Fighting Games Discussion

[what-wut]

I would say definitely two main things.

1- instead of using Cr HP so often for anti air. I started making myself use F HK as the anti air and follow it up with EX Spike or EX Ghost for full combo. Great that I can react, but not using F HK more previously and going for Cr HP into a OH/Low ghost on land, I was leaving a lot of damage and zoning on the table with F HK combos + full screen ender.

2- I started using the tech roll much more. Against most MUs, especially some like Manon, or Chun, etc, I wasn't switching up the WU timing enough and the last thing you want is certain characters knowing where you'll WU and auto-setting their pressure oki. I started mixing it in so the WU timing/location is a lot less predictable which let me WU much better midscreen. Chun specifically I was taking her DR OH/Low mixup on WU too often, but in the MU using tech roll it escapes it and you can poke their whiff, then he tried to switch it up and I didn't tech roll throwing him off. Really strong Chun too with like almost 70k LPs.

Still gonna try to process in a couple of more upgrades, but these are the two by far that stood out last night.

That's definitely stuff that we talked about so I'm glad it's proving useful. Tell me when you play that Gief lol.

 

[MMAisGod]

That's definitely stuff that we talked about so I'm glad it's proving useful. Tell me when you play that Gief lol.

Exactly haha exactly. Always good to be like, hmm, let me try this out and see the difference. And I'll keep you posted, qfter a couple more days I'm definitely gonna hit him up with the "run it back".

 

[what-wut]

Well I guess they really want things to be easier lol.





He must have been ultra salty lol.

Can I still drive cancel by dash? Or is this the only way now, cause this will be seriously lame if this is the only way.

 

[MMAisGod]

Can I still drive cancel by dash? Or is this the only way now, cause this will be seriously lame if this is the only way.

Tell me about ittt. Sounds like it's replacing the dash, and you have to be either neutral or going forward to do it (won't work if you're holding back). As if it was too difficult or something lol.

 

[what-wut]

Tell me about ittt. Sounds like it's replacing the dash, and you have to be either neutral or going forward to do it (won't work if you're holding back). As if it was too difficult or something lol.

I'm hearing different things so fingers crossed.

 

[MMAisGod]

I'm hearing different things so fingers crossed.

That you can still do it with dash? That would be ideal. I've already learned that way I don't want to change it LOL.

 

[Crimson Fury]

Achieved Diamond with Honda.

 

[Gingerdead Man]

There's many epic FGs but I'd probably say Tekken. It's still very legacy and just the movement alone takes you around 6 months to get consistent with, and about a year to master, and that's just the movement. If you can't move properly nothing else matters in the game lol. KOF I'd say is second, as they're the main game that has kept high levels of execution for their BnBs. Leona was one of my 3 mains for my team (Athena/Leona/Whip) and the execution it takes to play Leona is more difficult than anything in other modern fighting games.

Most other games I feel have lowered the bar, so it's a lot easier to learn games now than it was in the Tekken 6, SF4, GG Rev, etc type of games.

NRS games like MK and Injustice I'd say are the easiest. Fun, but pretty easy to play/pickup for anyone with FG vet experience.

Appreciate the insight.

Does that difference in depth translate at pro level of play across games/franchises?

Clearer asked, would above-average players of either franchise have equal difficulty playing against pro players (MK player versus Scar, e.g.) or would MK pros dropping rounds or even a full-blown set be likelier than Tekken pros owing to shallower MK skill depth? Are the skill gaps between pro and above-average play equal between franchises despite one being deeper than the other, in other words.

 

[MMAisGod]

Appreciate the insight.

Does that difference in depth translate at pro level of play across games/franchises?

Clearer asked, would above-average players of either franchise have equal difficulty playing against pro players (MK player versus Scar, e.g.) or would MK pros dropping rounds or even a full-blown set be likelier than Tekken pros owing to shallower MK skill depth? Are the skill gaps between pro and above-average play equal between franchises despite one being deeper than the other, in other words.

I think the skill gap between pros and say intermediate players is highest in Tekken too. Not only are the pros movement on a level that takes a year(s) just to master, but knowledge of the frame data and animation of 50 characters with 100 moves is second to none. Tekken has tons of ranks, but Blue ranks to Omega is where it's really competitive (consistent Korean backlash, wall carry unreactable oki setups, potential 2 touch games, etc). But if you look at the data there's barely anyone in these ranks because it's so much harder. I got blue and King rank but never could get Omega. It's murderous ranking. It feels like you can be a really strong player yet Omega players will make you look like a 4th Dan sometimes lol.

MK in reverse is the easiest. There isn't much to remember, a lot of the gameplay is streamlined so if you have legacy FG skills you are automatically intermediate by playing it seriously. A lot of "game helps you win" built in to the Mechanics. I won an MK11 tournament that had a couple of strong players in it. I almost beat Honeybee losing 1-2 at one point. That's not happening in SF or Tekken without putting in the real work lol.

SF is more accessible than it used to be, but is still a gap above games like MK and GGST I'd say. With Tekken the biggest gap and KOF the second biggest.

Also there's another part to it. I think games like SF and Tekken have better FG players. Sometimes much better. The skill level you see from above intermediate level Tekken and SF players is higher than some higher level MK or GGST players. It's a whole separate rant in itself, but it's largely why you see Tekken and SF players crossover to win in games like MK or GGST for short burst before returning to their game, but there's very little crossover with MK players being strong in Tekken or SF. So it becomes easier for mid level players to win in games like MK against higher level players because the player skill gap is also smaller.

 

[OnionKnight86]

anyone get into Tekken 8 Beta?

 

[Gingerdead Man]

I think the skill gap between pros and say intermediate players is highest in Tekken too. Not only are the pros movement on a level that takes a year(s) just to master, but knowledge of the frame data and animation of 50 characters with 100 moves is second to none. Tekken has tons of ranks, but Blue ranks to Omega is where it's really competitive (consistent Korean backlash, wall carry unreactable oki setups, potential 2 touch games, etc). But if you look at the data there's barely anyone in these ranks because it's so much harder. I got blue and King rank but never could get Omega. It's murderous ranking. It feels like you can be a really strong player yet Omega players will make you look like a 4th Dan sometimes lol.

MK in reverse is the easiest. There isn't much to remember, a lot of the gameplay is streamlined so if you have legacy FG skills you are automatically intermediate by playing it seriously. A lot of "game helps you win" built in to the Mechanics. I won an MK11 tournament that had a couple of strong players in it. I almost beat Honeybee losing 1-2 at one point. That's not happening in SF or Tekken without putting in the real work lol.

SF is more accessible than it used to be, but is still a gap above games like MK and GGST I'd say. With Tekken the biggest gap and KOF the second biggest.

Also there's another part to it. I think games like SF and Tekken have better FG players. Sometimes much better. The skill level you see from above intermediate level Tekken and SF players is higher than some higher level MK or GGST players. It's a whole separate rant in itself, but it's largely why you see Tekken and SF players crossover to win in games like MK or GGST for short burst before returning to their game, but there's very little crossover with MK players being strong in Tekken or SF. So it becomes easier for mid level players to win in games like MK against higher level players because the player skill gap is also smaller.

Quality read. Thanks again, bud.

 

[what-wut]

I uninstalled the game fucking crapcom with the noob catering shite again (Dr cancels on whiff after new update). The footsies part of the game was what made me tolerate the op offense. This is a huge nerf for Gief and really sucks the fun out of the game for me.

If they change the Dr cancelling on whiff update or adjust it somehow for gief someone please DM me.

 

[OnionKnight86]

 

[Crimson Fury]

Drive Gauge
• Fixed an issue where Zangief's Drive Gauge would recover slower than other characters when in Burnout.

Good.

 

[MMAisGod]

anyone get into Tekken 8 Beta?

I wish. But it's on PC next week, so let's see if we can, get in, to the beta.

I uninstalled the game fucking crapcom with the noob catering shite again (Dr cancels on whiff after new update). The footsies part of the game was what made me tolerate the op offense. This is a huge nerf for Gief and really sucks the fun out of the game for me.

If they change the Dr cancelling on whiff update or adjust it somehow for gief someone please DM me.

My bud who plays Gief said almost the same thing. That it basically adds another layer stack that Gief has to deal with more than others, and he also dabbles in Manon but who also isn't benefitting, so said he's thinking of switching characters or taking a break. Said almost word for word "I'm not playing if I can make Luke whiff Cr MK only for him to cancel the whiff and get in free pressure anyway" lol. Dunno what they were thinking with this whiff cancel garbage. When you're stacked with meter or the round is close it's gonna be beyond braindead for the already strong characters with superior DR.

 

[what-wut]

I wish. But it's on PC next week, so let's see if we can, get in, to the beta.



My bud who plays Gief said almost the same thing. That it basically adds another layer stack that Gief has to deal with more than others, and he also dabbles in Manon but who also isn't benefitting, so said he's thinking of switching characters or taking a break. Said almost word for word "I'm not playing if I can make Luke whiff Cr MK only for him to cancel the whiff and get in free pressure anyway" lol. Dunno what they were thinking with this whiff cancel garbage. When you're stacked with meter or the round is close it's gonna be beyond braindead for the already strong characters with superior DR.

It's a lazy excuse for them not to adjust the frame data on individual characters because apparently some of the top tier had op stuff because of it.

But if you hear of any changes to the system or to Gief in general be sure to let me know bro, if I think he's as good as before I'll reinstall the game. I only like playing with him so I've no interest in switching characters.

 

[Crimson Fury]

I uninstalled the game fucking crapcom with the noob catering shite again (Dr cancels on whiff after new update). The footsies part of the game was what made me tolerate the op offense. This is a huge nerf for Gief and really sucks the fun out of the game for me.

If they change the Dr cancelling on whiff update or adjust it somehow for gief someone please DM me.

I've read that this is Tokido's fault. Apparently at some event, he was whiffing LP and buffering f,f in front of a Cammy and as soon as it connected, he immediately canceled into DR.

 

[MMAisGod]

I've read that this is Tokido's fault. Apparently at some event, he was whiffing LP and buffering f,f in front of a Cammy and as soon as it connected, he immediately canceled into DR.

Yea I heard that too, at one of the Capcom events.

 

[MMAisGod]

Lolz

 

[Crimson Fury]

Lol, wow. I don't even play Granblue, but wow.