Crime Firearms

[rob mafia]

it’s easy for criminals to get guns in mexico because they’re attached to america.

but not canada... amirite?

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

but not canada... amirite?

not canada what? they’re not attached to canada?

 

[rob mafia]

not canada what? they’re not attached to canada?

...attached to the usa, which was JUST your explanation for mexico's gun crime.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

...attached to the usa, which was JUST your explanation for mexico's gun crime.

canada doesn’t have a demand for firearms, the fact that mexico’s demand is largely illegal drugs doesn’t really support your point. mexico is the pathway between most of the world’s drug agriculture and america, canada isn’t.

 

[Spetsnaz77]

not that i ever wish home invasions on anyone, but fuck. if your home is ever hit, i feel really bad for your family. what are you going to do? turn the lights on (apparently, your go-to) and yell that you're unarmed?

which ivory tower are you posting from?

Dress in a Batman costume from Johnny Brock's

 

[rob mafia]

canada doesn’t have a demand for firearms, the fact that mexico’s demand is largely illegal drugs doesn’t really support your point. mexico is the pathway between most of the world’s drug agriculture and america, canada isn’t.

wat

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

wat

mexico is the country between america and the drugs, so they have a demand for guns. i didn’t say mexico is full of guns simply because they’re attached to america. they have a demand for them. being attached to america simply gives them easy access.

you’re making a false equivalence to canada. for the record, toronto police said 86% of handguns used in the gun crimes they DO have in their city come from america.

 

[oldshadow]

Thanks for sharing your story and I'm glad that it ended well (although it would have better if he got caught that night). Guns certainly can be and are used for good, or neutral ends. You said you were already into guns but it's understandable that when something like that happens or you hear about it happening you might feel safer owning a firearm. However for every time something like that happens there are several times when the gun is used for ill. This is common sense and has been proven, including by multiple large scale studies by the best university in the world, like I quoted.

On the face of it people can make up any figure they want about how many times they or others 'prevented a crime' with their gun. There is usually no evidence, and assuming they are telling the truth, they still don't know what would have happened without it. As I mentioned above, owning a gun is also linked to causing and escalating confrontation, ie using it to bully people. Academics and government studies have specifically debunked the implausibly large claimed DGU figures. Also making guns easily available means the criminals now have them. Still it's up to you to believe the stats or not, if you don't that's your prerogative.

I believe the stats but the conclusions are stated in ways to reinforce what the people of the study want. Like discounting legal or illegally owns guns.

 

[Belaya Smert]

...attached to the usa, which was JUST your explanation for mexico's gun crime.

Overwhelming drug and gang/cartel related. They want to blame the inanimate object and sue gun manufacturers. Fuck em

 

[rob mafia]

mexico is the country between america and the drugs, so they have a demand for guns. i didn’t say mexico is full of guns simply because they’re attached to america. they have a demand for them. being attached to america simply gives them easy access.

you’re making a false equivalence to canada. for the record, toronto police said 86% of handguns used in the gun crimes they DO have in their city come from america.

it’s easy for criminals to get guns in mexico because they’re attached to america.

looks like you did.

lolz @ calling being "attached to america" a false equivalence. it's a literal equivalence. they're both literally attached to the usa.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

looks like you did.

lolz @ calling being "attached to america" a false equivalence. it's a literal equivalence. they're both literally attached to the usa.

i said it’s easy to get guns from america, not that they have an artificial demand from simply being attached to america. if they didn’t have most of the world’s drug supply on the other side, they wouldn’t need the guns.

 

[rob mafia]

i said it’s easy to get guns from america, not that they have an artificial demand from simply being attached to america. if they didn’t have most of the world’s drug supply on the other side, they wouldn’t need the guns.

yeah, we know. you said something dumb and then you tried to move goalposts with some other dumb thing. and then you called canada a false equivalency, despite meeting the only criteria you had provided.

and lolz @ thinking they only need the guns because drugs. blame guns! blame drugs! blame avocados!

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

yeah, we know. you said something dumb and then you tried to move goalposts with some other dumb thing. and then you called canada a false equivalency, despite meeting the only criteria you had provided.

and lolz @ thinking they only need the guns because drugs. blame guns! blame drugs! blame avocados!

lol @ you deliberately misrepresenting my argument and when i try to get it back on track, you claim moved goalposts.

i literally said “it’s easy to get guns” being attached to america. not that they need guns because they’re attached to america. the demand comes from the drug trade. nice strawman. it’s also easy for canadians to get weapons from america, as i provided evidence for. they just don’t need them like mexico does.

 

[rob mafia]

lol @ you deliberately misrepresenting my argument

dude, i fucking quoted it... and requoted it.

how is it misrepresenting, in ANY way, at all?

you claim moved goalposts.

...because you moved goalposts from attached to usa to drugs after canada was mentioned.

i literally said “it’s easy to get guns” being attached to america. not that they need guns because they’re attached to america. the demand comes from the drug trade. nice strawman. it’s also easy for canadians to get weapons from america, as i provided evidence for. they just don’t need them like mexico does.

lolz @ accusing me of strawman for fucking quoting you.



a perfect 5/7 xhibits.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

dude, i fucking quoted it... and requoted it.

how is it misrepresenting, in ANY way, at all?

i literally said ease of access. you brought up canada who has less crime across the board as some sort of gotcha, though they get most of their guns from america too

 

[rob mafia]

i literally said ease of access. you brought up canada who has less crime across the board as some sort of gotcha

if by gotcha, you mean... easily refuted your claim, then sure.

so you can't answer re: misrepresenting? shocking.

though they get most of their guns from america too

so you went from moving goalposts, accusing me of strawman and somehow misrepresenting (still waiting to hear how i misrepresented...) and now you're just outright lying.

you cited one city and handguns. now it's all of canada and all guns? really? who's misrepresenting?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Take suicides out and try again

Why?

Did you know that if you drive a gas-powered vehicle that you're more likely going to have to pay for gas?

Bringing up vehcles does lead to a good analogy here; if you own an SUV or pick up truck you are more likely to run over your children. That is a real risk that consumers should know about just the same as suicides are for gun owners.

Its not picking and choosing not all data is relevant to all discussions. If you aren't a headcase having a gun in the home isn't an issue. If something happens that makes you suicidal you are either going to give your guns to a friend and seek help or you are gonna do it and in reverse if you are suicidal you can also either buy one or again seek help. In regards to suicide the gun is not gun violence but just the tool used and thus it should not be part of the discussion on gun violence

Which beings us back to if you are not a complete retard that Stat you love is horse shit

This demonstrates a very deep misunderstanding about mental illness and the role of guns in suicides. Tens of millions of Americans suffer from depression and ~25% of Americans will suffer from a mental illness at some point in their life with the number increasing to ~50% when you include the elderly so we're not talking about a few nutcases here. And over 1 million attempt suicide annually. Guns are the most effective and simple method of suicide therefore having a gun in the home radically increases the ease and lethality of a suicide attempt. Idk why that argument is so hard to understand for some. Not saying we should ban guns because of that but from an individual POV that's absolutely something that should be considered before owning a gun. Your average suburbanite is much more likely to experience depression and suicidal ideation than to be a victim of violent crime.

 

[My Spot]

Because suicides shouldn't count when you are trying to prove or disprove if something is dangerous. You taking yourself out isn't a societal problem it's a family problem. It is not my responsibility to make sure you don't kill yourself and our rights should not be up for debate based on it. If you want to argue guns are dangerous in my opinion only how that relates to you (even though I don't agree) is the only valid argument you can make. I'm Uncomfortable with people owning a gun cuz I don't want them to kill me makes sense. I'm Uncomfortable with you owning a gun because you might kill yourself is a bit too nanny for me. Also I know I'm not going to kill myself so again it's not a valid argument to me

Well of course gun controlls want to treat suicides exactly the same as homicides. Gotta pump those numbers up.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

if by gotcha, you mean... easily refuted your claim, then sure.

so you can't answer re: misrepresenting? shocking.

you misrepresented my argument of consequence as cause. i never made it as simple as “mexico only wants guns because they’re attached to america.“ they have guns because they want guns, and they get them easily from america. and you’ve been hung up on your own strawman now for half a dozen posts, so you’re just refusing to engage that point.

so you went from moving goalposts, accusing me of strawman and somehow misrepresenting (still waiting to hear how i misrepresented...) and now you're just outright lying.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Why?

Bringing up vehcles does lead to a good analogy here; if you own an SUV or pick up truck you are more likely to run over your children. That is a real risk that consumers should know about just the same as suicides are for gun owners.

This demonstrates a very deep misunderstanding about mental illness and the role of guns in suicides. Tens of millions of Americans suffer from depression and ~25% of Americans will suffer from a mental illness at some point in their life with the number increasing to ~50% when you include the elderly so we're not talking about a few nutcases here. And over 1 million attempt suicide annually. Guns are the most effective and simple method of suicide therefore having a gun in the home radically increases the ease and lethality of a suicide attempt. Idk why that argument is so hard to understand for some. Not saying we should ban guns because of that but from an individual POV that's absolutely something that should be considered before owning a gun. Your average suburbanite is much more likely to experience depression and suicidal ideation than to be a victim of violent crime.

Because it’s a ridiculous inclusion during the argument of being safer in the home while a firearm is in the home.

Safer from suicide is a false equivalency when there is a discussion about safety from intrusion.