Fedor Throwback

Miokink026 said:
You responded to every point I made? Okay, did you even mention 12:20, the main example my point was based on, ONCE? If you can find even one instance of you mentioning 12:20, I will instantly apologize.

Oh yeah, what's more, this was my main point:

Now, Fedor's reaction time and speed both exceeds Ngannou's. However, as I've said, Ngannou's a counterstriker with a very good sense for timing. He also happens to be a terrifying knockout artist standing 6'4 with an 84 inch reach. If he leads, Fedor will defend just fine but the fact is he doesn't lead, and Fedor's preferred method of closing the distance is terrible against the hulking counterstriker with huge power and an insane reach advantage. In a nutshell, Fedor's weaknesses are Ngannou's strengths.​

You've never responded to these points either. I didn't want to insult you seeing as you were actually able to give me a good discussion so I changed the pace of this discussion to one point at a time but you just HAVE to bring this up huh? I discreetly copy pasted every time you didn't respond and didn't call you out but fine, let's get back to this one and let's actually discuss.
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I didnt say I responded to "every" point you made but why should I have to? I responded to several of them which were obviously wrong, claiming Crocop wasnt a counter fighter espeically to me thats just so clearly and obviously wrong that honestly I think it kills your credibility stone dead. I also responded to a peice of specific analysis in the Fedor/Mirko fight which is also very obviously wrong, claiming a punch wasnt slipped when it clearly was and claiming Mirko had thea clear opening to counter at a point were he clearly didnt.

You basically just ignored my responses and switched over to a new arguement which really I would say is pretty standard for the kind of non credable posting on Sherdog that trys to win arguments simply by persistence and placing all the emphasis on the other person to respond. "wait you didnt respond to the 345th wrong claim I made, that means I'm correct! doesnt matter that I was prooven wrong 344 times or that I didnt respond to your points".
 
moreorless87 said:
I didnt say I responded to "every" point you made but why should I have to? I responded to several of them which were obviously wrong, claiming Crocop wasnt a counter fighter espeically to me thats just so clearly and obviously wrong that honestly I think it kills your credibility stone dead. I also responded to a peice of specific analysis in the Fedor/Mirko fight which is also very obviously wrong, claiming a punch wasnt slipped when it clearly was and claiming Mirko had thea clear opening to counter at a point were he clearly didnt.

You basically just ignored my responses and switched over to a new arguement which really I would say is pretty standard for the kind of non credable posting on Sherdog that trys to win arguments simply by persistence and placing all the emphasis on the other person to respond. "wait you didnt respond to the 345th wrong claim I made, that means I'm correct! doesnt matter that I was prooven wrong 344 times or that I didnt respond to your points".
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Of course you don't have to respond to everything but seeing as those two are literally my main example and main point and I discreetly (for your benefit) stated them over and over only for you to ignore them over and over, I think it really means your inability to refute them led to your deciding to not even respond.

Look kid, I've seen your little tactic at work many times. In your next response you will either a) respond to THIS comment but only the parts that said you don't respond to anything (thus proving my point) or b) insult me then end with a variation of "i'm done, bye" or c) a combination of both. I guarantee you won't actually respond to these points yet again. Even still, I'll make it easy for you and copy paste them, yet again.
  • Now, Fedor's reaction time and speed both exceeds Ngannou's. However, as I've said, Ngannou's a counterstriker with a very good sense for timing. He also happens to be a terrifying knockout artist standing 6'4 with an 84 inch reach. If he leads, Fedor will defend just fine but the fact is he doesn't lead, and Fedor's preferred method of closing the distance is terrible against the hulking counterstriker with huge power and an insane reach advantage. In a nutshell, Fedor's weaknesses are Ngannou's strengths. (FORTH TIME I COPY PASTED THIS)
  • 12:20 Fedor once again goes for his blitz but Cro Cop was ready for it and rather than remain stationary and try to meet Fedor or defend it, he simply skipped back and Fedor stumbled over his own feet due to the momentum. this is where my point comes into play. At times, Fedor's blitzes are wild. If his opponent doesn't meet him, he usually finds himself off balance. His distance management with those blitzes aren't always perfect either. (THIRD TIME)
 
War Fedor.

Never Stay from the WAY.
 
moreorless87 said:
I didnt say I responded to "every" point you made but why should I have to? I responded to several of them which were obviously wrong, claiming Crocop wasnt a counter fighter espeically to me thats just so clearly and obviously wrong that honestly I think it kills your credibility stone dead. I also responded to a peice of specific analysis in the Fedor/Mirko fight which is also very obviously wrong, claiming a punch wasnt slipped when it clearly was and claiming Mirko had thea clear opening to counter at a point were he clearly didnt.

You basically just ignored my responses and switched over to a new arguement which really I would say is pretty standard for the kind of non credable posting on Sherdog that trys to win arguments simply by persistence and placing all the emphasis on the other person to respond. "wait you didnt respond to the 345th wrong claim I made, that means I'm correct! doesnt matter that I was prooven wrong 344 times or that I didnt respond to your points".
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Here kiddo, just in case you forgot what happened a mere two pages ago, this is my original comment you replied to. I highlighted the main example and main point. If you want, I can also copy paste all your responses and highlight where you refuted them but we both know that'll be a futile effort ; )

This is Fedor vs Cro Cop the full fight. Now, let's study just a few sequences.​

11:57 Fedor lunges in with the first punch of the fight. Notice he waited until Cro Cop's back was to the ropes to throw that casting punch he so favors. It whiffed terribly but he managed to clinch up.​

11:13 Cro Cop threw a kick that Fedor masterfully blocked just right. No wasted movement. This type of reaction time is very impressive but it won't matter in this particular fantasy matchup and here's why.​

12:20 Fedor once again goes for his blitz but Cro Cop was ready for it and rather than remain stationary and try to meet Fedor or defend it, he simply skipped back and Fedor stumbled over his own feet due to the momentum. this is where my point comes into play. At times, Fedor's blitzes are wild. If his opponent doesn't meet him, he usually finds himself off balance. His distance management with those blitzes aren't always perfect either.​

Before this video's 20 minute mark he does his wild blitz again at 13:25 and 14:28.​

Now, Fedor's reaction time and speed both exceeds Ngannou's. However, as I've said, Ngannou's a counterstriker with a very good sense for timing. He also happens to be a terrifying knockout artist standing 6'4 with an 84 inch reach. If he leads, Fedor will defend just fine but the fact is he doesn't lead, and Fedor's preferred method of closing the distance is terrible against the hulking counterstriker with huge power and an insane reach advantage. In a nutshell, Fedor's weaknesses are Ngannou's strengths.​
 
Miokink026 said:
Of course you don't have to respond to everything but seeing as those two are literally my main example and main point and I discreetly (for your benefit) stated them over and over only for you to ignore them over and over, I think it really means your inability to refute them led to your deciding to not even respond.

Look kid, I've seen your little tactic at work many times. In your next response you will either a) respond to THIS comment but only the parts that said you don't respond to anything (thus proving my point) or b) insult me then end with a variation of "i'm done, bye" or c) a combination of both. I guarantee you won't actually respond to these points yet again. Even still, I'll make it easy for you and copy paste them, yet again.
  • Now, Fedor's reaction time and speed both exceeds Ngannou's. However, as I've said, Ngannou's a counterstriker with a very good sense for timing. He also happens to be a terrifying knockout artist standing 6'4 with an 84 inch reach. If he leads, Fedor will defend just fine but the fact is he doesn't lead, and Fedor's preferred method of closing the distance is terrible against the hulking counterstriker with huge power and an insane reach advantage. In a nutshell, Fedor's weaknesses are Ngannou's strengths. (FORTH TIME I COPY PASTED THIS)
  • 12:20 Fedor once again goes for his blitz but Cro Cop was ready for it and rather than remain stationary and try to meet Fedor or defend it, he simply skipped back and Fedor stumbled over his own feet due to the momentum. this is where my point comes into play. At times, Fedor's blitzes are wild. If his opponent doesn't meet him, he usually finds himself off balance. His distance management with those blitzes aren't always perfect either. (THIRD TIME)
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You went into depth looking at a Fedor fight against Crocop, you highlighted moments of that fight, I highlighted that your analysis of those moments was incorrect, IMHO pretty fundamentally incorrect and said why I thought so. Something like claiming that punch wasnt slipped to me thats not subjective or debateble its just obvious it was, claiming otherwise really damages your credibility not to mention claiming Crocop wasnt a counter striker which is honestly pretty mystifying.

I did actually comment several times on your other points as well, highlighting that I think you use the world "blitz" in a questionable fashion when really its just aggressive forward movement not some long sequence of attacks I'd associate with that term.

I also mentioned that I think you place far too much more importance on being "off balance" as a negative. As I said often it is actually a defencive measure not to be upright making for a much harder target but it also depends on the situation and how vunerable you might be. If your timing those situations well then the potential for an opponent to exploit them is going to be greatly diminished, they'll be in no position to respond to them and often you'll tend up in the clinch with them. Again as I said I think the upright stance and "clean" technique can be greatly over rated in MMA today, someone like Stipe for example is MUCH more hittable than a prime Fedor was.

As I also highlighted you can point to many other examples of Mirko counting aggressive fighters, Wanderlei, Aleks, Herring, etc that he wasnt able to do the same to Fedor is I think the best evidence you can have that actually Fedor striking was more technical and wasnt merely wild aggression. Likewise the difference between Nogs fight with Sergei and with Fedor the third time I think also provides a good example of strong technique, thats not opinion thats pointing out that in these fights these previous very sucessful strikers were much less sucessful against Fedor.

I did say of course that I think Francis would be a threat to Fedor, probably one of the bigger ones of any HW in the sports history but that I didnt think that was the same as saying Francis was actually close to the best HW's in the sports history. Really I see his threat as the threat of an upset fighter, a powerful aggerssive puncher who you could never count out of any fight.

Reffering to someone as "Kiddo" when you've been a member for what a week? unless of course you've been banned several times previously? I wouldnt be surprised if we'd had pretty much the same conservation previously.
 
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icemun said:
He uses his relatively smaller mass as a speed advantage of large, nonathletic plodding HWs

Dan was 204lbs in this fight and 40 years old here-

View attachment 874393



Imagine if Fedor was fighting young fast MW's he would have been destroyed.

He fought it the perfect weight class for the time.
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Dan was 207lbs and on PEDs. As soon as Dan got off of them he started looking his age.

Fedor had also just dropped Dan and had eaten all of his punches with no problem until he got too wild and got hit with one from behind he didn't see coming. Fedor fought pretty sloppy in that fight, but it was during that period where he was fighting sloppy.
 
Fioretti said:
Nobodybringsafellathesizeofyouunlesstheytryintosaysumthinwithouttalkin. Right, bai?



You must be new. Seconds, sahn.
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Whydafuckiwannabuyacaravanthatgotnofookinwheels?
 
moreorless87 said:
You went into depth looking at a Fedor fight against Crocop, you highlighted moments of that fight, I highlighted that your analysis of those moments was incorrect, IMHO pretty fundamentally incorrect and said why I thought so. Something like claiming that punch wasnt slipped to me thats not subjective or debateble its just obvious it was, claiming otherwise really damages your credibility not to mention claiming Crocop wasnt a counter striker which is honestly pretty mystifying.

I did actually comment several times on your other points as well, highlighting that I think you use the world "blitz" in a questionable fashion when really its just aggressive forward movement not some long sequence of attacks I'd associate with that term.

I also mentioned that I think you place far too much more importance on being "off balance" as a negative. As I said often it is actually a defencive measure not to be upright making for a much harder target but it also depends on the situation and how vunerable you might be. If your timing those situations well then the potential for an opponent to exploit them is going to be greatly diminished, they'll be in no position to respond to them and often you'll tend up in the clinch with them. Again as I said I think the upright stance and "clean" technique can be greatly over rated in MMA today, someone like Stipe for example is MUCH more hittable than a prime Fedor was.

As I also highlighted you can point to many other examples of Mirko counting aggressive fighters, Wanderlei, Aleks, Herring, etc that he wasnt able to do the same to Fedor is I think the best evidence you can have that actually Fedor striking was more technical and wasnt merely wild aggression. Likewise the difference between Nogs fight with Sergei and with Fedor the third time I think also provides a good example of strong technique, thats not opinion thats pointing out that in these fights these previous very sucessful strikers were much less sucessful against Fedor.

I did say of course that I think Francis would be a threat to Fedor, probably one of the bigger ones of any HW in the sports history but that I didnt think that was the same as saying Francis was actually close to the best HW's in the sports history. Really I see his threat as the threat of an upset fighter, a powerful aggerssive puncher who you could never count out of any fight.

Reffering to someone as "Kiddo" when you've been a member for what a week? unless of course you've been banned several times previously? I wouldnt be surprised if we'd had pretty much the same conservation previously.
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I highlighted that your analysis of those moments was incorrect
​
Where? I think after driving home what my main example and main point was, even you should know what they are. Where did you even touch upon my main point and main example? Show me the comment where you even mentioned the 12:20 timestamp.

I did actually comment several times on your other points as well, highlighting that I think you use the world "blitz" in a questionable fashion when really its just aggressive forward movement not some long sequence of attacks I'd associate with that term.​

Apples and oranges. I don't care what you call it as long as you respond.

And no, being off balance and stumbling over your own feet IS a big deal. Are you that biased you can't admit that simply because it was Fedor who was off balance? Being off balance at 12:20 is not a good look. It doesn't take analysis to see that, only eyes and common sense. Him being off balance was a definite result of flawed timing and distance management, which was why he stumbled. I mean, nice try, but you're gonna have to be more specific in your reasoning as to why in that main example that I gave, was Fedor's off balance stumbling still considered by you to be "well timed". I mean, it's simple, all you have to do was drag your unwilling eyes to that timestamp and respond accordingly. It's not hard unless you're truly biased. You mention how he'd "end up in the clinch"?

...

Jesus bro, as I've tried over and over to get you to accept that there's a timestamp at 12:20, he DIDN'T end up in the clinch. The damned proof's right there. In fact, I'll quote it AGAIN just for you.

12:20 Fedor once again goes for his blitz but Cro Cop was ready for it and rather than remain stationary and try to meet Fedor or defend it, he simply skipped back and Fedor stumbled over his own feet due to the momentum. this is where my point comes into play. At times, Fedor's blitzes are wild. If his opponent doesn't meet him, he usually finds himself off balance. His distance management with those blitzes aren't always perfect either.

At this point you're starting to look ridiculous my guy. Even Jack Slack who loves Fedor has admitted these blitzes are wild sometimes but, heh, you think you know better and his stumbling was merely a strategic herky jerky dance meant to confuse the opponent or something huh?

I feel like I'm at a WWE event counting out loud. How many times you can actively ignore this one example that's been there from the very beginning? It's literally 50% of my original argument. I mean, you also didn't respond to the other 50%. I'll again put it right..... here. There.

Now, Fedor's reaction time and speed both exceeds Ngannou's. However, as I've said, Ngannou's a counterstriker with a very good sense for timing. He also happens to be a terrifying knockout artist standing 6'4 with an 84 inch reach. If he leads, Fedor will defend just fine but the fact is he doesn't lead, and Fedor's preferred method of closing the distance is terrible against the hulking counterstriker with huge power and an insane reach advantage. In a nutshell, Fedor's weaknesses are Ngannou's strengths.
 
CinemaKingdom said:
Dan was 207lbs and on PEDs. As soon as Dan got off of them he started looking his age.

Fedor had also just dropped Dan and had eaten all of his punches with no problem until he got too wild and got hit with one from behind he didn't see coming. Fedor fought pretty sloppy in that fight, but it was during that period where he was fighting sloppy.
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Okay.
He fought for a decade in an organization where PEDs were given to fighters and lost to a 40 year MW
 
I want to see a Fedor vs Maldonaldo rematch.

M8VBDB.gif
 

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icemun said:
Okay.
He fought for a decade in an organization where PEDs were given to fighters and lost to a 40 year MW
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Okay.

First point is totally irrelevant. Second point, Dan was a MW who weighed in at HW and was the LHW champ at the time? You aren't very bright are you? You don't have to answer, it's obvious.
 
CinemaKingdom said:
Okay.

First point is totally irrelevant. Second point, Dan was a MW who weighed in at HW and was the LHW champ at the time? You aren't very bright are you? You don't have to answer, it's obvious.
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First point about Fedor being in an organization where steroids are encouraged and distributed to fighters is entirely relevant if using it to discredit another fighter.

You talk about intelligence and you think someone walking into the cage at 205lbs is a, HW... okay.
 
Fioretti said:
Nobodybringsafellathesizeofyouunlesstheytryintosaysumthinwithouttalkin. Right, bai?



You must be new. Seconds, sahn.
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I'm not new I've been seeing your old, dumbass for years. I remember you telling someone you used to train with some guys in Florida 20 years ago. You're an old, out of shape peasant who never trained.
 
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