Fedor strengths and weaknesses and his skillset in the UFC today (Long Thread)

[TJ177]

Wow Nemkov lost in his 5th professional fight 8 years ago. I guess that means he sucks and Fedor isn't a great coach with a proven fight system.

Winning a title in Bellator or in Combat Sambo world championships/ Russian nationals is a phenomenonal achievement that's absolutely a reflection or your coach and your coaches fight system. The fact that this fight system is producing champions in 2022 is impressive and a reflection of its effectiveness.

As far as downplaying the achievement of becoming a Bellator/ Sambo world/ Russian national champion- well that's expected on the internet. Its a projection of miserable, sherdog couch dweller behavior. Its a reflection of the kind of toxic, hateful , passive aggressive rat that sits behind your screen. I'd love to hear about your training and achievements in combat sports.

Keep going through.

I'm very glad for you and Fedor that he is still successful on the Russian sambo scene. I mostly follow the top levels of MMA (that you've suggested Fedor would still dominate), but the jacketed arts are still a worthwhile pursuit.

I hope that one day he has more than one Bellator champ. And I hope the big fella himself can even pull one against Bader!

 

[The Last King]

I'm very glad for you and Fedor that he is still successful on the Russian sambo scene. I mostly follow the top levels of MMA (that you've suggested Fedor would still dominate), but the jacketed arts are still a worthwhile pursuit.

I hope that one day he has more than one Bellator champ. And I hope the big fella himself can even pull one against Bader!

 

[BFoe]

Again - this is all reasonable stuff and not actually far from where I stand. A couple of things:
1. Arlovski is an interesting case. He's a bit of the living embodiment of evolution, as he's changed his styles so much across camps and coaches. I couldn't actually pinpoint when he was at his best. Resume wise it was the Fedor fight, but that was before he went to Jackson-Wink and ATT and he was still doing things like the jumping knee and backing up against the cage. I couldn't tell you who would win a fight between 2009 AA or 2015 AA.

I personally would say that Arlovski made some needed changes as he aged, to allow him to continue to fight safely (i.e., not get KOed constantly) and win fights provided tne ceiling is not too high. That run towards a TS he put together while at Jackson’s was cool to watch. Big difference though between beating Travis Browne in the middle of a 2-6 skid, Brendan Schaub in his penultimate fight before retiring, the washed version of Bigfoot, etc. Arlovski 2005-2009 or so is far superior to Arlovski on that 2014-2015 run.

2. I differentiate between years training experience and number of fights. Mirko was still actively kickboxing through 2002.

I’m not sure I understand. Cro Cop had more time in MMA than Gane (not by tons, but still). He also had double the mma fights. Cro Cop had more MMA experience than Gane by any measure,

3. I think the belt thing is a bit overrated these days given how embedded it is in the training. Guys aren't chasing belts if they're training full-time. Barnett a good example from the old days. Ngannou tapping out a black belt in the UFC also making the case.

Fighters tend to progress though belts if they’re training full time, I’d say. Cormier was a brown belt st one point, not sure if he ever got his black belt. Izzy is a purple belt or whatever. Barnett is a weird case because he came from a catch wrestling background which focuses on submission grappling anyhow, it’s a totally different background. I don’t know about you, but I found the ground battle in Gane vs Ngannou to be very low level. But yeah, it’s not everything. Some fighters win without it—Stipe, for example. And some (like JDS and Roy Nelson) have black belts and I’ve never seen them do a damn thing with it lol.

Seven



Seven non title fights between Nog 1 and 2


Which of these men was worthy of a fight with world #1?

Valavicius, Fujita, Goodridge, Nagata, Coleman, Randleman, Ogawa


There hasnt been a relevant Japanese fighter above 170 in ages...yet there's 3 on that list


Bush league

Coleman and Randleman certainly were worthy. Velavicius and Nagata didn’t happen in PRIDE, so I don’t think he’d be defending the PRIDE title against them. And he fought Ogawa the very same night that he was defending the title already.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, I think it’s stupid that PRIDE only had sporadic title fights too, but don’t totally misrepresent history here.

 

[MartinGibson86]

I personally would say that Arlovski made some needed changes as he aged, to allow him to continue to fight safely (i.e., not get KOed constantly) and win fights provided tne ceiling is not too high. That run towards a TS he put together while at Jackson’s was cool to watch. Big difference though between beating Travis Browne in the middle of a 2-6 skid, Brendan Schaub in his penultimate fight before retiring, the washed version of Bigfoot, etc. Arlovski 2005-2009 or so is far superior to Arlovski on that 2014-2015 run.
I’m not sure I understand. Cro Cop had more time in MMA than Gane (not by tons, but still). He also had double the mma fights. Cro Cop had more MMA experience than Gane by any measure,

Fighters tend to progress though belts if they’re training full time, I’d say. Cormier was a brown belt st one point, not sure if he ever got his black belt. Izzy is a purple belt or whatever. Barnett is a weird case because he came from a catch wrestling background which focuses on submission grappling anyhow, it’s a totally different background. I don’t know about you, but I found the ground battle in Gane vs Ngannou to be very low level. But yeah, it’s not everything. Some fighters win without it—Stipe, for example. And some (like JDS and Roy Nelson) have black belts and I’ve never seen them do a damn thing with it lol.

Coleman and Randleman certainly were worthy. Velavicius and Nagata didn’t happen in PRIDE, so I don’t think he’d be defending the PRIDE title against them. And he fought Ogawa the very same night that he was defending the title already.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, I think it’s stupid that PRIDE only had sporadic title fights too, but don’t totally misrepresent history here.

Cool.


So while the worlds number one he fought nagata and goodridge (within pride lol) before his first "lefit" win


glad we're in agreement



Nagata never won a fight

 

[Shabal]

Fedor king of biggest weight means king of all fights. Hail to the king!

 

[mjfan23]

I just looked up Fedors record, guy is on a nice run. Won more fights in the last few years than dc and stipe combined (which is even worse considering they fought each other three times so at least three guaranteed wins) Not bad for a guy who peaked nearly 15-17 years ago.

Of course that Francis and maybe Gane guy with about a whole 2 dozen wins (and four defeats) between them are far better than a guy who went on the longest hw reign of alltime.

 

[BFoe]

Nonsense...and Coleman and Randleman were fights




Cool.


So while the worlds number one he fought nagata and goodridge (within pride lol) before his first "lefit" win


glad we're in agreement



Nagata never won a fight

Again, Nagata did not happen in PRIDE.
And “legit” is a different standard than being ranked for a title shot. Fujita and Goodrige were both “legit.” Every fight Fedor had in PRIDE between Nog 1 and Nog 2 was against a legit/good opponent.

 

[mjfan23]

Again, Nagata did not happen in PRIDE.
And “legit” is a different standard than being ranked for a title shot. Fujita and Goodrige were both “legit.” Every fight Fedor had in PRIDE between Nog 1 and Nog 2 was against a legit/good opponent.

What’s a legit fight?

So called Japanese can types that Fedors accused of beating were subbing ufc goat (and in his absolute prime) android Silva via flying shit!!

You are arguing with an mma noob. He has unsuccessfully throughout his tenure at sherdog tried to somehow convince people that Fedor isn’t the best HW of all time. Thread after thread, poll after poll he fails.

 

[The Last King]

The shills of Sherdog work overtime to make toxic posts to diminish Fedor while actual all time greats of this sport say he's the GOAT.

Imagine that.

 

[TJ177]

I personally would say that Arlovski made some needed changes as he aged, to allow him to continue to fight safely (i.e., not get KOed constantly) and win fights provided tne ceiling is not too high. That run towards a TS he put together while at Jackson’s was cool to watch. Big difference though between beating Travis Browne in the middle of a 2-6 skid, Brendan Schaub in his penultimate fight before retiring, the washed version of Bigfoot, etc. Arlovski 2005-2009 or so is far superior to Arlovski on that 2014-2015 run.
I’m not sure I understand. Cro Cop had more time in MMA than Gane (not by tons, but still). He also had double the mma fights. Cro Cop had more MMA experience than Gane by any measure,

Fighters tend to progress though belts if they’re training full time, I’d say. Cormier was a brown belt st one point, not sure if he ever got his black belt. Izzy is a purple belt or whatever. Barnett is a weird case because he came from a catch wrestling background which focuses on submission grappling anyhow, it’s a totally different background. I don’t know about you, but I found the ground battle in Gane vs Ngannou to be very low level. But yeah, it’s not everything. Some fighters win without it—Stipe, for example. And some (like JDS and Roy Nelson) have black belts and I’ve never seen them do a damn thing with it lol..

I honestly couldn't tell you what the best Arlovski was. He obviously looked great leading up to the Fedor fight and the beginning of that fight, but the early AA always seemed so confidence driven. When he didn't trust his hands and backed up he'd get plastered. The run after the Fedor fight barely looked like the same guy. He was shook, granted, but I also think he needed coaches to better gameplan to his strengths.

On Gane/Crocop - the time elapsed from their first fight to their title fight is close to the same. No one ever really thought of CC as green, but the perception is there of Gane. CC had way more fights but I don't necessarily consider that a huge edge experience-wise if Gane was hustling in the gym every day too. (Note I'm just purely talking about experience here)

Some guys still get belts but it doesn't feel like the same equalizer that it once did. Especially given that some guys had next to no BJJ skills whatsoever in the early days or actively prided themselves on the tribal idea of their discipline (wrestling, kickboxing) being superior. To be fair, the same could be said of wrestling, which is very near and dear to my heart. Any MMA fighter is going to have years of wrestling experience, so we've seen that being an an NCAA AA doesn't have the same utility any more.

Ngannou-Gane was low level on the ground, absolutely. But I do grade it on a scale. These are absolutely massive men who were pretty deep into a fight. I'm not expecting it to look like no-gi ADCC.

 

[ermac88]

Oh I see you looked up the definition of fact and opinion since now you're changing what you said.

On multiple occasions you stated "ass handed to him", doesn't "do well" in sanctioned fights.

Now that you've conceded that those are opinions you've made some progress towards having coherent thoughts.

Congrats

Maybe now you can look up the definition of bullshit too since you keep making false statements

The hell are you rambling about?

You said Fedor losing to Werdum Bigfoot and Henderson were 'opinion'.

 

[MartinGibson86]

Again, Nagata did not happen in PRIDE.
And “legit” is a different standard than being ranked for a title shot. Fujita and Goodrige were both “legit.” Every fight Fedor had in PRIDE between Nog 1 and Nog 2 was against a legit/good opponent.

Delusional

Goodridge is nowhere near alegit win for a GOAT candidate...



Pride or no...He foyght Nagata...mwhile the world number one

 

[The Last King]

Delusional

Goodridge is nowhere near alegit win for a GOAT candidate...



Pride or no...He foyght Nagata...mwhile the world number one

Fedor fought 5 times in 2003. He fought Goodridge 8 weeks after he fought Fujita where he suffered a concussion. He fought Nagata in his 5th fight of the year, 3 months after beating Goodridge and breaking his hand on Goodridge's skull. Fedor fought 23 times from 2000-2004. That's more fights than Ngannou will have in his whole career.

Show me one HW today who fights 5x a year. The landscape was different in those days and so was the schedule structure. I wouldn't give a shit it Ngannou crushed 2 cans per year if he fought 5x a year.

Your pathetic desperation and ridiculous shilling are evident. You have been a great punching bag and any reasonable person reading this thread can see how badly you have been slapped up with facts and logic.

Cheers

 

[Midget Boxer]

Delusional

Goodridge is nowhere near alegit win for a GOAT candidate...



Pride or no...He foyght Nagata...mwhile the world number one

You keep getting beat like a red headed step child

 

[MartinGibson86]

You keep getting beat like a red headed step child

...still more competitive than a winless Japanese can...



and you guys aren't even GOAT candidates

 

[Fioretti]

Yes, when you become the world champion and win 18 consecutive fights, each fight is a title defense because your reputation as the best fighter in the world is on the line in each one of those fights. There's nothing a couch dwelling shill can say or do to change this.

The number is 3, sweet girl. Your fantasies can't change this. You'll never get that D. Wah wah.

 

[The Last King]

The number is 3, sweet girl. Your fantasies can't change this. You'll never get that D. Wah wah.

18 title defenses. Theres nothing any shill can say or do to change this. Deal with it.

 

[Kaiserjuan]

I used to love Fedor back then. But I must admit he was probably not facing the best competition.
He was doing just gr8 until he went on a 3 fight losing streak in strikeforce vs fighters we can relate to in the UFC

Got subbed by werdum, one of the best HWs out there
Got dominated and stopped by Bigfoot, who when on roids was decent but not great (DC beat him easily in that same tournament)
Got flash KOd by Henderson...I'm one of the few that calls an early stoppage on that one; nonetheless he got his ass kicked and Hendo is basically a MW

Fedor definitely had skill and power, but I think he was not facing the best competition...or at least not the competition he would be facing now at HW, which would
compare to an extent to the one he faced when his supposed "decline" started, first and foremost Werdum. He was basically 34 when he lost to fabricio and was doing
well, although he had struggled a little in his last few fights (Rogers and Arlovski, even though he got the finish)

At the end of the day I would say he's amongst the best if not the best of the old generation.
But if you put him there with guys like Ngannou, Miocic, DC, Cain, primeJDS etc he gets wrecked...

 

[Fioretti]

18 title defenses. Theres nothing any shill can say or do to change this. Deal with it.

I mean, it's 3, girl. One of them against 5-2 Hunt coming off a loss. Facts. Cope.

 

[BFoe]

Delusional

Goodridge is nowhere near alegit win for a GOAT candidate...



Pride or no...He foyght Nagata...mwhile the world number one

Delusional? This shit happens in MMA all the time. Did you see Wonderboy’s comments yesterday claiming that Usman won’t be able to fight Edwards, and the UFC is considering Masvidal as a replacement? We’ll see if that shit actually happens, but Masvidal is #11 right now, which is right about where Goodrige was in the summer of 2003. Masvidal isn’t a legit title challenger, but he’s a legit opponent. At the time Goodridge fought Fedor, Goodridge was
4-0-1 in his last 5, and 7-1-1 in his previous 8 fights with the lone loss being to Nog. It was lower level comp he was beating though, but Goodridge was certainly legit.

The reason for fighting Nagata was simple: Fedor was offered more money. PRIDE wanted Fedor to fight NYE, but Inoki offered Fedor a bigger fight purse to fight Nagata. We have MMA fighters trying to fight fucking YouTubers and Disney channel stars and whatever dumb shit for bigger fight purses right now—the only reason Silva or Woodley didn’t do it when they were champs is because they couldn’t. But Fedor had more freedom in his contract than UFC fighters do now. So if he got a better offer, or if PRIDE wasn’t going to book him for a few months, he could go fight in RINGS, or Inoki-Bom-Ba-Ye, or whatever.
Ngannou is UFC HW champ, and he’s been trying to get out of his UFC contract for ages so he can do something for a bigger purse.

It adds nothing to Fedor’s legacy to beat Nagata obviously, but it doesn’t detract from it either imo. It’s a non-factor.