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Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

Madmick said:
Speaking of super-thick fans, not sure if anyone else caught this recent review, but the Fractal Torrent is the new belle of the ball. It's on the luxury end.
Click to expand...

Yesterday when i saw your post was wondering what idiot would stack that many fans for intake at the bottom. Isometric view doesnt really showcase how much clearance the bottom has with its elevate legs.
 
KaNesDeath said:
Yesterday when i saw your post was wondering what idiot would stack that many fans for intake at the bottom. Isometric view doesnt really showcase how much clearance the bottom has with its elevate legs.
Click to expand...

  • Case dimensions (LxWxH)
    544 x 242 x 530 mm
  • Case dimensions w/o feet/protrusions/screws
    525 x 242 x 495 mm
from their website
 
KaNesDeath said:
Yesterday when i saw your post was wondering what idiot would stack that many fans for intake at the bottom. Isometric view doesnt really showcase how much clearance the bottom has with its elevate legs.
Click to expand...
That idiot would be one of the finest case manufacturers in the world, and as I referenced in my brief comments on the case, the precedent for bottom intake that robust is in the Cooler Master SL600M which still boasts better stock GPU thermals than any other case GamersNexus has ever tested.

A more common criticism from reviewers was the lack of a rear fan included at stock, but with that honeycomb back panel unfettered (by even a mesh filter), in concert with the closed top panel, while I also recommend adding a fan in the back based on theoretical principle, I doubt it will practically make a significant difference. A rear fan will stabilize that front-to-back air channel, but all the air will be pushed (however aimlessly) in that direction, anyway. I suspect Fractal tested this fastidiously.

There is really no more appropriate case to analogize than the Cooler Master SL600M. By moving the PSU to the top and only including drive mounts behind the motherboard Fractal has created a design so radical it seems nearly alien compared to the rest of the market. Both also target the luxury end with a ~$200 MSRP. The Fractal is slightly more traditional with the front-to-back airflow design rather than the south-north chimney design of the SL600M.

Cooler Master SL600M​
vertical-layout-chimney-effect-imageleftorright.png


However, there's another trick in its bag. It even comes with a special mounting bracket so that you can move the front 180mm fans to the bottom, and then swap the 3 x 140mm fans to the front to be used with a custom CPU liquid cooling unit (the kind that don't come with their own fans by default). That's right. You have 420mm cooler fans included by default if you so desire, and want to step up to the ultimate level of mainstream CPU cooler performance with something from a company like EKWB.

It also includes a GPU retention bracket! Baller inclusion. Additionally, the included fan hub is 100% 4-pin fans! It even includes a special locking mechanism for the side panels. Hell, there are built-in velcro cable straps with a grooved recess channel on the rear for you to manage external cables (like from external hard drives). It's a goddamn masterpiece.

While high-airflow cases have become the zeitgeist in the PC building world, there has remained a dearth of options at the luxury end. Fractal just seized control of this market.
 
Madmick said:
That idiot would be one of the finest case manufacturers in the world, and as I referenced in my brief comments on the case, the precedent for bottom intake that robust is in the Cooler Master SL600M which still boasts better stock GPU thermals than any other case GamersNexus has ever tested. A more common criticism from reviewers was the lack of a rear fan included at stock, but with that honeycomb back panel unrestricted by even a mesh filter, and the closed top panel, while I also recommend adding a fan in the back based on theoretical principle, I doubt it will practically make a significant difference. A rear fan will stabilize that front-to-back air channel, but all the air will be pushed (however aimlessly) in that direction, anyway. I suspect Fractal tested this fastidiously.

There is really no more appropriate case to analogize than the Cooler Master SL600M. By moving the PSU to the top and only including drive mounts behind the motherboard Fractal has created a design so radical it seems nearly alien compared to the rest of the market. Both also target the luxury end with a ~$200 MSRP. The Fractal is slightly more traditional with the front-to-back airflow design rather than the south-north chimney design of the SL600M.
vertical-layout-chimney-effect-imageleftorright.png


However, there's another trick in its bag. It even comes with a special mounting bracket so that you can move the front 180mm fans to the bottom, and the 140mm fans to front to be used with a custom liquid cooling unit (the kind that don't come with their own fans by default). That's right. You have a 420mm cooler included by default if you so desire, and want to step up to the next level of CPU cooler performance with something from a company like EKWB.

It also includes a GPU retention bracket! Baller inclusion. Additionally, the included fan hub is 100% 4-pin fans! It even includes a special locking mechanism for the side panels. Hell, there are built-in velcro cable straps with a grooved recess channel on the rear for you to manage external cables (like from external hard drives). It's a goddamn masterpiece.

While high-airflow cases have become the zeitgeist in the PC building world, there has remained a dearth of options at the luxury end. Fractal just seized control of this market.
Click to expand...

Serious question:

What are people doing in terms of overclocking that they need all of that cooling and airflow?

I'm doing fine with a Corsair AIO liquid cooling setup for my i7 9700K (which is not overclocked), 2 case fans and the stock GPU fans on my 3080.

There isn't a single game I own where I can't hit at least 60 FPS at 4K

So.. WTF?
 
mixmastermo said:
Serious question:

What are people doing in terms of overclocking that they need all of that cooling and airflow?

I'm doing fine with a Corsair AIO liquid cooling setup for my i7 9700K (which is not overclocked), 2 case fans and the stock GPU fans on my 3080.

There isn't a single game I own where I can't hit at least 60 FPS at 4K

So.. WTF?
Click to expand...
Bear in mind the 10th/11th gen Intel processors and the Zen 3 AMD processors run much, much hotter than previous generations. AMD and Intel have taken for granted the surge in popularity of high airflow cases and especially aftermarket CPU coolers among the mainstream building communities. They realize there is more and more thermal headroom they need to seize with their processors shipped at stock to be more competitive in benchmark reviews. A decade ago, before this had become normal, but also because of their remarkable lead, Intel in particular left a lot of that performance in reserve, and shipped the processors with conservative clocks to keep heat down. Not so, anymore.

Additionally, the reason you see drive bays relegated to behind the motherboard, and increasingly sparse in mainstream cases, is because 2+ m.2 drives has become standard on the new motherboards. In fact, around the $175 MSRP threshold, it's pretty standard for Z590 and X570/B550 motherboards being released now to include at least 3. These drives are getting faster and faster. That's more heat. So more general airflow is welcome.

Furthermore, think of the GPU. It's not just about CPU temps. It's about GPU. This is where those bottom intake fans pushing air directly at the broad side of the GPU absolutely kill it.

Finally, even if airflow is overkill, don't overlook what GN's fastidious methodology has revealed in the past several years. These high airflow case designs, contrary to what you might assume, often offer the best noise-normalized performance even if measuring outside the cases. So if noise is an issue, just reduce your fan curves, and you'll still yield quieter performance at the same temps than cases built with all solid panels supposedly designed for silence. The latter cases, lately, are really best suited for the non-K processors, because when the fans are running at moderate speeds, the overall noise output is the lowest for any cases, thanks to the solid panels and sound dampening materials, but the key is this is maintainable because the temps don't get out of hand with the non-K processors (or Zen 2 processors), because if the temps get too high it causes the fans to kick up; thus ruining the entire purpose of a "silent" design in the first place.
 
Madmick said:
Bear in mind the 10th/11th gen Intel processors and the Zen 3 AMD processors run much, much hotter than previous generations. AMD and Intel have taken for granted the surge in popularity of high airflow cases and especially aftermarket CPU coolers among the mainstream building communities. They realize there is more and more thermal headroom they need to seize with their processors shipped at stock to be more competitive in benchmark reviews. A decade ago, before this had become normal, but also because of their remarkable lead, Intel in particular left a lot of that performance in reserve, and shipped the processors with conservative clocks to keep heat down. Not so, anymore.

Additionally, the reason you see drive bays relegated to behind the motherboard, and increasingly sparse in mainstream cases, is because 2+ m.2 drives has become standard on the new motherboards. In fact, around the $175 MSRP threshold, it's pretty standard for Z590 and X570/B550 motherboards being released now to include at least 3. These drives are getting faster and faster. That's more heat. So more general airflow is welcome.

Furthermore, think of the GPU. It's not just about CPU temps. It's about GPU. This is where those bottom intake fans pushing air directly at the broad side of the GPU absolutely kill it.

Finally, even if airflow is overkill, don't overlook what GN's fastidious methodology has revealed in the past several years. These high airflow case designs, contrary to what you might assume, often offer the best noise-normalized performance even if measuring outside the cases. So if noise is an issue, just reduce your fan curves, and you'll still yield quieter performance at the same temps than cases built with all solid panels supposedly designed for silence. The latter cases, lately, are really best suited for the non-K processors, because when the fans are running at moderate speeds, the overall noise output is the lowest for any cases, thanks to the solid panels and sound dampening materials, but the key is this is maintainable because the temps don't get out of hand with the non-K processors (or Zen 2 processors), which causes the fans to kick up; thus ruining the entire purpose a "silent" design in the first place.
Click to expand...

Oh ok..
So it's like people were saying "we want to get the max power possible out of out hardware" and chip manufacturers said "we'd love to do that but temps would get out of control" and now you have these over the top cooling solutions...
 
mixmastermo said:
Oh ok..
So it's like people were saying "we want to get the max power possible out of out hardware" and chip manufacturers said "we'd love to do that but temps would get out of control" and now you have these over the top cooling solutions...
Click to expand...
Yeah, if you pour through past reviews, both the peak power usage and thermal output of processors at stock has increased over the past decade. That's due to: (a) the CPU race getting much more competitive in recent years, (b) the increased sophistication in dynamic overclocking aka turbo frequencies, and (3) the awareness of Intel and AMD that more robust cooling has become more commonplace.

On top of that, it's a trend. There has always been fads and trends with case design. GN has clearly taken over as the most influential reviewer in PC hardware when it comes to cases, and Steve has a clear preference for high airflow. I think we all owe him a debt. He has steered us out of the RGB dark ages.
 
My 2070S has been shipped to EVGA and I might have my 3080 by the end of the week. Super excited.
 
mixmastermo said:
Serious question:

What are people doing in terms of overclocking that they need all of that cooling and airflow?

I'm doing fine with a Corsair AIO liquid cooling setup for my i7 9700K (which is not overclocked), 2 case fans and the stock GPU fans on my 3080.

There isn't a single game I own where I can't hit at least 60 FPS at 4K

So.. WTF?
Click to expand...

To give an example of noise like @Madmick mentioned, I use a PC011 Dynamic with 9 fans and run them at 800rpm all the time. My hardware is a 3700x and 1070ti with mild overclocks, temps never get above 80 degrees for either.
 
KaNesDeath said:
What heatsink you use?
Click to expand...
Cooler Master ML240 something, I don't remember the exact model. It's one of their low end AIO's.
When this AIO dies I'm probably going to switch to one of those Barrow cpu block/pump/reservoir combos and a 360mm radiator.
There's also a company called Nouvoio that makes a cpu block that accepts a DDC pump I was looking at as well, but I'd rather have the cpu block/pump/reservoir all in one.

I want something where I can replace the pump but I don't want to do a full custom loop.
 
Last edited:
 
Heads up! Looks like WD is trying to pull a fast one. I fucking hate it when companies do this.

The SN550 has often been the best drive for your money on the SSD market when buying an m.2 drive for a new build (i.e. an OS drive) in the past 18 months or so; maybe more often than any other drive. As you'll note from one of the top comments, Crucial also recently did this with one of the few longtime competitors to the WD SN550: the Crucial P1. The P2 was a nerf of the P1; a sad case where the successor is inferior to its predecessor.
 
Madmick said:
AMD Ryzen 5000 Desktop CPUs Available At Discounted Prices At Major US Retailers

Online
In-Store Only
Click to expand...


I feel like I should pick up a 5600X, but I paid for $150 my 3600 and it seems ridiculous to upgrade honestly.
 
Tigger said:
I feel like I should pick up a 5600X, but I paid for $150 my 3600 and it seems ridiculous to upgrade honestly.
Click to expand...
Definitely not worth it. You'd be upgrading to a dead socket. Wait for the next batch of AMD processors.
 
Intel just secured a deal with TSMC to get the first batch of TSMC 3nm process node ahead of Apple, AMD, Nvidia an others. People where caught off guard how Intel was able to do this an including GPU's an CPU's. Someone speculated Intel stake in extreme UV hardware maker ASML Holding NV forced TSMC to give Intel first dibs.

 
Madmick said:
Definitely not worth it. You'd be upgrading to a dead socket. Wait for the next batch of AMD processors.
Click to expand...

I mean I'm on a B450 board so that's my cap anyway.
 
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