For those that say Fedor was a can crusher :

Stevanchez said:
It was for the 2004 HW GP Championship(which would have resulted in the #1 HW being crowned) and it ended in a NC. Which doesn't change my original total of 7 #1 HW Title Defenses.

As for WAMMA. Were those fights not for a belt? Did it not belong to the unanimous #1 HW in the world? Since it was given to the #1 HW and PRIDE HW Champion, is it not just a continuation of the lineal #1 and PRIDE HW Championship?
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Fedor stopped being the unanimous #1 when he ducked the UFC in his prime, where the competition was. It's no surprise that he went on a losing streak at 32 years old shortly after.
 
ferrisjso said:
No Fedor defended his title three times in 3 and a half years. That is not the same quantity. Sure it's better than Cain but that's bout it. I know all the other fights weren't "cans" some of his best opponents weren't title shots cause that's how tournaments work but most quality fighters don't get title shots in the UFC, you got the best or there's got to some reason for Dana to give it someone else. So the quality was typically worse even though the non title fights weren't all cans.
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Pride didn't have a strict relationship of fights to title defenses.

That's why you have to actually drill down to the fight-level.

IIRC, Fedor has more top 10 wins than anyone at HW in MMA history besides Nog (who he beat like a drum twice). Most of those were in Pride.
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
Pride didn't have a strict relationship of fights to title defenses.

That's why you have to actually drill down to the fight-level.

IIRC, Fedor has more top 10 wins than anyone at HW in MMA history besides Nog (who he beat like a drum twice). Most of those were in Pride.
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Yeah no doubt but title defenses are typically top 1-top 2 wins. Not saying all of Fedor's opponents were "cans" but difference between a quality opponent and a typical title defense.
 
FranOlivetto said:
Sorry
1461839443-maradona-dribble.gif
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<{you!}>
 
gono btw said:
Let´s not pretend ya did watch the Morais vs Coleman or TK vs Morais fights....

View attachment 513435
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What did I say wrong about the Morais fight with Coleman? It didn't take place on the ground? Did anything substantial happen? Was there meaningful standup? Tell me in your best Robin Black analysis of the fight. Tell me the technical details if you can? Did Morais attempt any sweeps? Submissions? Was the fight even competitive?
 
Fedor and everyone else at the top fought inferior talent as well as world class. You can't deny Fedor as the GOAT. Last I checked Anderson Silva had a good streak of crushing "cans" during his prime...
 
OrigFan255 said:
Fedor beat the best of the time AND a majority of his competition would be bounced from USADA had it been around.

Fedor beating every juiced up great for 10 years was best run ever.
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How you know he wasn't juicing
 
TrueFightFan said:
If you must include GSP, Jon Jones and Anderson Silva in the GOAT discussion with Fedor, you will have to address the fact that ALL THREE OF THEM cut weight to duck better and stronger competition. Fedor ducked no one. There will be those who say he "ducked the UFC" but if you look at the fact that, not including the last two years, the UFC had not paid out any fighter more than a million dollars, why would Fedor EVER fight in the UFC if he was making millions per fight in other organizations. If Dana truly wanted to see how great Fedor was or wasn't, he could have put up any of his Heavyweight Champions in a fight like he did with Chuck Lidell. My opinion is that, because Lidell got smashed in Pride and came back to the UFC and became champion, most fight enthusiasts know that Dana would never want to put a black eye on his organization again. So you just wait it out, Fedor, as all champions, would eventually lose and then you can claim you offered all kinds of money and he wouldn't accept and that all he ever fought were cans. Dana, to UFC fans, is like Jon Jones and the bible: they just pick and choose which lines they want to believe.

You want to be considered the greatest of all time? Duck no one.
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He never fought in the UFC. When he did finally fight in the concensus SECOND best MMA organization, he got obliterated. Facts.
 
dontlaugh said:
So PRIDE "cans" were all fucking awesome, look what they're capable of doing :

kevin_randleman_suplex.gif


Tell me a UFC fighter that would take one of those and survive ?

Fedor-Fujita-1.gif


Yeah, wild sloppy swings are useless, technique has to be flashy right ? fuck that, Fujita almost blasted Fedor's head out the planet.

This "can crusher" thing is bullshit. It's MMA, everything can happen, any "can" can get the upset in their lucky night. Those were some of the best HW's at the time.

What Fedor gets credit for is : keeping a long ass winning streak against the BEST of his era AND a lot of tough fighters, he did some freakshows, but using these fights to pretend his opponents were not good, or at least posed a threat to him...bullshit.

Is like me hating Conor and having to say Aldo, Mendes and Alvarez are all cans. Even if in 20 years better Featherweights and Lighweights show up, he done beat the best around these days and i have to give him that. Why Fedor haters can't do the same ?

Fedor is the best HW of all time.
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The best HW of all time would be able to beat all past and present HWs...Fedor cannot.
 
Tephlon said:
How you know he wasn't juicing
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Better get his money back because he definitely passed the eye test.

I don’t know and neither do you. Based on physique, I believe he didn’t but only Fedor truly knows.
 
Fedor crushed a lot of cans, but he also crushed a lot of elite HWs.
 
NoSmilez said:
What did I say wrong about the Morais fight with Coleman? It didn't take place on the ground? Did anything substantial happen? Was there meaningful standup? Tell me in your best Robin Black analysis of the fight. Tell me the technical details if you can? Did Morais attempt any sweeps? Submissions? Was the fight even competitive?
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At least ya acknowledged that ya´ve never watched the TK vs Morais fight @ NJPW.

In time, ya either didnt watch the Coleman vs Morais fight, or ya forgot about it.
Either way, the "technical assessment" ya dropped looked like a quick youtube overview tbh...

Wont drop here a serious assessment of that fight according to the 7 Pride Criterias [see Decons Part 27 about the SAKU vs Mezger fight], but quickly:

> on the feet: Coleman scored nothing, Morais not much but connected more than Coleman, but very limited damage.> Nod to Morais

> on the ground: no submission attempts from Morais, weak sub attempt from Coleman (neck cranck).
Since Coleman got the TDs & Ground Control, and somehow managed to pass guard [from guard to side control], but very limited damage > Nod to Coleman

> Weight Difference = 25 lbs [=11 kg < 15 Kg]
Coleman @ 245 lbs
Morais @ 270 lbs

Overall: close fight, Coleman somehow got the nod, not an easy fight to score (not much to score).
 
I always said he was a can crusher after PRIDE until he fought and beat Frank Mir. For years I dreamed of that matchup, and when Fedor won I set back and thought 'well, I can't call him a can crusher anymore'. Even if his win against Chael means anything...
 
gono btw said:
TK... a 'squash' match...
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Btw dude I don't spend much time in the heavies but it's good to see other old school fans that have been watching more than 6 months. Always enjoy your posts.

{<redford}
 
Only Here for Attachments said:
There are a lot of different logical fallacies and revisionism that go into calling Fedor a can-crusher. A lot of the guys cited as cans come from Fedor's first couple of fights in RINGS where they debuted and never fought again, or they had a winning record before fighting Fedor and ended up with a losing one after.
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Fedor fought goddamn everybody except people that were terrified to fight him. Saying he ducked the UFC is bullshit too because at the time strikeforce had the best hw division.

So he didn't fight Barnett because he pissed hot. Didn't want to fight overroid because gtfo that shit was ridiculous. And that's it. As far as the UFC hws he tried to fight randy, crushed sylvia AND Arlovski.

By the time jds or cain were worth fighting he was in strikeforce which had DC, Barnett, Werdum, Bigfoot, Arlovski, Reem etc.
 
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