Fun Project - All-Time Heavy Weight Championship

I agree with all of what you say TKD about Dempsey not being in his prime and having a layoff before he fought Tunney the first time. However, prime or not that was as one sided a fight as you can find. It's not as if Dempsey came even close in that fight. The second fight he was in better shape and more determined but the results were pretty much the same. Besides that knockdown he got dominated round after round. Now I agree the long count was bs and the quick count did look fishy. However, I really don't think you beileve Tunney couldn't have gotten up either way as he was clearly looking at the ref watching the count not rolling around trying to find his mouthpiece. Further more that knockdown was all dempsey did that fight and imo the only chance he'd ever have which was to "catch" Tunney and imo those two fights proved Tunney had the style to beat dempsey and more often then not the "catching" wouldn't happen imo.
 
KORUPT xLOxx said:
I agree with all of what you say TKD about Dempsey not being in his prime and having a layoff before he fought Tunney the first time. However, prime or not that was as one sided a fight as you can find. It's not as if Dempsey came even close in that fight. The second fight he was in better shape and more determined but the results were pretty much the same. Besides that knockdown he got dominated round after round. Now I agree the long count was bs and the quick count did look fishy. However, I really don't think you beileve Tunney couldn't have gotten up either way as he was clearly looking at the ref watching the count not rolling around trying to find his mouthpiece. Further more that knockdown was all dempsey did that fight and imo the only chance he'd ever have which was to "catch" Tunney and imo those two fights proved Tunney had the style to beat dempsey and more often then not the "catching" wouldn't happen imo.
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Well, we dont have to come to an agreement. :icon_chee

The first fight was a blow out, and if Dempsey himself wasnt making excuses (which he wasnt), then we shouldnt either. The second fight should have went to Dempsey. Tunney was on the canvas for 18 seconds, and then a flash knockdown later in the fight, the rules for when to start counting got completely ignored. With all the rumors of mob ties and heavy betting between Capone vs. the jewish mafia on that fight, somebody got paid. In my completely talking-out-of-my-ass opinion...
 
amhlilhaus said:
how did patterson get in there? ezzard charles deserves to be there more than him.
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Charles is probably the most underrated heavyweight (if you could call him that) of all time. His style looked more like a modern fighter than those that he immediately followed after (like Louis)...
 
StillinKansas said:
Charles is probably the most underrated heavyweight (if you could call him that) of all time. His style looked more like a modern fighter than those that he immediately followed after (like Louis)...
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That's a pretty lame example. Louis' hands were as educated as any I've seen @ HW.

Charles is the greatest L.HW who ever lived, no doubt.

As for the "Long count" arguement. We all know it doesn't matter. There have been "long counts" since boxing's existance. Perhaps this example has gone down in infamy, but if the ref says "9" and you getup, that's all there is too it.

When Don King and Jose Suliman tried to rob Buster Douglas for the referee's "long count", it was an abomination. People didn't want to believe that Tyson was no longer "the baddest man on the planet". Same thing when Dempsey lost, people refused to accept Tunney as the champ.
 
True. It happens. But damn, 18 seconds is a loooonnnnng count.
 
GlassJaw said:
That's a pretty lame example. Louis' hands were as educated as any I've seen @ HW.

Charles is the greatest L.HW who ever lived, no doubt.
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I don't know what you mean by example?

-Charles beat Louis for the title.
-He wasn't ever the LHW champ.
-His handspeed and footwork (esp!) were better than Louis.
 
Commonsense said:
A little trip down memory lane might help you see why I said what I did. Now tell me would it matter who was standing in front of the relentless onslaught and flurry of punches that Tyson threw at everyone?

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/tyson/video/x1lqf2_mike-tyson-highlight_sport
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Tyson was a beast. Does he knock out everyone on that list? Not by a long shot. There's some guys on there that I think he beats, but the bigger heavyweights beat him, Holyfield will obviously beat him, ali beats him...it would be fun to watch him fight frazier...prime holmes beats him.
 
Back to the Tyson argument, here's how I see it playing out for him against everyone:

vs: Louis - Louis by prolonged bludgeoning
vs: Ali - Ali decision or late tko
vs: Holmes - holmes decision
vs. foreman - foreman by mugging
vs:Johnson - *shrugs*
vs:Marciano - Tyson
vs: frazier - toss-up. I like Frazier, but this would be a fun match up
vs: jeffries - havent seen enough of jeffries
vs: holyfield - we know how this played out
vs: dempsey - tyson
vs: tunney - tyson
vs: lewis - lewis
vs: liston - liston
vs: patterson - patterson
vs: charles - charles
 
StillinKansas said:
I don't know what you mean by example?

-Charles beat Louis for the title.
-He wasn't ever the LHW champ.
-His handspeed and footwork (esp!) were better than Louis.
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Charles beat an ancient Louis who was the very end of his amazing career.

Charles fought around 175 -185 bs for the majority of his career.

Louis was a much better technician than you're giving him credit for.
 
Louis would do well with anyone that is a plodder.
Louis beats foreman.

I like glassjaw's bracket.
Ali the winner.
 
vs: Louis - Louis by prolonged bludgeoning
vs: Ali - Ali decision or late tko
vs: Holmes - holmes decision
vs. foreman - foreman by mugging
vs:Johnson - *shrugs*
vs:Marciano - Tyson
vs: frazier - toss-up. I like Frazier, but this would be a fun match up
vs: jeffries - havent seen enough of jeffries
vs: holyfield - we know how this played out
vs: dempsey - tyson
vs: tunney - tyson
vs: lewis - lewis
vs: liston - liston
vs: patterson - patterson
vs: charles - charles

Damn, that's some lack of love for PRIME Tyson.
Tyson KO Louis. And I am a big fan of Louis. Tyson KO7. Similar punching power but young and in shape Tyson had a hell of a chin, not so with Joe.
Ali could beat Tyson if he doesn't get Coopered. 50/50 Tyson KO, Ali UD.
Tyson KO Holmes again. Just later 8.
I can't see Foreman catching Tyson clean enough during a fight to keep from being caught by Mike. too wide open for being countered. Tyson by Ron Lyle-esque beating. KO4.
Tyson KO Johnson 7.
Tyson KO Marciano 4. Bad matchup for Rocky.
Tyson KO2 Frazier. Prime Tyson better in every department.
Tyson KO4 Jeffries.
Prime Tyson I think would be able to sustain an attack over the course of 12 rounds and beat Holyfield by late TKO or Decision.
Tyson KO3 over his idol Demsey.
Tyson KO's Tunney mid fight.
Lewis to big and skilled if he is at his best and fights to a cautious UD with some anxious moments.
Liston is another one of the pickums for me. Lean slightly towards Tyson via later stoppage.
Tyson obliterates Patterson in one.
Tyson catches up with Ezzard in 6.
Now on to the tourney:
Louis over Charles
Holyfield over Jeffries
Marciano over Tunney
Liston over Foreman

Ali over Patterson
Dempsey over Frazier
Lewis over Johnson
Tyson over Holmes

Louis over Holy
Liston over Rocky
Ali over Demsey
Lewis over Tyson

Louis over Liston
Lewis over Ali

Lewis over Louis

:icon_chee
 
Tyson fought Holyfield AFTER a three year layoff in prison, a suicide attempt prior, and "marriage" to that gold-digger Robin Givens, an alliance with Don King, and getting rid of his original trainers, that kept him disciplined and sharp. Two weeks before the fight with Buster Douglass, he was in Japan seen in a limo with about a dozen Japanese whores. Of course THAT Mike Tyson lost to Holyfield, but the Tyson of 1985-90 would have destroyed himwithin 8.

And the idea that he couldn't handle bigger heavyweights??? Pu-lease! He Ko'd WITH EASE many fighters larger than him, including some good ones. Its just that no matter the size or skill level of the fighter before him, the onslaught that Tyson brought was simply too much for ANYONE to deal with. Every fighter was always on the defensive. Tyson was never backed up--he was always moving forward, bringing the fists of fury. Joe Louis would have had NO DEFENSE againsta 25 yr old Tyson. He was TROUBLE for ANYONE on the list, I'm sorry. I am not caught up in nostalgia and the "glory days" prism that often blinds people from seeing what is OBVIOUS. In his day, Tyson would have wrecked everyone on that list. Sooner or later they would have gotten caught.

Watch the HL video I posted--Tyson knocked people out, and half way across the ring with HALF-PUNCHES, or with just the leverage of his forearm!
 
Sad.....Riddick Bowe has not been mentioned once (unless I missed it) during this thread.....and he could've beaten at least a third of the fighters listed in this hypothetical tournament.......He raped his legacy with those two fights with Golotta..... But I see him beating Jeffries, Walcott, Lennox Lewis and a host of others.....
 
YUP. Tyson was a wrecking machine, and MAYBE Ali could have danced for 15 rounds with him, but he would have lost a UD.
 
TKDhasBin said:
Sad.....Riddick Bowe has not been mentioned once (unless I missed it) during this thread.....and he could've beaten at least a third of the fighters listed in this hypothetical tournament.......He raped his legacy with those two fights with Golotta..... But I see him beating Jeffries, Walcott, Lennox Lewis and a host of others.....
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Bowe isnt listed because the list was based on the top 16 guys from the FAQ top heavyweights of all time. It was used to keep me from including my own personal bias.

As far as Tyson goes, I disagree with all youse guys, but thats part of the fun of the thread I suppose :icon_chee
 
ssx said:
vs: Louis - Louis by prolonged bludgeoning
vs: Ali - Ali decision or late tko
vs: Holmes - holmes decision
vs. foreman - foreman by mugging
vs:Johnson - *shrugs*
vs:Marciano - Tyson
vs: frazier - toss-up. I like Frazier, but this would be a fun match up
vs: jeffries - havent seen enough of jeffries
vs: holyfield - we know how this played out
vs: dempsey - tyson
vs: tunney - tyson
vs: lewis - lewis
vs: liston - liston
vs: patterson - patterson
vs: charles - charles

Damn, that's some lack of love for PRIME Tyson.
Tyson KO Louis. And I am a big fan of Louis. Tyson KO7. Similar punching power but young and in shape Tyson had a hell of a chin, not so with Joe.
Ali could beat Tyson if he doesn't get Coopered. 50/50 Tyson KO, Ali UD.
Tyson KO Holmes again. Just later 8.
I can't see Foreman catching Tyson clean enough during a fight to keep from being caught by Mike. too wide open for being countered. Tyson by Ron Lyle-esque beating. KO4.
Tyson KO Johnson 7.
Tyson KO Marciano 4. Bad matchup for Rocky.
Tyson KO2 Frazier. Prime Tyson better in every department.
Tyson KO4 Jeffries.
Prime Tyson I think would be able to sustain an attack over the course of 12 rounds and beat Holyfield by late TKO or Decision.
Tyson KO3 over his idol Demsey.
Tyson KO's Tunney mid fight.
Lewis to big and skilled if he is at his best and fights to a cautious UD with some anxious moments.
Liston is another one of the pickums for me. Lean slightly towards Tyson via later stoppage.
Tyson obliterates Patterson in one.
Tyson catches up with Ezzard in 6.
Now on to the tourney:
Louis over Charles
Holyfield over Jeffries
Marciano over Tunney
Liston over Foreman

Ali over Patterson
Dempsey over Frazier
Lewis over Johnson
Tyson over Holmes

Louis over Holy
Liston over Rocky
Ali over Demsey
Lewis over Tyson

Louis over Liston
Lewis over Ali

Lewis over Louis

:icon_chee
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You're trippin' man. I'd give him the nod against Patterson, but heck no if he'd KO Foreman.
 
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