostatin mutation that produces double the muscle in the Belgian Blue cattle, I'm of a mind to believe him, those things don't even lift and they're absolutely stacked. Doesn't mean I don't think he's used lots of gear, just that he is genetically a freak also.

Like some guys are real tall or short or whatever, there are extremes in response to training. Not just benefits, extremes.

How do we know Felix never deadlifted? He was a "dedicated" Bodybuilder for years prior to doing Strongman, I guess we can go off his word but it seems odd to bodybuild seriously for likely many years and never deadlift at all. I think it's also very safe to assume steroid use if he was a serious bodybuilder, and obviously considering he moved to strongman at age 37.

Regardless, let's pretend neither are a factor. I just don't think it's that wild for someone to do a less than 2x bodyweight deadlift for 4 reps, train technique probably and then hit 14 reps on either a legit deadlift or an implement that is probably less ROM. It's impressive if true, but it's not outlandish to me.

I'm sure you could get Shaq to deadlift at age 37, having never done it before or very rarely, and he could pull 600 pounds easily. We saw Fury deadlift a lot with semi-shitty form and I doubt he regularly does it. They are just massive people.

Relative strength is kind of being ignored in that example and it matters. Again the dude is a 300lber with a big enough frame to be a pro-top tier strongman. Plenty (all?) of the top strongman are pulling 800-900-1000+ lbs off the floor, so 550lbs isn't insane.

Eddie Hall is a talker. I like him but he's a bullshitter. yeah he has endless muscle growth like a mutated cow lmao, okay. He's just a genetically thick ass guy, who's big, and on tons of fucking gear/HGH and trains hard. "Some guys are real tall or short..." Are they though? I can't think of any Strongmen who are a the top levels that aren't at minimum ~6'0-6'3 and if they are they have to be extremely thick frame wise. All of these guys are genetic mutant giants. That's...kind of what the sport is. It's a sport of absolute strength, not relative strength with weight classes.

Marius and Eddie are both listed at 6'1 and 6'3. Maybe they're actually 5'11 to 6 feet ish in reality, who knows...but it's not like there's many 5'4-5'10 strongmen just prancing around or slender skinny frame Jon Jones, NBA like guys there. So genetics clearly play a factor - yes, and on top of that all of these competitors are on steroids/HGH+, none of them are natural athletes it's extremely naive to think otherwise.

 

[Phlog]

How do we know Felix never deadlifted? He was a "dedicated" Bodybuilder for years prior to doing Strongman, I guess we can go off his word but it seems odd to bodybuild seriously for likely many years and never deadlift at all. I think it's also very safe to assume steroid use if he was a serious bodybuilder, and obviously considering he moved to strongman at age 37.

Regardless, let's pretend neither are a factor. I just don't think it's that wild for someone to do a less than 2x bodyweight deadlift for 4 reps, train technique probably and then hit 14 reps on either a legit deadlift or an implement that is probably less ROM. It's impressive if true, but it's not outlandish to me.

I'm sure you could get Shaq to deadlift at age 37, having never done it before or very rarely, and he could pull 600 pounds easily. We saw Fury deadlift a lot with semi-shitty form and I doubt he regularly does it. They are just massive people.

Relative strength is kind of being ignored in that example and it matters. Again the dude is a 300lber with a big enough frame to be a pro-top tier strongman. Plenty (all?) of the top strongman are pulling 800-900-1000+ lbs off the floor, so 550lbs isn't insane.

Eddie Hall is a talker. I like him but he's a bullshitter. yeah he has endless muscle growth like a mutated cow lmao, okay. He's just a genetically thick ass guy, who's big, and on tons of fucking gear/HGH and trains hard. "Some guys are real tall or short..." Are they though? I can't think of any Strongmen who are a the top levels that aren't at minimum ~6'0-6'3 and if they are they have to be extremely thick frame wise. All of these guys are genetic mutant giants. That's...kind of what the sport is. It's a sport of absolute strength, not relative strength with weight classes.

Marius and Eddie are both listed at 6'1 and 6'3. Maybe they're actually 5'11 to 6 feet ish in reality, who knows...but it's not like there's many 5'4-5'10 strongmen just prancing around or slender skinny frame Jon Jones, NBA like guys there. So genetics clearly play a factor - yes, and on top of that all of these competitors are on steroids/HGH+, none of them are natural athletes it's extremely naive to think otherwise.

Felix said he didn't and if you met him or even knew of him, you'd know he ain't a bullshitter. If he says so I believe him. He pulled 250 for 3, put it down then two weeks later pulled it 14 times in comp. He's 310lbs now, ain't likely he was near that in his first comp back in the early 2000's, but I don't know for sure, would be good to ask him. He wasn't a pro or anything.

Rob Kearney is legit and 5'9"

A natural athlete in strongman terms ain't the same as athlete in normal terms.

But I get where you're coming from. Also yes Eddie Hall is full of shit.