For those that say Fedor was a can crusher :

dmwalking said:
So condescending. Written like a self absorbed 14 year old. Lol.

Rankings are funny. Context is everything. I mean, look at his record after his win over Yvel. Lol.
Click to expand...

It is history, and it is what it is, and those are the facts and evidences, and how things were seen at that time, and that is most important.

Fujita´s record after Yvel is perfectly fine considering he beat #2 Kerr, # 9 Yvel, legend Shamrock and solid Nijman. He had results, and this was score for Top 5 for any time including today.
Fujita had fine record overall untill he was 38 yrs old.

Who said that he had to be skilled, and what is someones´s personal definition of skill, he was skilled in wrestling with good chin and cardio, and had ko power, while some of today´s top fighters are only, if at all, skilled in brawl and nothing else, and some are only skilled in wrestling and nothing else.

It`s irrelevant what someone thinks of somebody´s skill 15 years later, if he was ranked highly, that means that he was seen as good fighter by MMA community, journalists and fans at the time when fights happened, and that is most important.
Those rankings are hardest authentic evidences and history lesson.
 
Fedor fought the best but he also had a lot of can fights since it was tournament mode or new year's spectacle. It is easy to pick apart someone's legacy retrospectively but I also dislike how some of Fedor's fans overplay his achievements. His biggest win for me is always going to be Cro Cop in 05. The following(not in order) Zulu, Choi, TK, Hunt, Lindland fights and Coleman 2 were squash matches.

After 2005, we started to see a shift in quality heavyweights moving outside of Pride or lack of new quality HWs. I think rankings in 06 were a bit weird. We had Wanderlei as a top ten HW.
 
DayV said:
It is history, and it is what it is, and those are the facts and evidences, and how things were seen at that time, and that is most important.

Fujita´s record after Yvel is perfectly fine considering he beat #2 Kerr, # 9 Yvel, legend Shamrock and solid Nijman. He had results, and this was score for Top 5 for any time including today.
Fujita had fine record overall untill he was 38 yrs old.

Who said that he had to be skilled, and what is someones´s personal definition of skill, he was skilled in wrestling with good chin and cardio, and had ko power, while some of today´s top fighters are only, if at all, skilled in brawl and nothing else, and some are only skilled in wrestling and nothing else.

It`s irrelevant what someone thinks of somebody´s skill 15 years later, if he was ranked highly, that means that he was seen as good fighter by MMA community, journalists and fans at the time when fights happened, and that is most important.
Those rankings are hardest authentic evidences and history lesson.
Click to expand...

He got that rank from fluke wins. That’s the context of those facts. There’s a reason he never beat a quality opponent after that. He was always a can. He just happened to get lucky twice against big names.
 
gono btw said:
hmmm...nah...

Kerr was still active after the 1st 90 sec (only ground control b4).: that´s when he basically started to inflict legit damage> multiple [wtf] knees to Fujita´s head.
When he akcnowledged that Fujita was still game, he clearly went down mentally (see his very next [weak] TD attempt).

The physical problem Kerr claimed he had was later during the fight.
Click to expand...

Ok that’s a technicality. He still gave up and became totally inactive for he majority of the fight.
 
He's one of the greats for sure, strong argument for the Greatest, but he's past his prime. Why is that so difficult for some to see this? It happened to Anderson Silva, It'll happen to GSP if he decides to fight again, and will happen to Jon Jones in time if he's ever allowed to fight again. No one can deny their accomplishments because Father Time defeats us all
 
People will always find some lame excuse to discredit the greats, whether they're Fedor, Anderson Silva, GSP, Jones, Aldo, etc.
 
The people that say that are dumbasses anyway. Pride had way more activity. You'd fight a top guy, and then because it's Japan you'd fight a comedian or a sumo wrestler or something.

What's better, fighting 2x a year and fighting 1 or two top guys. Or Fighting 4 to 5x a year and fighting top guys between cans?

What's that, they're exactly the same thing? Yeah no shit. Hasn't stopped this pointless debate for the last decade though
 
dmwalking said:
Ok that’s a technicality. He still gave up and became totally inactive for he majority of the fight.
Click to expand...
Gave up > mentally, when he acknowledged Fujita´s [unreal] toughness. Most fighters would have been KOed after the 1st 2 knees to the head. Fujita ate some 4.
 
NoSmilez said:
Fedor fought the best but he also had a lot of can fights since it was tournament mode or new year's spectacle. It is easy to pick apart someone's legacy retrospectively but I also dislike how some of Fedor's fans overplay his achievements. His biggest win for me is always going to be Cro Cop in 05. The following(not in order) Zulu, Choi, TK, Hunt, Lindland fights and Coleman 2 were squash matches.

After 2005, we started to see a shift in quality heavyweights moving outside of Pride or lack of new quality HWs. I think rankings in 06 were a bit weird. We had Wanderlei as a top ten HW.
Click to expand...
TK... a 'squash' match...
 
dmwalking said:
He got that rank from fluke wins. That’s the context of those facts. There’s a reason he never beat a quality opponent after that. He was always a can. He just happened to get lucky twice against big names.
Click to expand...
Fujita's peak rankings while he was Top 5 are in my previous post.

Fujita was not a can, eveidences are against it.
Here are original and authentic rankings of Fujita from 2000 - 2006.
He was often ranked in Top 10 in period of over 5 years, that means that he was seen by MMA media, fans, journalists and community as good fighter in those times, and he was a good win.


Stephen Quadros Top 10
Last Updated Monday 12-25-00

1. (tie) Mark Coleman
1. (tie) Igor Vovchanchyn
2. Randy Couture
3. (tie) Kevin Randleman
3. (tie) Pedro Rizzo
4. Kazuyuki Fujita (Japan) - Decision "win" over Gilbert Yvel. Stopped Ken Shamrock (Pride X). Shocked the world with a dominant victory over Kerr. Durable.
5. Heath Herring
6. Renato Babalu
7. Mark Kerr
8. Josh Barnett
9. Gilbert Yvel
10. Pete Williams
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Quadros Top 10
Last Updated Friday 6-1-01
HEAVYWEIGHT 205 lb and up (93 kg and up)

1. Mark Coleman
2. Igor Vovchanchyn
3. Rodrigo Nogueira
4. Randy Couture
5. Kazuyuki Fujita
6. Heath Herring
7. Pedro Rizzo
8. Semmy Schilt
9. Valetijn Overeem
10. Tra Telligman
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mixed Martial Arts Media Top 10
August, 2001

Heavyweights - 205 lbs. and up (93 kg and up)

1. Mark Coleman 150
2. Randy Couture 136
3. Pedro Rizzo 116
4. Igor Vovchanchyn 107
5. Heath Herring 100
6. Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira 94
7. Josh Barnett 53
8. Kazuyuki Fujita 52
9. Mark Kerr 20
10. Tra Telligman 19
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fightsport
January 2002

1. Minotauro Rodrigo Nogueira
2. Randy Couture
3. Heath Herring
4. Pedro Rizzo
5. Josh Barnett
6. Mark Coleman
7. Igor Vovchanchyn
8. Ricco Rodriguez
9. Mario Sperry
10. Kazuyuki Fujita

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MMA News
Last updated: May 4, 2003

Heavyweight (200 - 265 lbs.)
1. Emelianenko Fedor
2. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
3. Josh Barnett
4. Tim Sylvia
5. Heath Herring
6. Ricco Rodriguez
7. Wesley Correira
8. Gan McGee
9. Frank Mir
10. Kazuyuki Fujita
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MMA Fighting
July 2004

Heavyweight
1. Fedor Emelianenko- 288 points, 24 1st Place Votes
2. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira- 240 points
3. Josh Barnett- 178 points
4. Mirko Cro Cop- 123 points
5. Frank Mir- 109 points
6. Sergei Kharitonov- 104 points
7. Andrei Arlovski- 86 points
8. Tim Sylvia- 58 points
9. Kazuyuki Fujita- 44 points
10. Kevin Randleman- 37 points
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MMA Fighting
March 2005

Heavyweight
1. Fedor Emelianenko- 320 points, 25 1st Place Votes
2. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira- 254 points, 1 1st Place Vote
3. Mirko Cro Cop- 238 points, 1 1st Place Vote
4. Andrei Arlovski- 167 points
5. Sergei Kharitonov- 140 points
6. Frank Mir- 129 points
7. Josh Barnett- 84 points
8. Kazuyuki Fujita- 61 points
9. Heath Herring- 53 points
10. Aleksander Emelianenko- 34 points

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Fight Press - Fightsport
Friday, June 30, 2006

Heavyweight:
1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Rodrigo Minotauro Nogueira
3. Mark Hunt
4. Mirko Cro Cop Filipovic
5. Fabricio Werdum
6. Sergei Kharitonov
7. Kosh Barnett
8. Alexander Emelinaenko
9. Tim Sylvia
10. Kazuyuki Fujita
 
Stevanchez said:
People are just dumb. After Fedor became PRIDE champion he fought mostly top contenders. People just call them cans because they don't know them and are unwilling to educate themselves. Fedor's title reign competition was very similar to Anderson Silva's "greatest championship reign ever".

Fedor's Reign(7yrs 3mo):
Fights - 20 (19-0(1NC))
Title Fights - 8 (7-0(1NC))
Finishes - 16
NR Opponents - 4
Top 15 Opponents - 16(15 HW)
Top 10 Opponents - 12(11 HW)
Top 5 Opponents - 9(8 HW)

Silva's Reign(6yrs 9mo):
Fights - 15 (15-0)
Title Fights - 12 (12-0)
Finishes - 13
NR Opponents - 2
Top 15 Opponents - 13(12 MW)
Top 10 Opponents - 11(10 MW)
Top 5 Opponents - 7(6 MW)

If Fedor defended everytime he fought a top 15 HW like Silva, he would have had 12 title defenses. Silva also gets major props for beating NR and overmatched Irvin and Bonnar(who aren't actually bigger than him) because they're LHW, but Fedor beats overmatched guys who are 100+lbs bigger than him and they are cans. Then people call Lindland a can because he was a MW(#2 MW and top 10 P4P), but are okay with 2 of Jones title defenses being against MWs or GSP fighting BJ Penn. Again, people are just dumb.
Click to expand...

Where did you get 8 title defences? Fedor only defended against Hunt, Cro Cop, and Nog. The rest of his fights while champion were non title fights.
 
gono btw said:
TK... a 'squash' match...
Click to expand...
What was the betting line?
Was TK top ten in 2005?
Did he have any business fighting the number one in the world?
What opponents did TK beat after their first meeting in 2000?
What meaningful offense did TK offer Fedor in the rematch?
By definition it is a squash match. The only argument you have is that it wasn't quick enough.
 
100% he beat all the high level guys they threw at him but it's crazy to say he didn't fight alot of cans. So did Nog. So did Wanderlei. So did Cro Cop. So did just about every other high ranked fighter in Pride.

That's just how pride was.

Sometimes you'd get a fight between 2 elite guys and sometimes they'd feed the low level guys to the top guys for the sheer violent fun of it.

How many times did Pride fill the Saitama Super Arena by booking Wanderlei against some inexperienced Japanese Karate or Judo guy for him to beat the piss out of and look like an unstoppable monster?

I guess it comes from Takada and all the pro wrestling guys but either way it was good entertainment.
 
NoSmilez said:
What was the betting line?
Was TK top ten in 2005?
Did he have any business fighting the number one in the world?
What opponents did TK beat after their first meeting in 2000?
What meaningful offense did TK offer Fedor in the rematch?
By definition it is a squash match. The only argument you have is that it wasn't quick enough.
Click to expand...
I suggest ya watch TK´s fight against Ricardo Morais, some 17 months b4:



And if ya dont know about Morais, well... watch his fights too.
 
DayV said:
Fujita's peak rankings while he was Top 5 are in my previous post.

Fujita was not a can, eveidences are against it.
Here are original and authentic rankings of Fujita from 2000 - 2006.
He was often ranked in Top 10 in period of over 5 years, that means that he was seen by MMA media, fans, journalists and community as good fighter in those times, and he was a good win.


Stephen Quadros Top 10
Last Updated Monday 12-25-00

1. (tie) Mark Coleman
1. (tie) Igor Vovchanchyn
2. Randy Couture
3. (tie) Kevin Randleman
3. (tie) Pedro Rizzo
4. Kazuyuki Fujita (Japan) - Decision "win" over Gilbert Yvel. Stopped Ken Shamrock (Pride X). Shocked the world with a dominant victory over Kerr. Durable.
5. Heath Herring
6. Renato Babalu
7. Mark Kerr
8. Josh Barnett
9. Gilbert Yvel
10. Pete Williams
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Quadros Top 10
Last Updated Friday 6-1-01
HEAVYWEIGHT 205 lb and up (93 kg and up)

1. Mark Coleman
2. Igor Vovchanchyn
3. Rodrigo Nogueira
4. Randy Couture
5. Kazuyuki Fujita
6. Heath Herring
7. Pedro Rizzo
8. Semmy Schilt
9. Valetijn Overeem
10. Tra Telligman
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mixed Martial Arts Media Top 10
August, 2001

Heavyweights - 205 lbs. and up (93 kg and up)

1. Mark Coleman 150
2. Randy Couture 136
3. Pedro Rizzo 116
4. Igor Vovchanchyn 107
5. Heath Herring 100
6. Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira 94
7. Josh Barnett 53
8. Kazuyuki Fujita 52
9. Mark Kerr 20
10. Tra Telligman 19
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fightsport
January 2002

1. Minotauro Rodrigo Nogueira
2. Randy Couture
3. Heath Herring
4. Pedro Rizzo
5. Josh Barnett
6. Mark Coleman
7. Igor Vovchanchyn
8. Ricco Rodriguez
9. Mario Sperry
10. Kazuyuki Fujita

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MMA News
Last updated: May 4, 2003

Heavyweight (200 - 265 lbs.)
1. Emelianenko Fedor
2. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
3. Josh Barnett
4. Tim Sylvia
5. Heath Herring
6. Ricco Rodriguez
7. Wesley Correira
8. Gan McGee
9. Frank Mir
10. Kazuyuki Fujita
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MMA Fighting
July 2004

Heavyweight
1. Fedor Emelianenko- 288 points, 24 1st Place Votes
2. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira- 240 points
3. Josh Barnett- 178 points
4. Mirko Cro Cop- 123 points
5. Frank Mir- 109 points
6. Sergei Kharitonov- 104 points
7. Andrei Arlovski- 86 points
8. Tim Sylvia- 58 points
9. Kazuyuki Fujita- 44 points
10. Kevin Randleman- 37 points
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MMA Fighting
March 2005

Heavyweight
1. Fedor Emelianenko- 320 points, 25 1st Place Votes
2. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira- 254 points, 1 1st Place Vote
3. Mirko Cro Cop- 238 points, 1 1st Place Vote
4. Andrei Arlovski- 167 points
5. Sergei Kharitonov- 140 points
6. Frank Mir- 129 points
7. Josh Barnett- 84 points
8. Kazuyuki Fujita- 61 points
9. Heath Herring- 53 points
10. Aleksander Emelianenko- 34 points

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Fight Press - Fightsport
Friday, June 30, 2006

Heavyweight:
1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Rodrigo Minotauro Nogueira
3. Mark Hunt
4. Mirko Cro Cop Filipovic
5. Fabricio Werdum
6. Sergei Kharitonov
7. Kosh Barnett
8. Alexander Emelinaenko
9. Tim Sylvia
10. Kazuyuki Fujita
Click to expand...
No offense but I think your rankings are a bit funny when you use multiple sources. Where was big Tim in 2005? You have AA as 4th in the world in 2005 then 2006 he loses to Tim twice and Tim is ranked 9? Mir also didn't compete in 2005. He got in an accident in 04.
 
NoSmilez said:
Fedor fought the best but he also had a lot of can fights since it was tournament mode or new year's spectacle. It is easy to pick apart someone's legacy retrospectively but I also dislike how some of Fedor's fans overplay his achievements. His biggest win for me is always going to be Cro Cop in 05. The following(not in order) Zulu, Choi, TK, Hunt, Lindland fights and Coleman 2 were squash matches.

After 2005, we started to see a shift in quality heavyweights moving outside of Pride or lack of new quality HWs. I think rankings in 06 were a bit weird. We had Wanderlei as a top ten HW.
Click to expand...

Both of his wins over Big Nog were bigger than his win over Cro Cop, and probably represented the very best of Fedor (IMO).

That being said, one thing that I don't like is when people say he has wins over "UFC champions" without using the "former" qualifier. It's categorically different beating Frank Mir in 2018 vs. 2004.
 
There are a lot of different logical fallacies and revisionism that go into calling Fedor a can-crusher. A lot of the guys cited as cans come from Fedor's first couple of fights in RINGS where they debuted and never fought again, or they had a winning record before fighting Fedor and ended up with a losing one after.
 
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