Gable Steveson and Brock would beat Ngannou

[CorninginChristianburg]

So a couple points. AJ Ferrari and Anthony Cassar actually discussed it on the Justin Baasch podcast.

Starts at 1:04:55

Could a wrestler take down Francis? Oh yeah, absolutely. Easily. Is Gable specifically the one? I don't know, and the only reason I don't know is because he's not really known for shooting. Probably, just because he's very quick. But in wrestling he's much more known for his snapdowns, his reattacks, his work from the collar tie. Those are the parts of wrestling that I think translate the worst to MMA, because very rarely in MMA do you find yourself with a collar tie in the standup on your opponent. So while Gable could probably do it just by being athletic, I don't know if he's the best candidate to do it. Gable scores most often when you shoot on him.

Why did Stipe succeed at 35 and not at 38? Frankly because he's too old now to wrestle. Wrestling is a young-man's game, go look in the Olympics, how many winners or even medalists are over say, 32. Yes there's an outlier here and there like Mijain Lopez, but in reality, most wrestlers like Jordan Burroughs, by the time they get north of 30 they're in decline. And Stipe at his best was only an average D1 wrestler, not some elite wrestler. I picked Stipe in the first fight, I picked Francis in the second, not because I thought his TDD had become unstoppable but because I knew what I saw from Stipe in the DC fights, he no longer had the quickness, the explosiveness, or the power that he had at a younger age. His body was wasted, his body is wasted, as a massive Stipe fan I've been begging for him to retire ever since after the second DC fight, go out on a high note. But he stayed too long. He lost to Francis, if he fights Jones he'll lose to Jones. 42 year old DC he can beat. DC with no knees left and with a shot back, he can beat him. He can't beat a fighter much closer to their prime.

Francis stuffed some takedowns from a shot Stipe, both doesn't surprise me and also doesn't really speak to his wrestling. You put Francis there against a good wrestler, he will go down and he will stay down. And I mean no disrespect to Francis either, who I also love. But everything has levels. Striking has levels, BJJ has levels, wrestling has levels, the level of a 38 year old former average D1 wrestler who's gone through a lot of wear and tear is nothing near the pinnacle of the sport.

 

[blaseblah]

Cain, old and after injuryes and a div2 level wrestler...

Brock is in his 40s

 

[spinup]

So a couple points. AJ Ferrari and Anthony Cassar actually discussed it on the Justin Baasch podcast.

Starts at 1:04:55

Could a wrestler take down Francis? Oh yeah, absolutely. Easily. Is Gable specifically the one? I don't know, and the only reason I don't know is because he's not really known for shooting. Probably, just because he's very quick. But in wrestling he's much more known for his snapdowns, his reattacks, his work from the collar tie. Those are the parts of wrestling that I think translate the worst to MMA, because very rarely in MMA do you find yourself with a collar tie in the standup on your opponent. So while Gable could probably do it just by being athletic, I don't know if he's the best candidate to do it. Gable scores most often when you shoot on him.

Why did Stipe succeed at 35 and not at 38? Frankly because he's too old now to wrestle. Wrestling is a young-man's game, go look in the Olympics, how many winners or even medalists are over say, 32. Yes there's an outlier here and there like Mijain Lopez, but in reality, most wrestlers like Jordan Burroughs, by the time they get north of 30 they're in decline. And Stipe at his best was only an average D1 wrestler, not some elite wrestler. I picked Stipe in the first fight, I picked Francis in the second, not because I thought his TDD had become unstoppable but because I knew what I saw from Stipe in the DC fights, he no longer had the quickness, the explosiveness, or the power that he had at a younger age. His body was wasted, his body is wasted, as a massive Stipe fan I've been begging for him to retire ever since after the second DC fight, go out on a high note. But he stayed too long. He lost to Francis, if he fights Jones he'll lose to Jones. 42 year old DC he can beat. DC with no knees left and with a shot back, he can beat him. He can't beat a fighter much closer to their prime.

Francis stuffed some takedowns from a shot Stipe, both doesn't surprise me and also doesn't really speak to his wrestling. You put Francis there against a good wrestler, he will go down and he will stay down. And I mean no disrespect to Francis either, who I also love. But everything has levels. Striking has levels, BJJ has levels, wrestling has levels, the level of a 38 year old former average D1 wrestler who's gone through a lot of wear and tear is nothing near the pinnacle of the sport.

This is MMA, not wrestling. You talk like a wrestler can just step in the octagon and do his everyday job without worrying about anything else. Even submission.

One of Ngannou's former training partner was an Tunisian olympic HW wrestler. France national champ. Solid level.
His first MMA fight he got submitted by a nobody, he didn't have the awareness.

 

[Substance Abuse]

This is MMA, not wrestling. You talk like a wrestler can just step in the octagon and do his everyday job without worrying about anything else. Even submission.

One of Ngannou's former training partner was an Tunisian olympic HW wrestler. France national champ. Solid level.
His first MMA fight he got submitted by a nobody, he didn't have the awareness.

Bingo.

 

[Thick_Strong_Tight]

Hunt probably has better TDD than Ngannou if we're being honest.

The truth is, Brock would be difficult in his prime for Ngannou, potentially. If he fought very defensively as he did with Hunt, he may be able to basically avoid the standup altogether. Obviously Ngannou would look to make it a standup fight, but it's possible he could be evasive enough to make it more grappling oriented which would favor him. I'd say if Brock got on top, that would probably be the end of Ngannou's night given how he treated Mir in the second fight.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

This is MMA, not wrestling. You talk like a wrestler can just step in the octagon and do his everyday job without worrying about anything else. Even submission.

One of Ngannou's former training partner was an Tunisian olympic HW wrestler. France national champ. Solid level.
His first MMA fight he got submitted by a nobody, he didn't have the awareness.

Yeah because for the most part they can. That specific phrase I've heard dozens of times in fighter interviews "this is an MMA match not a wrestling match", every time without fail afterwards the fighter who says that has gotten wrestled and lost. Do exceptions exist? Of course exceptions exist. I don't really worry myself with the exceptions I worry myself with the common trends.

And yeah, a lot of wrestlers get caught by subs in their early fights because they're just learning jiu jitsu and don't know everything. That's normal and not alarming, your early career losses tend not to matter anyways. I don't know why you say it like it's some devastating point. In his second fight Kamaru Usman got subbed. Now he's a 4 time defending champ. Slim Trabelsi could become the UFC champ someday, you don't know how his whole career will go from one early ammy fight. The guy he just beat, Ryan Spillane, was a top MMA prospect. He could be great he could be ok, I don't know, I'm not as invested in his career, but if he's got the chops he could be very good regardless of what happened that day.

A side note on Slim Trabelsi, I've not been able to find any record of him competing in the Olympics, so I'm unsure if he competed in like junior Olympics or something. Which isn't to detract from him as a prospect, I think he's exciting too I just haven't been able to verify that portion of his bio.

 

[mr nuff]

Brock is probably the greatest HW ever before diverticulitis took hold of him

 

[Bruce Lee666]

This is MMA, not wrestling. You talk like a wrestler can just step in the octagon and do his everyday job without worrying about anything else. Even submission.

One of Ngannou's former training partner was an Tunisian olympic HW wrestler. France national champ. Solid level.
His first MMA fight he got submitted by a nobody, he didn't have the awareness.

a wrestler entering in mma without knowledge of jiu jitsu is suicide, you have to learn striking too.

 

[Bruce Lee666]

Yeah because for the most part they can. That specific phrase I've heard dozens of times in fighter interviews "this is an MMA match not a wrestling match", every time without fail afterwards the fighter who says that has gotten wrestled and lost. Do exceptions exist? Of course exceptions exist. I don't really worry myself with the exceptions I worry myself with the common trends.

And yeah, a lot of wrestlers get caught by subs in their early fights because they're just learning jiu jitsu and don't know everything. That's normal and not alarming, your early career losses tend not to matter anyways. I don't know why you say it like it's some devastating point. In his second fight Kamaru Usman got subbed. Now he's a 4 time defending champ. Slim Trabelsi could become the UFC champ someday, you don't know how his whole career will go from one early ammy fight. The guy he just beat, Ryan Spillane, was a top MMA prospect. He could be great he could be ok, I don't know, I'm not as invested in his career, but if he's got the chops he could be very good regardless of what happened that day.

A side note on Slim Trabelsi, I've not been able to find any record of him competing in the Olympics, so I'm unsure if he competed in like junior Olympics or something. Which isn't to detract from him as a prospect, I think he's exciting too I just haven't been able to verify that portion of his bio.

Curtis is a state Champion 44-0 in Wrestling,won the NJCAA National Championship and was massacred by Francis.

it's not so easy to defeat this monster called Ngannou!!

 

[spinup]

And yeah, a lot of wrestlers get caught by subs in their early fights because they're just learning jiu jitsu and don't know everything. That's normal and not alarming, your early career losses tend not to matter anyways. I don't know why you say it like it's some devastating point. In his second fight Kamaru Usman got subbed. Now he's a 4 time defending champ. Slim Trabelsi could become the UFC champ someday, you don't know how his whole career will go from one early ammy fight.

That's my point: a wrestler can't just walk in an octagon and be a top MMA fighter without learning MMA.

A side note on Slim Trabelsi, I've not been able to find any record of him competing in the Olympics, so I'm unsure if he competed in like junior Olympics or something. Which isn't to detract from him as a prospect, I think he's exciting too I just haven't been able to verify that portion of his bio.

Yes actually there is a weird story. He was qualified to compete in Rio 2016 but withdrew and left Tunisia in a sort of conflict with the tunisian wrestling federation.
But he won the national championship in France in 2019, and got 2nd in the African championship in 2016.

 

[spinup]

Curtis is a state Champion 44-0 in Wrestling,won the NJCAA National Championship and was massacred by Francis.

it's not so easy to defeat this monster called Ngannou!!

People don't remember the first Ngannou-Blaydes fight, it's one of the most significant in his career.
Ngannou easily won both rounds before the doctor stoppage, stopping most TDs and getting back to his feet immediately the 2 times he got taken down.
He always had wrestling and grappling skills, it's not what failed him vs Stipe.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Gable Stevenson is still in college, he trains freestyle on the side in the summer. He has yet to give up a point in the Olympics and will wrestle for gold tomorrow. Imagine training your entire life in freestyle, you're entire bloodline wrestled freestyle and you get merked 8-0 by a part time freestyle wrestler, sheesh. This guy he smoked in the semis was one who many considered p4p #2 behind saduleav.

Gable would smash Derrick Lewis or Ngannou tomorrow with ease.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

Curtis is a state Champion 44-0 in Wrestling,won the NJCAA National Championship and was massacred by Francis.

it's not so easy to defeat this monster called Ngannou!!

Yeah, Curtis is not a bad wrestler at wrestling. But he's not the only wrestler and obviously there are differences between wrestlers and also differences between levels of wrestling. And wrestlers have strengths and weaknesses and Blaydes has certain weaknesses.

If you've ever watched Curtis Blaydes you'll know that what he struggles with more than anything is pressure. He got 14 takedowns against Volkov, 5 against Shamil, 7 against Willis, 10 against Mark Hunt, 8 against Milstead. That's not good. It's not a good thing to get that many takedowns because that means you're not keeping your opponent on the ground. Another fighter who is like that is Merab Dvalishvili, great takedowns, no top pressure. Their second fight ended before much could happen, he got 2 takedowns on Francis in the first fight, but he did nothing to keep Francis down, and Francis popped back up and beat him. Blaydes has always had very poor top pressure, in that respect Ngannou is not unique. The difference between Ngannou and Blaydes' other opponents is that when Ngannou got up, he knocked out Blaydes, who is himself a good striker. Other opponents have gotten up but been unable to outstrike Blaydes. The difference in the Stipe fight, Stipe only got 6 takedowns in 25 minutes, but when he did he was able to keep Francis on the ground for a couple minutes at a time with proper hooks and riding him from the seatbelt style posture.

That's my point: a wrestler can't just walk in an octagon and be a top MMA fighter without learning MMA.

Yes actually there is a weird story. He was qualified to compete in Rio 2016 but withdrew and left Tunisia in a sort of conflict with the tunisian wrestling federation.
But he won the national championship in France in 2019, and got 2nd in the African championship in 2016.

I see, I really did not care to read the pages and pages of discussion I just wanted to drop the video and 2 cents on what would happen if Gable did transition to MMA and how that might matchup with Ngannou. Maybe someone argued a couple pages back that he could beat Ngannou without any MMA training, I did not read that and never card to defend that position, my commentary was always going to be more thorough than that...

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Just a Jacked American Wrestler... Deal with it.

 

[VinceArch]

You also thought a good wrestler was going to beat Khabib

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Just a Jacked American Wrestler... Deal with it.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

You also thought a good wrestler was going to beat Khabib

He was one to two leg kicks away

 

[VinceArch]

He was one to two leg kicks away

And then he lost anyway. To say a great wrestler would take out Ngannou or Lewis with ease needs to be taken with a grain of salt. In your case a shot of penicillin.

 

[Reign009]

The guy is a beast.

 

[Drugstore Cowboy]

Tbh Gable Steveson actually IS one of the biggest monsters of all time in wrestling already. So, not a bad shoutout besides obvious trolling.

Minnesota is underrated at wrestling also. It's American version of North Ossetia. Very good school there.