Crime Firearms

[rob mafia]

you misrepresented my argument of consequence as cause. i never made it as simple as “mexico only wants guns because they’re attached to america.“ they have guns because they want guns, and they get them easily from america.

you're such a liar. you said:

"it’s easy for criminals to get guns in mexico because they’re attached to america."

and that's it. that's not only the end of the sentence... and paragraph, but the entire post. so yes, you DID make it as simple as that.

and you’ve been hung up on your own strawman now for half a dozen posts, so you’re just refusing to engage that point.

lolz @ still accusing me of strawman. what strawman? you keep harping on some magical strawman fallacy, but i still have no idea what it's even supposed to be.

and lolz @ wrong. no, that wasn't just right - it was EXACTLY that. you cited toronto and handguns and then claimed it's canada and all guns.

all you have is lies.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Because it’s a ridiculous inclusion during the argument of being safer in the home while a firearm is in the home.

Safer from suicide is a false equivalency when there is a discussion about safety from intrusion.

The discussion is about safety in general and thinking only about the risk of intrusion without considering the risk of suicide or accidents is an incomplete discussion of safety.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

you're such a liar. you said:

"it’s easy for criminals to get guns in mexico because they’re attached to america."

and that's it. that's not only the end of the sentence... and paragraph, but the entire post. so yes, you DID make it as simple as that.

that is a true statement. it’s also easy for canada, they just don’t have the same demand.

lolz @ still accusing me of strawman. what strawman? you keep harping on some magical strawman fallacy, but i still have no idea what it's even supposed to be.

and lolz @ wrong. no, that wasn't just right - it was EXACTLY that. you cited toronto and handguns and then claimed it's canada and all guns.

all you have is lies.

you’re right i should have tried to find data that doesn’t exist instead. i guess the largest city in the country is a bad place to start



so go find gun tracing stats from the yukon territories instead, pal. i’m sure there’s a ton of data.

 

[rob mafia]

that is a true statement. it’s also easy for canada, they just don’t have the same demand.

...you just denied it and called it a false equivalence. it seems that you can't even keep your lies straight.

you’re right i should have tried to find data that doesn’t exist instead. i guess the largest city in the country is a bad place to start

so go find gun tracing stats from the yukon territories instead, pal. i’m sure there’s a ton of data.

...the one accusing me of misrepresenting via direct quotes (and strawman, somehow) and who's been caught lying repeatedly, ladies and gentlemen.




toronto handguns = canada and all guns, amirite? no misrepresenting, here!

 

[rob mafia]

The discussion is about safety in general and thinking only about the risk of intrusion without considering the risk of suicide or accidents is an incomplete discussion of safety.

wat

lefties: legalize drugs!

also lefties: ban guns because suicide

 

[spamking]

Bringing up vehcles does lead to a good analogy here; if you own an SUV or pick up truck you are more likely to run over your children. That is a real risk that consumers should know about just the same as suicides are for gun owners.

<[analyzed}>

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

...you just denied it and called it a false equivalence. it seems that you can't even keep your lies straight.

what are you even talking about lmao you asked why canada doesn’t have the same gun crime as mexico and it’s because they aren’t the gateway country to the international drug trade.

...the one accusing me of misrepresenting via direct quotes (and strawman, somehow) and who's been caught lying repeatedly, ladies and gentlemen.

you having no argument & making strawman points doesn’t mean i’m lying lmao

toronto handguns = canada and all guns, amirite? no misrepresenting, here!

so find contrary data. easily available gun tracing stats come out of ontario and they all back up the point.

 

[rob mafia]

what are you even talking about lmao you asked why canada doesn’t have the same gun crime as mexico and it’s because they aren’t the gateway country to the international drug trade.

...so, like i said, you're moving your own goalposts.

you having no argument & making strawman points doesn’t mean i’m lying lmao

"strawman"

and the numerous quotes of yours that contradict mean you're lying.

so find contrary data. easily available gun tracing stats come out of ontario and they all back up the point.

wat

i don't have the burden of proof to prove your claims, genius. and i can prove that toronto isn't all of canada and that toronto's handguns aren't all of canada's guns of all types... so...

derp! you really thought that one through!

like i said, all you have is lies.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

...so, like i said, you're moving your own goalposts.

you asked the question <Lmaoo> i’m moving goalposts by answering you while you move the goalposts to canada? <Lmaoo>

"strawman"

and the numerous quotes of yours that contradict mean you're lying.

you made up an argument that i didn’t make and are now arguing against it. that is a strawman.

wat

i don't have the burden of proof to prove your claims, genius. and i can prove that toronto isn't all of canada and that toronto's handguns aren't all of canada's guns of all types... so...

derp! you really thought that one through!

like i said, all you have is lies.

lmfaooo bro said “i understand all the data is completely contradicting what i say. by the way, if i claim you’re wrong i don’t have to prove it”

 

[Belaya Smert]

The discussion is about safety in general and thinking only about the risk of intrusion without considering the risk of suicide or accidents is an incomplete discussion of safety.

I have engaged in more conversations with Left leaning pro gun control posters and the one thing they to seem disregard almost categorically is how much the gun deaths are buttressed by the suicide numbers. There also seem to be an ability to ignore drug dealing and gang affiliations (specifically with the CDC’s most recent analysis of deaths between ages of 0-17 for Calendar year 2020)

 

[Islam Imamate]

I have engaged in more conversations with Left leaning pro gun control posters and the one thing they to seem disregard almost categorically is how much the gun deaths are buttressed by the suicide numbers. There also seem to be an ability to ignore drug dealing and gang affiliations (specifically with the CDC’s most recent analysis of deaths between ages of 0-17 for Calendar year 2020)

It depends on the specific discussion whether suicides are relevant or not. If we're talking about violent crime then of course suicides are irrelevant. The gang affiliation is the same. If the claim is made that there's dozens or hundreds of mass shootings in the wake of something like the Nashville shooting its kind of misleading as most of those are gang related. But if its a discussion about violent crime generally then I don't see why we should discount those.

 

[rob mafia]

you asked the question Lmaoo i’m moving goalposts by answering you while you move the goalposts to canada? Lmaoo

wat

you said "attached to america." canada is "attached to america." in what multiverse is that a moved goalpost? it's the identical goalpost.

derp

you made up an argument that i didn’t make and are now arguing against it. that is a strawman.

you not only made it, but it was quoted.

lmfaooo bro said “i understand all the data is completely contradicting what i say. by the way, if i claim you’re wrong i don’t have to prove it”

yeah, it's a crazy tin foil theory that there is more to canada than toronto and more to guns than handguns.

all you have is lies. and they're not even good lies.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Why?

Bringing up vehcles does lead to a good analogy here; if you own an SUV or pick up truck you are more likely to run over your children. That is a real risk that consumers should know about just the same as suicides are for gun owners.

This demonstrates a very deep misunderstanding about mental illness and the role of guns in suicides. Tens of millions of Americans suffer from depression and ~25% of Americans will suffer from a mental illness at some point in their life with the number increasing to ~50% when you include the elderly so we're not talking about a few nutcases here. And over 1 million attempt suicide annually. Guns are the most effective and simple method of suicide therefore having a gun in the home radically increases the ease and lethality of a suicide attempt. Idk why that argument is so hard to understand for some. Not saying we should ban guns because of that but from an individual POV that's absolutely something that should be considered before owning a gun. Your average suburbanite is much more likely to experience depression and suicidal ideation than to be a victim of violent crime.

Oh I get what you are saying and I am aware that people need to know exactly who they are before they buy a gun. Also helps to have people around that care that can intervene on your behalf. I had to take away a friend of mines guns a few years back when he went through some shit. I just think suicide should be it's own Stat and shouldn't have anything to do with if guns are legal or not or count towards gun violence . Im also aware a ton of people suffer from depression. I dont think that by itself should disqualify anyone from owning one but it's something the owner should be aware of. I'm not as well spoken as you are but I feel like your post goes with what I was trying to say

 

[Belaya Smert]

It depends on the specific discussion whether suicides are relevant or not. If we're talking about violent crime then of course suicides are irrelevant. The gang affiliation is the same. If the claim is made that there's dozens or hundreds of mass shootings in the wake of something like the Nashville shooting its kind of misleading as most of those are gang related. But if its a discussion about violent crime generally then I don't see why we should discount those.

Mental Health and crime prevention would be two solutions to combat the largest categories of deaths by firearm. (#1suicide/#2gang violence) If we are having a legitimate discussion on how to reduce death from firearms then both topics need to be addressed. The gun control solution from the left usually involves passing laws for people that already have proven they don’t follow them.

 

[RemyR]

I just wish ammo wasn't so damn expensive what the hell.

That's the legislation we need to pass.

 

[Rob Battisti]

The discussion is about safety in general and thinking only about the risk of intrusion without considering the risk of suicide or accidents is an incomplete discussion of safety.

To say to someone of sound mind that they are more at risk of death because of a gun in the house is a baseless argument and a clear misuse of the statistics. It’s a bad argument and one that I’m surprised you’re willing to stand behind.

 

[Islam Imamate]

To say to someone of sound mind that they are more at risk of death because of a gun in the house is a baseless argument and a clear misuse of the statistics. It’s a bad argument and one that I’m surprised you’re willing to stand behind.

That's not what I said though, not sure why you can't just read my argument and engage with it honestly.

 

[650lb Sumo]

Mental Health and crime prevention would be two solutions to combat the largest categories of deaths by firearm. (#1suicide/#2gang violence) If we are having a legitimate discussion on how to reduce death from firearms then both topics need to be addressed. The gun control solution from the left usually involves passing laws for people that already have proven they don’t follow them.

The trope that gang violence is a top cause of firearm homicide came up in this thread

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/us-child-gunshot-er-visits-surged-during-pandemic.4285525/page-2

I couldn't find stats for the percentage of murders with a gun that are gang related but as I said there, estimates for the percentage of all murders in the USA which are gang related vary from 6% to 13%.

 

[rob mafia]

The trope that gang violence is a top cause of firearm homicide came up in this thread

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/us-child-gunshot-er-visits-surged-during-pandemic.4285525/page-2

I couldn't find stats for the percentage of murders with a gun that are gang related but as I said there, estimates for the percentage of all murders in the USA which are gang related vary from 6% to 13%.

in philly, it seems to be about half.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Why?

Bringing up vehcles does lead to a good analogy here; if you own an SUV or pick up truck you are more likely to run over your children. That is a real risk that consumers should know about just the same as suicides are for gun owners.

This demonstrates a very deep misunderstanding about mental illness and the role of guns in suicides. Tens of millions of Americans suffer from depression and ~25% of Americans will suffer from a mental illness at some point in their life with the number increasing to ~50% when you include the elderly so we're not talking about a few nutcases here. And over 1 million attempt suicide annually. Guns are the most effective and simple method of suicide therefore having a gun in the home radically increases the ease and lethality of a suicide attempt. Idk why that argument is so hard to understand for some. Not saying we should ban guns because of that but from an individual POV that's absolutely something that should be considered before owning a gun. Your average suburbanite is much more likely to experience depression and suicidal ideation than to be a victim of violent crime.

I just wish ammo wasn't so damn expensive what the hell.

That's the legislation we need to pass.

I second this. Let's make that bill make all cell chargers the same size too we can call it the simple improvement act of 2023