Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

[jefferz]

Tech Jesus taking it to ASUS

There were a lot of promises made, but only time will tell.

At the beginning, I thought Steve was about to walk when they wouldn't admit they lied. You could tell he was starting to get mad.

 

[jefferz]

US Government Sanctions Deepcool Over Supplying to Blacklisted Russian Firms​

The US Department of the Treasury on Wednesday, sanctioned 16 Chinese tech companies involved in supporting the Russian wartime economy, or supplying goods to blacklisted Russian firms, as the war in Ukraine rages on. A surprising name on this list is Beijing Deepcool Industries, the company behind the popular PC cooling, casing, and power supply brand Deepcool. A US State Department release announcing the sanctions, described Deepcool as supplying $1 million worth common high-priority items list (CHPL) goods. These are items that could directly or indirectly support the Russian war-effort in Ukraine. "BEIJING DEEPCOOL INDUSTRIES CO LTD is a PRC-based company involved in the supply of over $1 million worth of CHPL items to Russian companies, including the U.S.-designated, Russia-based AKTSIONERNOE OBSHCHESTVO TASKOM and OOO NOVYI AI TI PROEKT," the State Department release says.

Meanwhile, the executive aspect of the sanctions are handled by the Treasury Department, which restricts all transactions by US firms to the 16 newly sanctioned Chinese companies, which include Deepcool. What this means is that the US-end of Deepcool must immediately cease operations, as it cannot transact any business with its parent company in China. Sale of Deepcool product will also stop, as US residents cannot conduct any business with the company. This could also mean that the US-based subsidiary of Deepcool may not be in a position to provide aftersales support to existing customers in the country.

 

[avenue94]

I only watched the intro, but LOL at him backhanding the Director of Marketing, "Can we get someone higher up? No offense..."

Translation: I run a tech channel. I have zero interest in talking to a sales bro. Spin alley is down that hall. Go get someone who matters.

Since I'm lazy, do you remember the name for director of marketing? Because there's a good chance they're effectively a PM and a director of technical marketing is quite senior at Asus.

 

[Madmick]

Since I'm lazy, do you remember the name for director of marketing? Because there's a good chance they're effectively a PM and a director of technical marketing is quite senior at Asus.

 

[avenue94]

Why the sass? Was a genuine question to see who it was and if I've crossed paths with them professionally.

 

[jefferz]

@jefferz

Guy proclaims a ~6C drop

Did you see that Lian Li Lancool 207 at Computex?

 

[jefferz]

TLDW: For things like Hades 2, Cuphead, etc it's fine. But for stuff like Borderlands 3 and Fallout 4, it needs more polish. Cyperpunk 720p low was sub 30fps.

I think it's in the same space as Intel Arc is right now, let them cook. It'll take time, but they'll get there.

 

[Snubnoze707]

I'm due to build a new PC. This one is still solid but can't handle newer games like Tekken 8. I built this one for the Tekken 7 release so it's pretty old.

What's the best price/performance processor and graphics card out there these days that I should build around?

 

[Madmick]

I'm due to build a new PC. This one is still solid but can't handle newer games like Tekken 8. I built this one for the Tekken 7 release so it's pretty old.

What's the best price/performance processor and graphics card out there these days that I should build around?

The 5700X3D for $199 Jeff just mentioned in the other thread is a crazy price : performance value, and that value curve holds even if you are using the cost of the whole PC (not just the CPU) for assessment. According to DSO Gaming, at least for Tekken, it's CPU performance you're after, it's not a GPU intensive game. Although I'd assume there may be other games you want to play that are more demanding on the GPU:

TEKKEN 8 Benchmarks & PC Performance Analysis

Powered by Unreal Engine 5, it's time now to benchmark TEKKEN 8 and examine its performance on the PC platform.

www.dsogaming.com

The only significant drawback of this last-generation CPU is that this limits you to the older X570/B550 motherboard chipset. The enduring support of AMD is legendary, so buying into a new chipset generation of motherboards (X670/B650) in their first generation infancy usually is a very good investment if you're someone who is comfortable installing future upgrades yourself component by component. But their latest Zen 4 CPUs that are paired with those new motherboards come at a stiff premium atm.

For the GPU, you can look at both previous generations (RX 6xxx if AMD or RTX 3xxx if NVIDIA). Still valid performance. Whether you go with a GPU from that previous gen, or the newest gen (RX 7xxx if AMD or RTX 4xxx if NVIDIA), here is Techpowerup's latest value analysis in their most recent GPU review:

XFX Radeon RX 7900 XTX Magnetic Air Review

The XFX Radeon RX 7900 XTX Magnetic Air comes with user-replaceable fans that pop out without any tools. It's a fantastic solution to clean your card and to simplify RMAs. The card achieved excellent performance results in our review, and the overclocking potential is highly impressive.

www.techpowerup.com

This calculates raw value if the cost of the GPU is considered discretely. As with the CPU, the value shifts in favor of the more expensive units as the cost of the whole PC increases. But as you can see, the ideal range is $275-$550 before the value starts to drop off. Once you get above the $750 entry point for an AMD RX 7900 XT this drops off a cliff.

 

[Snubnoze707]

The 5700X3D for $199 Jeff just mentioned in the other thread is a crazy price : performance value, and that value curve holds even if you are using the cost of the whole PC (not just the CPU) for assessment. According to DSO Gaming, at least for Tekken, it's CPU performance you're after, it's not a GPU intensive game. Although I'd assume there may be other games you want to play that are more demanding on the GPU:

TEKKEN 8 Benchmarks & PC Performance Analysis

Powered by Unreal Engine 5, it's time now to benchmark TEKKEN 8 and examine its performance on the PC platform.

www.dsogaming.com

The only significant drawback of this last-generation CPU is that this limits you to the older X570/B550 motherboard chipset. The enduring support of AMD is legendary, so buying into a new chipset generation (X670/B650) in its first generation infancy usually is a very good investment if you're someone who is comfortable installing future upgrades yourself component by component. But their latest Zen 4 CPUs come at a stiff premium atm.

For the GPU, you can look at both previous generations (RX 6xxx if AMD or RTX 3xxx if NVIDIA). Still valid performance. Whether you go with a GPU from that previous gen, or the newest gen (RX 7xxx if AMD or RTX 4xxx if NVIDIA), here is Techpowerup's latest value analysis in their most recent GPU review:

XFX Radeon RX 7900 XTX Magnetic Air Review

The XFX Radeon RX 7900 XTX Magnetic Air comes with user-replaceable fans that pop out without any tools. It's a fantastic solution to clean your card and to simplify RMAs. The card achieved excellent performance results in our review, and the overclocking potential is highly impressive.

www.techpowerup.com

This calculates raw value if the cost of the GPU is considered discretely. As with the CPU, the value shifts in favor of the more expensive units as the cost of the whole PC increases. But as you can see, the ideal range is $275-$550 before the value starts to drop off. Once you get above the $750 entry point for an AMD RX 7900 XT this drops off a cliff.

Right on, thanks. I'll dig in a bit more. The likelihood is that I'll build this and run it indefinitely, like the one I'm on right now. I had aspirations to overclock and upgrade but never did any of that. This old one will be my bedroom PC, while the new one will be out in the living room hooked up to my big 4K TV.

My nephew is wanting a new PC as well so I'll try and make it a team build project with him.

 

[KaNesDeath]

Did you see that Lian Li Lancool 207 at Computex?

I have now, lol. Cant really knock a mid-tower budget case like this that hard. Ive always been a Full Tower person.

 

[avenue94]

TLDW: For things like Hades 2, Cuphead, etc it's fine. But for stuff like Borderlands 3 and Fallout 4, it needs more polish. Cyperpunk 720p low was sub 30fps.

I think it's in the same space as Intel Arc is right now, let them cook. It'll take time, but they'll get there.

Honestly not sure how much polishing they're going to invest in for this first generation. Gaming wasn't even on their roadmap for the first year (as in dGPU pairings), and that would be a more important first step since I can buy a RTX 4060 notebook for less than the cheapest Snapdragon Plus option on the market today.

I'm more curious on how they're going to enter the desktop market since neither of their two choices are great currently.

There's also the elephant in the room of Microsoft would rather put their marketing dollars behind Gamepass then anything else for Qualcomm's stuff.

 

[jefferz]

Honestly not sure how much polishing they're going to invest in for this first generation. Gaming wasn't even on their roadmap for the first year (as in dGPU pairings), and that would be a more important first step since I can buy a RTX 4060 notebook for less than the cheapest Snapdragon Plus option on the market today.

I'm more curious on how they're going to enter the desktop market since neither of their two choices are great currently.

There's also the elephant in the room of Microsoft would rather put their marketing dollars behind Gamepass then anything else for Qualcomm's stuff.

Yeah, why would Microsoft want to work on bringing their products to an untapped market.
Sounds silly.

 

[jefferz]

TLDW: For things like Hades 2, Cuphead, etc it's fine. But for stuff like Borderlands 3 and Fallout 4, it needs more polish. Cyperpunk 720p low was sub 30fps.

I think it's in the same space as Intel Arc is right now, let them cook. It'll take time, but they'll get there.

Dawid found an odd thing on GTA5. When frame pacing starts to fall, you just need to touch the touchscreen, and it fixes itself.

 

[avenue94]

Yeah, why would Microsoft want to work on bringing their products to an untapped market.
Sounds silly.

I'm speaking to Qualcomm and Snapdragon X (their roadmap literally doesn't have gaming on it anytime soon). But if you're asking why Microsoft doesn't want to push into gaming, here's an essay on why it doesn't make financial sense.

• $999 is the entry-level option for 14-inch Surface
• Microsoft would need to pay more on the carcass: brand new chassis, bigger battery than they've already sourced, new cooling solution.
• Processor options would be Core Ultra or Ryzen AI, both of which cost about twice as Snapdragon X Elite for an OEM. Qualcomm will do a run of base Snapdragon X eventually, but that's a ways out still and performance is a question mark.
• On top of the cost of an Nvidia GPU (shit is not cheap these days for OEMs), Microsoft would need to find new display panels that, while a bit cheaper, would bring start up costs.
• Small cost, but Microsoft would have to use 512 instead of 256 for SSDs

And when this is all said and done, you'd probably have a 14" Surface gaming laptop with an RTX 4050 that costs around $1,300 to $1,500 because of added costs and not being able to undercut the base Surface Laptop. And at that point the HP Transcend ($1,699 for an RTX 4060) and Asus G14 ($1,599 with a price floor of $1,299 once or twice a month) shit on your laptop that is unable to beat budget options for value or beat better specced comparably priced options.

TLDR: Microsoft knows its better served by just sitting back and collecting OS fees and Game Pass money instead of trying to break into as cutthroat a market as gaming.

Plus Best Buy and Microsoft are very happy with pre-orders for Surface laptops this time around, they vastly exceeded expectations and scaled organically very well. Gaming would just be a headache compared to focusing on premium consumer for now.

P.S. This isn't even touching on the complexity of finding a retail chain that would sell your product.

 

[jefferz]

I'm speaking to Qualcomm and Snapdragon X (their roadmap literally doesn't have gaming on it anytime soon). But if you're asking why Microsoft doesn't want to push into gaming, here's an essay on why it doesn't make financial sense.

• $999 is the entry-level option for 14-inch Surface
• Microsoft would need to pay more on the carcass: brand new chassis, bigger battery than they've already sourced, new cooling solution.
• Processor options would be Core Ultra or Ryzen AI, both of which cost about twice as Snapdragon X Elite for an OEM. Qualcomm will do a run of base Snapdragon X eventually, but that's a ways out still and performance is a question mark.
• On top of the cost of an Nvidia GPU (shit is not cheap these days for OEMs), Microsoft would need to find new display panels that, while a bit cheaper, would bring start up costs.
• Small cost, but Microsoft would have to use 512 instead of 256 for SSDs

And when this is all said and done, you'd probably have a 14" Surface gaming laptop with an RTX 4050 that costs around $1,300 to $1,500 because of added costs and not being able to undercut the base Surface Laptop. And at that point the HP Transcend ($1,699 for an RTX 4060) and Asus G14 ($1,599 with a price floor of $1,299 once or twice a month) shit on your laptop that is unable to beat budget options for value or beat better specced comparably priced options.

TLDR: Microsoft knows its better served by just sitting back and collecting OS fees and Game Pass money instead of trying to break into as cutthroat a market as gaming.

Plus Best Buy and Microsoft are very happy with pre-orders for Surface laptops this time around, they vastly exceeded expectations and scaled organically very well. Gaming would just be a headache compared to focusing on premium consumer for now.

P.S. This isn't even touching on the complexity of finding a retail chain that would sell your product.

Here's a quick response on why Microsoft wants to push into gaming on ARM based cpu's.
Phones.


A vast majority of phones are ARM based, and it's a huge untapped market.
I don't know if you've been paying attention, but AAA games, like Assassin's Creed Shadows and Resident Evil Village, are coming out for iPhones.

 

[avenue94]

Here's a quick response on why Microsoft wants to push into gaming on ARM based cpu's.
Phones.

Microsoft already tried phones and got their shit pushed in. They aren't going back into that market, when it's even less competitive. Google is barely hanging on in the smartphone market and they have an even bigger edge than Microsoft would have there.

A vast majority of phones are ARM based, and it's a huge untapped market.
I don't know if you've been paying attention, but AAA games, like Assassin's Creed Shadows and Resident Evil Village, are coming out for iPhones.

Why spend all the money on emulation layers, getting devs on board, launching new hardware., when you have Game Pass? You're argument is silly. Microsoft will go mobile on the console side, but they aren't interested in native AAA gaming on smartphones.

I don't expect a person who clearly does not work in the PC or consumer electronics industry to know every nuance or see the roadmaps you get to see when you work with OEMs, but your argument is ludicrously unrealistic. It wouldn't even get a passing grade in a basic business planning class.

P.S. Asus' gaming phone attempts, while cool, are a best case scenario for what Microsoft going into smartphone gaming would look like.

 

[jefferz]

Microsoft already tried phones and got their shit pushed in. They aren't going back into that market, when it's even less competitive. Google is barely hanging on in the smartphone market and they have an even bigger edge than Microsoft would have there.

Why spend all the money on emulation layers, getting devs on board, launching new hardware., when you have Game Pass? You're argument is silly. Microsoft will go mobile on the console side, but they aren't interested in native AAA gaming on smartphones.

I don't expect a person who clearly does not work in the PC or consumer electronics industry to know every nuance or see the roadmaps you get to see when you work with OEMs, but your argument is ludicrously unrealistic. It wouldn't even get a passing grade in a basic business planning class.

P.S. Asus' gaming phone attempts, while cool, are a best case scenario for what Microsoft going into smartphone gaming would look like.

Get a load of this pompous ass.

 

[Slobodan]

@Madmick @jefferz thoughts on this case?

H7 Flow

Mid-Tower ATX Airflow Case

nzxt.com

I'm not seeing any downsides, it has really good airflow and good aesthetics. Can fit a 360mm rad on the top compared to my Fractal Pop Air. I'm really liking the airlfow for the GPU.

 

[avenue94]

Get a load of this pompous ass.

Harsh probably, pompous, not really. Microsoft going back into the smartphone market with their killer edge being native AAA gaming is a terrible take you don't need industry knowledge to pick apart.

There's no more market share to create for premium phones, you can only take from Apple and Samsung at this point.