Media Firas Zahabi says Fedor would KO Prime Cain Velasquez

ChessJitsu said:
maybe in relative terms but in 2010 you didn't have guys like Tom Aspinall.

science builds on knowledge of yesterday.

A regular scientist at MIT knows way more than Isaac Newton did though in contextual frame Isaac Newton is way more brilliant than anyone in MIT today.
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DiazSlap said:
Perhaps the dumbest take of the year.

Correction: Indeed the dumbest.
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Nah if you keep at bjj you will see when you get near 40 the sport is still the same. It feels like 5 years all changes cause you are young and everything in your world changed in 5 years.
 
StewDogg11 said:
Revisionist bullshit. How was Fedor declining? Jumping into the guard like a dumbass against a BJJ champion like Werdum somehow means you’re declining? No it means you’re a dipshit.

He was like a -800 favorite against Bigfoot so not everyone was sipping the same bullshit as you were that he was declining.
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Fedor became the HW world champion in 2003 and had the biggest title defense of his life in 2005. He lost to Bigfoot and Hendo in 8 years after becoming champion and 6 years after the biggest title defense of his life. Show me one fighter who's not declining 6-8 years after the biggest fights of their lives. You're most likely an obese imbecile who's never trained a day in his life and doesn't understand how and athletic peak works and how athletes decline physically from wear and tear and mental exhaustion. Lousy ass internet chump.
 
Could go either way but I favor Fedor because of his speed advantage. Cain would have a very hard time not getting hit clean in the early exchanges. Fedor would have to be very careful though not to get taken down, especially in a cage. I don't think he'd have an easy time on his back against Cain.
 
The Accuser said:
Funny you leave out the one gut who has submitted 3 out of the 4 guys you mentioned. He is the True HW GOAT.
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I assume You mean Werdum. Let's analyze.

Werdum beat:
  • 25 yo Overeem - pre prime
  • 32 yo Cain - legit
  • 33 yo Fedor - legit
  • 37 yo Nog - past prime

Werdum was beat by:
  • Nog when he was 28 - in prime
  • Arlovski when he was 29 - in prime
  • JDS when he was 31 - in prime
  • Overeem when he was 33 - in prime
  • Stipe when he was 38 - past prime
  • Overeem again when he was 39 - past prime
  • Volkov when he was 40 - past prime
  • Oleinik when both were 42 - equal past prime

So Werdum beat 2 greats in their prime and lost to 4 greats when he himself was in his prime.

While still a very impressive career, the multiple losses to other greats make it hard to argue that Werdum is better than all of them.
 
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Hotora86 said:
I assume You mean Werdum. Let's analyze.

Werdum beat:
  • 24 yo JDS - pre prime
  • 25 yo Overeem - pre prime
  • 32 yo Cain - legit
  • 33 yo Fedor - legit
  • 37 yo Nog - past prime

Werdum was beat by:
  • Nog when he was 28 - in prime
  • Arlovski when he was 29 - in prime
  • JDS when he was 31 - in prime
  • Overeem when he was 33 - in prime
  • Stipe when he was 38 - past prime
  • Overeem again when he was 39 - past prime
  • Volkov when he was 40 - past prime
  • Oleinik when both were 42 - equal past prime

So Werdum beat 2 greats in their prime and lost to 4 greats when he himself was in his prime.

While still a very impressive career, the multiple losses to other greats make it hard to argue that Werdum is better than all of them.
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Hang on, I don't recall Werdum ever beating JDS.
 
StewDogg11 said:
Revisionist bullshit. How was Fedor declining? Jumping into the guard like a dumbass against a BJJ champion like Werdum somehow means you’re declining? No it means you’re a dipshit.

He was like a -800 favorite against Bigfoot so not everyone was sipping the same bullshit as you were that he was declining.
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So firstly, Fedor was not -800. Here’s bestfightodds, they have him at -400. I think some outlets had him in the -500ish range, but def not -800. That’s just nonsense.
Considering 10 years and the Werdum fight played out the way it did, the line is understandable. A betting line of -400/-500 doesn’t mean a fighter is still at their very best, that’s obvious.

And there were a bunch of indications that Fedor wasn’t at his best anymore. The hand injuries initially sustained in the Goodridge fight, and FW-injured against Zulu and before Cro Cop, was becoming even more of a constant problem: he injured it against Sylvia pushing back his next fight with Arlovski, injured again against Rogers along with his nose, injured again in the lead up to Werdum and pushing that fight back…
His knees were fucked from years of judo, he’d finally lost in sambo in 2008, struggled against Arlovski early in that fight in early ‘09, struggled some with Rogers (and showed a clear decline in his grappling in that fight) in late 2009, lost to Werdum in mid-2010.

It’s just plain silly to act like the Fedor who was almost 11 years and 35 fights deep into his career with the slew of injuries that he had, was the exact same fighter we saw between 2002-2005. He pretty clearly wasn’t.
 
How else would it go? Styles make fights. Cains only hope would probably be to press Fedor against the cage for 25 minutes?
 
Tweak896 said:
I dunno. I think Fedor's style aged out. Many later HWs with training would likely take him down and keep him there without the sub. Of course Fedor would've had different training as well if he's fighting them. So I think it's hard to compare eras. But Bigfoot fight really showed what happens when the armbar doesn't come. I actually think Randy vs Fedor would be pretty competitive if Randy's chin held up or he got the takedown before the punch.

Fedor was my favorite fighter and first fight I got to watch in person. I just think it's hard for many fans to acknowledge his glaring weakness. Most the wrestlers he beat he really either won by cardio or sub. Coleman, Randleman, Lindland are usually the examples of wrestlers he beat in his prime. Rings had different rules, but I just imagine if Arona wasn't swept (which by the way almost never happens anymore with current training), he would've won this fight in the UFC.

Fedor vs Arona.
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Arona had elite BJJ. So did Big Foot. That's why Barnett would have been a super interesting matchup. But Cain? I struggle to imagine how he can control Fedor for more than five seconds on the ground. Guys like Fedor, Shogun, Mousasi ate wrestlers with weak BJJ for breakfast. The problem is when the opponent has good takedowns and BJJ at the same time.
 
Ludwig von Mises said:
Fedor became the HW world champion in 2003 and had the biggest title defense of his life in 2005. He lost to Bigfoot and Hendo in 8 years after becoming champion and 6 years after the biggest title defense of his life. Show me one fighter who's not declining 6-8 years after the biggest fights of their lives. You're most likely an obese imbecile who's never trained a day in his life and doesn't understand how and athletic peak works and how athletes decline physically from wear and tear and mental exhaustion. Lousy ass internet chump.
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lol Fedor thanks you for your tenacious defense of him. Wait he literally has no clue who you are.
 
Left Hook Lacy said:
Arona had elite BJJ. So did Big Foot. That's why Barnett would have been a super interesting matchup. But Cain? I struggle to imagine how he can control Fedor for more than five seconds on the ground. Guys like Fedor, Shogun, Mousasi ate wrestlers with weak BJJ for breakfast. The problem is when the opponent has good takedowns and BJJ at the same time.
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I really wanted to see Barnett fight too. The BJJ defense is the key for sure. But hard for me to think Fedor was on great as Werdum off his back with his BJJ offense. We'll never know.

Still most of all, would've been awesome to see the Brock who beat Mir on the ground to clash with Fedor. Or any HW with good takedowns and BJJ defense.
 
Cain puts Fedor on his ass relatively easily and Fedor has no answer. Fedor by early KO is possibly, but not likely.
 
IMO Fedor's legacy is overblown, but I also think the same of Cain's legacy. That said, I do think prime Fedor beats prime Cain.

Fedor's legacy was really hurt by Cro Cop. This was Fedor's signature win IMO, and Cro Cop got utterly embarrassed in the UFC. Nogeuira did slightly better in the UFC but still lost to Frank Mir and never regained the championship after that. It's a shame Fedor never fought in the UFC.

It's also not a good look for Fedor losing to 40 year old Dan Henderson at heavyweight, at only 34 years old. The loss to Bigfoot Silva at 34 years old is also a bad look. And I don't buy that bullshit fight years/miles excuse. Most MMA fighters have been training combat sports since their teen years and have miles on their bodies. Frank Mir almost died in a motorcycle accident and he still beat Big Nog.
 
I wonder if AI could simulate a matchup between prime fedor and prime cain. Would be cool
 
Alpha_T83 said:
IMO Fedor's legacy is overblown, but I also think the same of Cain's legacy. That said, I do think prime Fedor beats prime Cain.

Fedor's legacy was really hurt by Cro Cop. This was Fedor's signature win IMO, and Cro Cop got utterly embarrassed in the UFC. Nogeuira did slightly better in the UFC but still lost to Frank Mir and never regained the championship after that. It's a shame Fedor never fought in the UFC.

It's also not a good look for Fedor losing to 40 year old Dan Henderson at heavyweight, at only 34 years old. The loss to Bigfoot Silva at 34 years old is also a bad look. And I don't buy that bullshit fight years/miles excuse. Most MMA fighters have been training combat sports since their teen years and have miles on their bodies. Frank Mir almost died in a motorcycle accident and he still beat Big Nog.
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I'd say Nog was his signature win personally, but yeah this is all spot on
 
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