For those that say Fedor was a can crusher :

[NoSmilez]

I suggest ya watch TK´s fight against Ricardo Morais, some 17 months b4:



And if ya dont know about Morais, well... watch his fights too.

Again was Ricardo Morais ranked? Was he even really active? Is he even top 20 at that point?

 

[Aluminati]

He wasn't very good. Certainly nobody to brag about beating.

He gave Ken Shamrock a heart attack using only his face as a punching bag. HW version of a fucking Diaz brother.

 

[DayV]

No offense but I think your rankings are a bit funny when you use multiple sources. Where was big Tim in 2005? You have AA as 4th in the world in 2005 then 2006 he loses to Tim twice and Tim is ranked 9? Mir also didn't compete in 2005. He got in an accident in 04.

No point in asking me that, it is simply as it was seen by fans, media and journalists at those times who followed MMA and had knowledge about scene and fighters.

Those rankings are genuine from that time, they represent views of MMA public and journalists about positions and quality of fighters at those times as it was seen in that historic times. Same as today's rankings give picture of who is positioned where, and who is considered as good in today's time. They are the best and most legit picture and evidence of how things were back then.

Considering this thread, plenty of rankings - hard written evidences, show that Fujita was viewed as good fighter in those years.

 

[NoSmilez]

Both of his wins over Big Nog were bigger than his win over Cro Cop, and probably represented the very best of Fedor (IMO).

That being said, one thing that I don't like is when people say he has wins over "UFC champions" without using the "former" qualifier. It's categorically different beating Frank Mir in 2018 vs. 2004.

I am speaking about Cro Cop vs Fedor in terms of how I feel. I was genuinely excited for that matchup. The first Nogueira fight was an upset but at that point I think as a fan I was looking forward to someone new against Fedor. I was pretty sure the sentiment after the Nog series was that Fedor had his number, I was pretty sure folks were trying to pass Josh as the next guy to fight Fedor. Of course Pride folded and whatever happen happened.

 

[gono btw]

Again was Ricardo Morais ranked? Was he even really active? Is he even top 20 at that point?

OK, I understand that ya´ve never watched the TK vs Morais fight.

Go watch Morais´ fights, in the GOAT Tournament, IAFC., for instance.

Ya wont find any ranking about him, since those who were droppin´rankings back then had limited knowledge about the Brazilian and Russian NHB scene (and he didnt fight between 2000 and 2002).
It is what it is.

In time, between the Morais and the Fedor fight, TK fought and won against Waterman in Pancrase, won the belt there.
So it was basically a Champ vs Champ situation.
(consider that TK was a pivotal figure in JMMA, too)

 

[dmwalking]

Gave up > mentally, when he acknowledged Fujita´s [unreal] toughness. Most fighters would have been KOed after the 1st 2 knees to the head. Fujita ate some 4.

Nah, his body quit on him. You don't remember him talking about how his body shut down? Had Kerr not had that medical issue, there's no reason Kerr wouldn't have won. Same with Shamrock.

 

[gono btw]

Nah, his body quit on him. You don't remember him talking about how his body shut down? Had Kerr not had that medical issue, there's no reason Kerr wouldn't have won. Same with Shamrock.

Not really. His body quit on him later in the fight.

Between the 1st 90 sec ya were talkin about, and the next 90 sec, his body was fine, he went full force and dropped some 4 knees to Fujita´s head.
That´s when he quit mentally, but b4 his body quit on him.

 

[donkeyjr]

Fedor fans are so insecure, its hilarious..Fedor will always be ovverrated, you pride fans love to overrate yall fighters. Get your old ass out of this forum.

 

[NoSmilez]

OK, I understand that ya´ve never watched the TK vs Morais fight.

Go watch Morais´ fights, in the GOAT Tournament, IAFC., for instance.

Ya wont find any ranking about him, since those who were droppin´rankings back then had limited knowledge about the Brazilian and Russian NHB scene (and he didnt fight between 2000 and 2002).
It is what it is.

In time, between the Morais and the Fedor fight, TK fought and won against Waterman in Pancrase, won the belt there.
So it was basically a Champ vs Champ situation.
(consider that TK was a pivotal figure in JMMA, too)

Come on. Don't equate the pancrase champion to pride championship.
I know who Morais is and I might have seen him at a certain academy.
The point is that TK had no business being in that ring with Fedor for that rematch. If you look up the definition of a squash match; that was it.

 

[FacePlantingPro]

Layout the best fights he has fought. And see what his record is.

No question is was the best HW during Pride ERA, but since? The guy got exposed.

Sorry but is isn't GOAT.

 

[gono btw]

Come on. Don't equate the pancrase champion to pride championship.
I know who Morais is and I might have seen him at a certain academy.
The point is that TK had no business being in that ring with Fedor for that rematch. If you look up the definition of a squash match; that was it.

It´s part of the equation.

If ya know who Morais is, then give me your [technical] assessment of the Coleman fight.

 

[Stevanchez]

Where did you get 8 title defences? Fedor only defended against Hunt, Cro Cop, and Nog. The rest of his fights while champion were non title fights.

Sylvia, Arlovski, and Rogers were all title fights. Fedor become inaugural WAMMA HW Champion after joining Affliction (similar to Aldo and Cruz becoming inaugural UFC Champions). Making that the #1 HW Championship.

8 #1 HW title fights, 7 defenses:
- Nog 3x (1 ended in No Contest)
- Cro Cop
- Hunt
- Sylvia
- Arlovski
- Rogers

 

[cade187]

Sylvia, Arlovski, and Rogers were all title fights. Fedor become inaugural WAMMA HW Champion after joining Affliction (similar to Aldo and Cruz becoming inaugural UFC Champions). Making that the #1 HW Championship.

8 #1 HW title fights, 7 defenses:
- Nog 3x (1 ended in No Contest)
- Cro Cop
- Hunt
- Sylvia
- Arlovski
- Rogers

Didn't realize we were counting made up titles. And Fedor's second fight with Nog wasn't for a title.

 

[Stevanchez]

Didn't realize we were counting made up titles. And Fedor's second fight with Nog wasn't for a title.

It was for the 2004 HW GP Championship(which would have resulted in the #1 HW being crowned) and it ended in a NC. Which doesn't change my original total of 7 #1 HW Title Defenses.

As for WAMMA. Were those fights not for a belt? Did it not belong to the unanimous #1 HW in the world? Since it was given to the #1 HW and PRIDE HW Champion, is it not just a continuation of the lineal #1 and PRIDE HW Championship?

 

[NoSmilez]

It´s part of the equation.

If ya know who Morais is, then give me your [technical] assessment of the Coleman fight.

They are both one dimensional guys. Neither men had striking fundamentals. You have olympic wrestler vs a purple belt. Both guys like the top game but only one could get it. Fight was spent on the ground with Morais on his back with no submission attempts. I can't remember the exact play by play nor I want to rewatch that fight.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

he was a can crusher. beat good fighters too but theres a lot of mediocrity mixed in.

 

[gono btw]

They are both one dimensional guys. Neither men had striking fundamentals. You have olympic wrestler vs a purple belt. Both guys like the top game but only one could get it. Fight was spent on the ground with Morais on his back with no submission attempts. I can't remember the exact play by play nor I want to rewatch that fight.

Well..If ya dont assess this fight, ya cant assess the TK vs Morais one, and consequently cant understand the Fedor vs TK one.

It is what it is.

 

[NoSmilez]

Well..If ya dont assess this fight, ya cant assess the TK vs Morais one, and consequently cant understand the Fedor vs TK one.

It is what it is.

No I am not going to play pretend a win over a bouncer who doesn't train full time is enough to fight for the number 1 spot in the world.

 

[gono btw]

No I am not going to play pretend a win over a bouncer who doesn't train full time is enough to fight for the number 1 spot in the world.

Let´s not pretend ya did watch the Morais vs Coleman or TK vs Morais fights....

 

[ferrisjso]

Fedor fought pretty much the same quantity of top fighters during his reign per year as an active modern fighter did.

He simply added sprinkled in freaks/cans/normies to the tab along the way.

No Fedor defended his title three times in 3 and a half years. That is not the same quantity. Sure it's better than Cain but that's bout it. I know all the other fights weren't "cans" some of his best opponents weren't title shots cause that's how tournaments work but most quality fighters don't get title shots in the UFC, you got the best or there's got to some reason for Dana to give it someone else. So the quality was typically worse even though the non title fights weren't all cans.

UFC HW division was awful but the Pride HW division did not stomp the UFC HW division when the merger happened. Big Nog got an IC same as in Pride.