Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

[idrankyourbeer]

Frozencpu.com is going out of business and is offering 50% off with code SAVENOW.
There’s some EKWB, Noctua, Phanteks, and AlphaCool products.

their shipping prices are usually ridiculous though.

 

[Nameless King]

AMD officially knocked out Intel a while ago in processor department. Now they after Nvidia and give 2-3 more years I believe Nvidia will be just knocked out as Intel was. Mark my words people.

Intel had monopoly for a good while so Nvidia. But in my opinion Intel failed because they thought too highly of themselves and imo didnt push the next gen fast enough trying to milk it first. Im hoping AMD now starts creeping up on Nvidia now cuz Nvidia appears to follow similar path of milking the market.

I was avid Intel fan for the last 20+ years, no more.

 

[WhiteMousse]

Guys what are your thoughts on liquid cooling? Like a cycle with a reservoir and pump?

 

[JBSchroeds]

Guys what are your thoughts on liquid cooling? Like a cycle with a reservoir and pump?

My unimportant opinion:
Unless you are doing something that very specifically requires it (overclocking, running the tippiest top top top tier SKU, you live at the equator and your ambient temps are regularly 100+) then all you're doing is adding failure points into your system. A top-end air cooling setup can handle even "enthusiast grade" parts and it won't leak. But if you think it looks fun/cool and are willing to accept the drawbacks (aforementioned danger of leaking, a PIA to upgrade due to needing to drain the loop, significantly more complex and expensive to setup) then all the power to you.

 

[Madmick]

AMD officially knocked out Intel a while ago in processor department. Now they after Nvidia and give 2-3 more years I believe Nvidia will be just knocked out as Intel was. Mark my words people.

Intel had monopoly for a good while so Nvidia. But in my opinion Intel failed because they thought too highly of themselves and imo didnt push the next gen fast enough trying to milk it first. Im hoping AMD now starts creeping up on Nvidia now cuz Nvidia appears to follow similar path of milking the market.

I was avid Intel fan for the last 20+ years, no more.

What are you talking about?

First, AMD has definitely not KO'd Intel in the processor department. Intel has nearly monopolized the best gaming CPU at every price point for the past 3 years. Intel currently retains the best editing processor in the world. Intel held the gaming CPU crown from Nov-2021 to Feb-2023.

Second, it was only partly Intel's arrogance that resulted in the stagnation of their design. Perhaps a bigger factor was their long-term strategy investing their efforts in an increasingly complex instruction set architecture whereas AMD, which never could have competed on those grounds, pursued the older, but simpler strategy of pursuing higher frequencies (while expanding cores). The latter strategy paid off. CISC is sputtering. For that very reason, the ARM manufacturers have caught up to the desktop royalty of AMD and Intel at a speed nobody expected, and that's who both are probably most worried about, not each other. Apple shits on Intel and AMD once you shrink the die size and the power consumption/limit. The M series is arguably the preeminent processor line in the world. Once you marry near parity of ARM processors to Chinese end-to-end ownership, from IP to manufacturing to retail, suddenly everything will be in peril, including servers.

As Steve Burke himself has pointed out, the reason CPU prices are so attractive to gamers right now is precisely because competition is so lively in the processor sector. Conversely, NVIDIA is so far ahead of AMD, and AMD so far ahead of everybody else, that they can effectively dictate GPU prices to the global market, and we'll pay whatever they ask. It's a de facto copacetic cooperative monopoly at this point. AMD is a little bit nicer with their pricing than NVIDIA, but only because they're the beta corporation. If you look at MSRP trends, they've done the same thing NVIDIA has, just to a lesser degree.

 

[mixmastermo]

What are you talking about?

First, AMD has definitely not KO'd Intel in the processor department. Intel has nearly monopolized the best gaming CPU at every price point for the past 3 years. Intel currently retains the best editing processor in the world. Intel held the gaming CPU crown from Nov-2021 to Feb-2023.

Second, it was only partly Intel's arrogance that resulted in the stagnation of their design. Perhaps a bigger factor was their long-term strategy investing their efforts in an increasingly complex instruction set architecture whereas AMD, which never could have competed on those grounds, pursued the older, but simpler strategy of pursuing higher frequencies (while expanding cores). The latter strategy paid off. CISC is sputtering. For that very reason, the ARM manufacturers have caught up to the desktop royalty of AMD and Intel at a speed nobody expected, and that's who both are probably most worried about, not each other. Apple shits on Intel and AMD once you shrink the die size and the power consumption/limit. The M series is arguably the preeminent processor line in the world. Once you marry near parity of ARM processors to Chinese end-to-end ownership, from IP to manufacturing to retail, suddenly everything will be in peril, including servers.

As Steve Burke himself has pointed out, the reason CPU prices are so attractive to gamers right now is precisely because competition is so lively in the processor sector. Conversely, NVIDIA is so far ahead of AMD, and AMD so far ahead of everybody else, that they can effectively dictate GPU prices to the global market, and we'll pay whatever they ask. It's a de facto copacetic cooperative monopoly at this point. AMD is a little bit nicer with their pricing than NVIDIA, but only because they're the beta corporation. If you look at MSRP trends, they've done the same thing NVIDIA has, just to a lesser degree.

Thanks for detailing this. Specifically I don't see where th guy was making the assumption AMD would beat Nvidia. Nvidia has been way ahead for some time now.

 

[Nameless King]

Thanks for detailing this. Specifically I don't see where th guy was making the assumption AMD would beat Nvidia. Nvidia has been way ahead for some time now.

No i mean there was a period of time where top 10 gpus were only Nvidia, only recently you now see AMD up in top 5 department.

 

[Nameless King]

What are you talking about?

First, AMD has definitely not KO'd Intel in the processor department. Intel has nearly monopolized the best gaming CPU at every price point for the past 3 years. Intel currently retains the best editing processor in the world. Intel held the gaming CPU crown from Nov-2021 to Feb-2023.

Second, it was only partly Intel's arrogance that resulted in the stagnation of their design. Perhaps a bigger factor was their long-term strategy investing their efforts in an increasingly complex instruction set architecture whereas AMD, which never could have competed on those grounds, pursued the older, but simpler strategy of pursuing higher frequencies (while expanding cores). The latter strategy paid off. CISC is sputtering. For that very reason, the ARM manufacturers have caught up to the desktop royalty of AMD and Intel at a speed nobody expected, and that's who both are probably most worried about, not each other. Apple shits on Intel and AMD once you shrink the die size and the power consumption/limit. The M series is arguably the preeminent processor line in the world. Once you marry near parity of ARM processors to Chinese end-to-end ownership, from IP to manufacturing to retail, suddenly everything will be in peril, including servers.

As Steve Burke himself has pointed out, the reason CPU prices are so attractive to gamers right now is precisely because competition is so lively in the processor sector. Conversely, NVIDIA is so far ahead of AMD, and AMD so far ahead of everybody else, that they can effectively dictate GPU prices to the global market, and we'll pay whatever they ask. It's a de facto copacetic cooperative monopoly at this point. AMD is a little bit nicer with their pricing than NVIDIA, but only because they're the beta corporation. If you look at MSRP trends, they've done the same thing NVIDIA has, just to a lesser degree.

At least you can't deny that when you are on the top for a good while you slowly becoming complacent.

 

[Madmick]

No i mean there was a period of time where top 10 gpus were only Nvidia, only recently you now see AMD up in top 5 department.

You're confusing price points with the race for supremacy itself. As you'll sometimes hear tech nerds around the web say about Intel or AMD, "They only make one CPU." A bit of an oversimplification, but it's to illustrate a greater truth. That's the silicon disc resembling a puck they manufacture. This is the yield of their current capability in the fabrication process. The question is how they segment it, and how much of it they unlock to be used. They choose that based on the price point of the product they sell to the consumer.

I don't believe the margin between NVIDIA's top GPU and AMD's has ever been greater than it is right now in terms of flagship performance. This has been widening for several generations. Furthermore, NVIDIA maintains a market share greater than 80%. There is no indication AMD is any position to disrupt their lead anytime soon.

 

[WhiteMousse]

7 7800X3D already down to $509.00 from $575.00. Hope the scalpers go homeless

 

[Nameless King]

There is no indication AMD is any position to disrupt their lead anytime soon.

Is it really?

I am loving AMD becoming a serious threat to Nvidia and Intel. That means more price wars that will eventually benefit us

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/amd-announces-radeon-pro-gpus-with-32gb-and-48gb-of-gddr6

 

[Madmick]

Is it really?

I am loving AMD becoming a serious threat to Nvidia and Intel. That means more price wars that will eventually benefit us

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/amd-announces-radeon-pro-gpus-with-32gb-and-48gb-of-gddr6

No, AMD is way behind. Those are workstation GPUs. Those compete with these:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/rtx-6000/
https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/...roviz-print-rtx6000-datasheet-web-2504660.pdf
61 TFLOPS in the AMD W7900 vs. 91 TFLOPs in the NVIDIA RTX 6000.

 

[Madmick]

Intel Arc flashback:

Techpowerup has a page for the Intel Arc A770....This is what has me confused. Those specs are way, way beyond the RTX 3060 to which Intel is comparing it.

As you know, I always refer to the architecture...On paper, it's closest analogue is the RTX 3070 Ti on the NVIDIA side, and the RX 6800 on the AMD side (per the latter, Intel also appears to have a 16GB version of the A770 in store).

So...are Intel's drivers really that bad? Are they costing them that much performance even in DX12 and Vulkan? If so, that's insane.

It really is eye-opening to how much we take for granted on the software-side from NVIDIA and AMD when you see how godawful the Intel drivers are. Shows up when you see how much worse the relative performance is at 1080p vs. 1440p against the 3060, for example (where the massive advantage in hardware pipelines is able to make up for the atrocious drivers as the resolution increases). The A770, if powered by AMD drivers, would outperform the RX 6800 at the top of these charts.
https://www.techspot.com/review/2542-intel-arc-a770-a750/

Performance on DX11 is atrocious. Even Intel doesn't deny this. They devote all their energy to talking about DX12 performance which is obviously still pitiful considering the A770 is on par with the RX 6600 at 1080p, and the RX 6600 XT at 1440p.

The lone silver lining for the Arc cards is that, in the long run, maybe 3-4 years down the road, if Intel has caught up their driver sophistication, the A770 should perform on par with the RX 6800 and RTX 3070 Ti (which start at $510 and $610, respectively, today), and will carry 8GB-16GB of VRAM to go along with that. But that's a maybe, and that's a long way away. Expect suffering until then, and RX 6600ish performance along the way.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flash forward to today. Intel is truly hustling to be relevant.
Intel Arc GPUs Get Another Major Performance-Boosting Driver, Up To 63% Improvement Across Latest AAA Games

As per recent Game On Drivers from Intel, the company wants to ensure gamers that the performance of its graphics cards, ray tracing capabilities, and PPD, or Performance Per Dollar, is superior to NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 3060 12GB GPU....

Except today, in terms of outright performance, we're not talking about the A770 catching up to the 3060, anymore. We're talking about the A750 beating it:

Performance per USD shows that in the Intel-optimized Total War: Warhammer III DLC, Mirror of Madness, the company increases 62 to 72 percent compared to NVIDIA's GPU. Remember that the Intel Arc A750 GPU is currently $249, and NVIDIA's RTX 3060 12 GB is averaging $388.

That's how fast Intel's GPU performance is progressing just from drivers. They've been rolling out constant patches, and this has included two major driver overhauls that focused on improving DX11 and DX9 performance, respectively (both delivered as promised). Those updates also provided massive boosts to overall performance.

This update is more game-specific than the previous two, but this article conveys how quickly Intel is catching up the firmware to leverage the market-leading bang-for-your-buck they put out in terms of hardware. It's still not a product anyone should recommend, Intel is still too green, but it is a headline that should hearten gamer's eyeing the future.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Guys what are your thoughts on liquid cooling? Like a cycle with a reservoir and pump?

I have a custom loop a put in my system that cools the cpu and gpu. I built it in 2017 and it still holds up great running modern games. It runs cool and is quieter than a normal PC.

I think it cost me like 400 bucks in 2017. If you’re looking to put one in I would say it’s not worth the money for the performance alone. I would recommend it only if you enjoy putting it together and want it for the aesthetics. It does look cool.

 

[My Spot]

7 7800X3D already down to $509.00 from $575.00. Hope the scalpers go homeless

People scalp CPUs?

 

[WhiteMousse]

People scalp CPUs?

Evidently dude

 

[WhiteMousse]

I have a custom loop a put in my system that cools the cpu and gpu. I built it in 2017 and it still holds up great running modern games. It runs cool and is quieter than a normal PC.

I think it cost me like 400 bucks in 2017. If you’re looking to put one in I would say it’s not worth the money for the performance alone. I would recommend it only if you enjoy putting it together and want it for the aesthetics. It does look cool.

The looks is the primary reason I'm thinking about it. Do you have any advice? The way these guys angle the plastic is crazy

 

[Blayt7hh]

The looks is the primary reason I'm thinking about it. Do you have any advice? The way these guys angle the plastic is crazy

I did soft tubing on that build. I was intimidated by the hard tuning process. Now that I’ve done one, I am planning to do hard tubing on the next pc I build

You could always get both and try hard tubing first. If it becomes to much just throw the soft tuning in. A lot of people do it though so it probably just takes patience

 

[JBSchroeds]

The looks is the primary reason I'm thinking about it. Do you have any advice? The way these guys angle the plastic is crazy

Patience, and a willingness to accept that fucking it up the first few times is part of learning. Not that I've done it myself, but I've done similar sorts of crafting type projects, and the one thing they tend to have in common is that the first attempt goes in the trash can.

Oh, also: plan your routing so that it's almost all 90 degree bends, if you can. Way easier to cut long, then trim to length when there's not a complex angle involved.

 

[mixmastermo]

You're confusing price points with the race for supremacy itself. As you'll sometimes hear tech nerds around the web say about Intel or AMD, "They only make one CPU." A bit of an oversimplification, but it's to illustrate a greater truth. That's the silicon disc resembling a puck they manufacture. This is the yield of their current capability in the fabrication process. The question is how they segment it, and how much of it they unlock to be used. They choose that based on the price point of the product they sell to the consumer.

I don't believe the margin between NVIDIA's top GPU and AMD's has ever been greater than it is right now in terms of flagship performance. This has been widening for several generations. Furthermore, NVIDIA maintains a market share greater than 80%. There is no indication AMD is any position to disrupt their lead anytime soon.

Is it really?

I am loving AMD becoming a serious threat to Nvidia and Intel. That means more price wars that will eventually benefit us

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/amd-announces-radeon-pro-gpus-with-32gb-and-48gb-of-gddr6

Do AMD GPUs even have tensor cores?

I believe they were working on that...

Anyway basically that's one of the main reasons Nvidia isn't giving up their lewd anytime soon. AMD is not a threat.