Fedor ducking Alistair Overeem debunked with nothing but cold hard facts

[Claude]

This is should not be a Fedor vs Overeem affair, it should be an impartial discussion about why that fight didn't happen.

I'll tell you why it didn't happen:

Overeem declined to fight Fedor.

And that isn't debatable, that is a fact.

 

[moreorless87]

It's not about who Coker is closer to. It's about the fact that they were essentially business partners. To expect him to go out and say things that would imply he's ducking Reem would ruin that relationship. No one knows if Fedor was ducking Reem or not except for Fedor and anyone else involved in the negotiations. We can never know and will never know all we can do is speculate. You want to believe he didn't duck Reem? That's fine. I don't know or really care to much to begin with. My whole point was it's silly to use Coker as a source for anything when discussing this topic.

My point is tha whilst we can't treat him with absolute cerainy your wrong, Coker does have credibility, both in terms of his general honesty and in his position since that's not connected to Fedor or M-1 whilst he still states the same thing. Even if the situation had happened Coker would not have needed to criticize Fedor for "ducking" Overeem, he could easily for example have said that Fedor's camp felt that Werdum was more deserving of the match(which honestly wouldn't have been an unreasonable position for them to take although no sign they did).

This subject does not come up independently, it comes up in response to criticism of Fedor every time Overeem claims he ducked him, if you want to be negative be negative of people willing to engage in that kind of thing.

Ironically really I do think theres a good case that Overeem might have been a better matchup for Fedor than Werdum by 2010. Werdum has always tended to be someone you need to deal with carefully but latter era Fedor had become much more of a blitzer after having faced a lot of opponents in the previous 2-3 years who tended to be more vulnerable to it. Overeem on the other hand was someone much more vulnerable to that kind of opponent and Fedor looking to knock his head into the 10th row in the 1st might well have been successful.

 

[jayo2k]

Like #2 Arlovski?

4 fight losing streak... Got better?

 

[sadclown]

That championship reign is based on beating the most solid guys your division has to offer, and Overeem has beaten better competition and held 3 championship belts, and he's one of two guys to hold a kickboxing title and an MMA title at the same time.

U are correct.

Reem won sSrikeforce belt beating Paul Buentellor and defending against Bret Rogers and Todd Duffee.

He won dream belt beating Tae hyun lee, Mark Hunt and James Thompson.

Thank you for supporting my point the Reem never had a dominant championship reign, and therefore doesn't fit the Goat talk yet

 

[Bubblun]

I'll tell you why it didn't happen:

Overeem declined to fight Fedor.

And that isn't debatable, that is a fact.

Wrong.

When Overeem defeated Rogers Fedor was already scheduled to fight Werdum and after Fedor lost Overeem didn't want to fight him.

See?

100% of the people saying Fedor ducked Overeem are ignorants on the subject.

“His management declined for him to fight me tonight,” Overeem said. “Respect for Brett, ’cause he stood up and wanted to fight me like a man. I think now it’s Fedor’s time.”
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Ov...ers-Calls-Out-Fedor-24517#QFkY46KF8fWY6KPU.99

The Strikeforce champ defending his belt against Rogers, a guy that just lost against Fedor, instead of Fedor himself, makes sense.
And these two guys were the baddest men on the planet, nobody wanted to see the Werdum fight.

Your history isnt exactly correct. When Fedor was at his peak there were not many people that actually wanted to fight him. He was supposed to fight CC, CC pulls out saying hes "injured", yet then takes a different fight. Josh Barnett, same thing, says hes not ready to fight then takes a fight against Nog while Fedor fights Hunt with a broken toe. Couture goes looking for Fedor, sees him destroy Sylvia and suddenly isnt interested anymore despite being offered $3 mill for the fight.

Yeah buddy, believe what you want, but i been a fans all these years and there was definitely a talk about Fedor subpar oppositions.

Everybody wanted a chance to fight him, Barnett was scheduled to fight in Affliction, everybody knows that, Randy quitted the UFC and burnt a lot of bridges just to get the opportunity to fight Fedor, and you think he ducked him at the last minute, ridiculous.
Actually Randy said that that the problems were on Fedor side, how unusual.
Oh, and Tim Sylvia is another guy that burnt bridges with the UFC just to fight Fedor, don't forget that.

 

[SamboPunch]

They both were wishy washy about it. First Overeem wants Fedor for a title fight, but Fedor didnt want to fight him right away. Then Fedor fought Werdum, lost and then wanted to fight Overeem all of a sudden to make up for it. Overeem said "too bad, I'm doing K-1" and then at some point in between those things Fedor's camp accused Overeem of using roids which is why they wanted to avoid fighting him. After all was said and done they completely took that back and called him a "competitor" and whatnot, hyping him up for a potential match.

They're both being ducky mckducks but likes the rumor goes, I think Fedor didnt handle his own decisions very much and it was more of his management protecting him than anything.

 

[Bubblun]

My point is tha whilst we can't treat him with absolute cerainy your wrong, Coker does have credibility, both in terms of his general honesty and in his position since that's not connected to Fedor or M-1 whilst he still states the same thing. Even if the situation had happened Coker would not have needed to criticize Fedor for "ducking" Overeem, he could easily for example have said that Fedor's camp felt that Werdum was more deserving of the match(which honestly wouldn't have been an unreasonable position for them to take although no sign they did).

This subject does not come up independently, it comes up in response to criticism of Fedor every time Overeem claims he ducked him, if you want to be negative be negative of people willing to engage in that kind of thing.

Ironically really I do think theres a good case that Overeem might have been a better matchup for Fedor than Werdum by 2010. Werdum has always tended to be someone you need to deal with carefully but latter era Fedor had become much more of a blitzer after having faced a lot of opponents in the previous 2-3 years who tended to be more vulnerable to it. Overeem on the other hand was someone much more vulnerable to that kind of opponent and Fedor looking to knock his head into the 10th row in the 1st might well have been successful.

Dude you are making the story more complicate than it was.

Overeem was the Strikeforce champ and had a lot of momentum at that time.
He also said he wanted to fight for at least early 2009, you can check the interviews at the time, in every interview he said he wanted to fight Fedor.

WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS FOR 2009?
I would like to be DREAM HW champ this year. If I'll have to fight Cro Cop for that title even better for me. Other then for a title fight I have no interest fighting him. I would also want to fight Fedor for some belt.
http://www.fansofk1.com/article?aID=2017

Said the the organization don't matter, Dream or Strikeforce are fine.
Both Dream president and Coker wanted it, the fans wanted it.


A heavyweight bout between Fedor Emelianenko and Alistair Overeem is increasingly looking like it will be one of the big MMA fights of 2010. The question is whether it will happen in the United States in the Strikeforce cage, or in Japan in the Dream ring -- and Dream Event Producer Keiichi Sasahara says he's hoping to get the deal done in his promotion.

Overeem, the Strikeforce heavyweight champion, called out Fedor on Sunday and said he'd be willing to fight him in either Dream or Strikeforce, but would prefer Dream. When Sasahara was told about Overeem's desire to fight Fedor, he said he was excited about the possibility of it.

"That would be great," Sasahara said. "That's a fight I really want to see. ... It's not an easy fight to get together but it's a fight I would like to see. I'll do what I can to make it happen in the near future."

Both Overeem and Fedor have other items on their to-do lists before they can fight each other: Fedor is fighting Brett Rogers in the Strikeforce/M-1 Global show on CBS November 7, and Overeem is fighting in the K-1 World Grand Prix Final December 5. But Overeem says he'll be ready to fight Fedor in April of 2010, and Fedor, assuming all goes well against Rogers, is likely to fight again in the spring. So Overeem-Fedor is a fight that would make a lot of sense in the next six months.

But would it happen in Dream or Strikeforce? The two promotions have a partnership, and both are open to co-promoting with Fedor's promotion, M-1 Global, so determining a venue for the fight won't be a battle among competing promotions so much as it will be a group of business partners deciding where they can make the most money.

I still think there's more money to be made with this fight in the U.S. than there is in Japan, and I think Strikeforce is more likely to land the bout than Dream is. But that could change in the coming weeks: If Fedor vs. Rogers delivers disappointing TV ratings, and if Overeem does well in the K-1 World Grand Prix, they might decide that there's more of an audience for Overeem vs. Fedor in Japan.

Either way, if all goes well, the fight will happen in the spring of 2010. It should be great.

https://web.archive.org/web/2010011...alistair-overeem-in-dream-promoter-says-he-ho


Overeem vs Rogers and Fedor vs Werdum shouldn't even happened.
Nobody wanted to see those fights.

It doesn't matter if Werdum was a bad matchup in retrospective, Werdum was a UFC reject at the time, nobody wanted to see him fight Fedor.

 

[SamboPunch]

“His management declined for him to fight me tonight,” Overeem said. “Respect for Brett, ’cause he stood up and wanted to fight me like a man. I think now it’s Fedor’s time.”
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Ov...ers-Calls-Out-Fedor-24517#QFkY46KF8fWY6KPU.99

The Strikeforce champ defending his belt against Rogers, a guy that just lost against Fedor, instead of Fedor himself, makes sense.
And these two guys were the baddest men on the planet, nobody wanted to see the Werdum fight.
Yeah buddy, believe what you want, but i been a fans all these years and there was definitely a talk about Fedor subpar oppositions.

Everybody wanted a chance to fight him, Barnett was scheduled to fight in Affliction, everybody knows that, Randy quitted the UFC and burnt a lot of bridges just to get the opportunity to fight Fedor, and you think he ducked him at the last minute, ridiculous.
Actually Randy said that that the problems were on Fedor side, how unusual.
Oh, and Tim Sylvia is another guy that burnt bridges with the UFC just to fight Fedor, don't forget that.

Because they didnt like the way he looked and accused him of being on stuff. They said this so many times before Overeem finally tested for that wacky T/E ratio. Needless to say, I don't think they were all that wrong for not wanting to fight him considering the results of his drug tests. Even how his body deflated says a lot. Maybe had he never tested positive and failed anything you could accuse Fedor of ducking, but the only time he didn't want to fight Overeem was when he was Ubereem. After he lost to Werdum he was open to the fight in every way. Even set up the tournament so he could beat Big Foot and Overeem could beat Kharitonov/Arlovski or whoever it was. That tournament was a murderer's row for anyone who started from the beginning AKA not Cormier.

 

[Bubblun]

Because they didnt like the way he looked and accused him of being on stuff. They said this so many times before Overeem finally tested for that wacky T/E ratio. Needless to say, I don't think they were all that wrong for not wanting to fight him considering the results of his drug tests. Even how his body deflated says a lot. Maybe had he never tested positive and failed anything you could accuse Fedor of ducking, but the only time he didn't want to fight Overeem was when he was Ubereem. After he lost to Werdum he was open to the fight in every way. Even set up the tournament so he could beat Big Foot and Overeem could beat Kharitonov/Arlovski or whoever it was. That tournament was a murderer's row for anyone who started from the beginning AKA not Cormier.

Overeem tested positive for elevated T/E ratio during a press conference for the Junior Dos Santos fight, in the first and only random test by an Athletic Commission, i believe.
Even a blind could see that Overeem was on stuffs, but what happened in Strikeforce had nothing to do with what happened in the UFC.

Overeem was the Strikeforce champ and asked to fight Fedor, who at the time was still undefeated and everybody wanted to see him tested against legit competition.

After Fedor lost to Werdum his value went down and Overeem had to fight Werdum.

 

[Mr Wings]

Fact: Dan Henderson is a middleweight.

Must be a different Dan Henderson. He was talking about the Pride and Strikeforce 205 pound champion Dan Henderson; clearly not a middleweight.

 

[moreorless87]

Dude you are making the story more complicate than it was.

Overeem was the Strikeforce champ and had a lot of momentum at that time.
He also said he wanted to fight for at least early 2009, you can check the interviews at the time, in every interview he said he wanted to fight Fedor.

WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS FOR 2009?
I would like to be DREAM HW champ this year. If I'll have to fight Cro Cop for that title even better for me. Other then for a title fight I have no interest fighting him. I would also want to fight Fedor for some belt.
http://www.fansofk1.com/article?aID=2017

Said the the organization don't matter, Dream or Strikeforce are fine.
Both Dream president and Coker wanted it, the fans wanted it.


A heavyweight bout between Fedor Emelianenko and Alistair Overeem is increasingly looking like it will be one of the big MMA fights of 2010. The question is whether it will happen in the United States in the Strikeforce cage, or in Japan in the Dream ring -- and Dream Event Producer Keiichi Sasahara says he's hoping to get the deal done in his promotion.

Overeem, the Strikeforce heavyweight champion, called out Fedor on Sunday and said he'd be willing to fight him in either Dream or Strikeforce, but would prefer Dream. When Sasahara was told about Overeem's desire to fight Fedor, he said he was excited about the possibility of it.

"That would be great," Sasahara said. "That's a fight I really want to see. ... It's not an easy fight to get together but it's a fight I would like to see. I'll do what I can to make it happen in the near future."

Both Overeem and Fedor have other items on their to-do lists before they can fight each other: Fedor is fighting Brett Rogers in the Strikeforce/M-1 Global show on CBS November 7, and Overeem is fighting in the K-1 World Grand Prix Final December 5. But Overeem says he'll be ready to fight Fedor in April of 2010, and Fedor, assuming all goes well against Rogers, is likely to fight again in the spring. So Overeem-Fedor is a fight that would make a lot of sense in the next six months.

But would it happen in Dream or Strikeforce? The two promotions have a partnership, and both are open to co-promoting with Fedor's promotion, M-1 Global, so determining a venue for the fight won't be a battle among competing promotions so much as it will be a group of business partners deciding where they can make the most money.

I still think there's more money to be made with this fight in the U.S. than there is in Japan, and I think Strikeforce is more likely to land the bout than Dream is. But that could change in the coming weeks: If Fedor vs. Rogers delivers disappointing TV ratings, and if Overeem does well in the K-1 World Grand Prix, they might decide that there's more of an audience for Overeem vs. Fedor in Japan.

Either way, if all goes well, the fight will happen in the spring of 2010. It should be great.

https://web.archive.org/web/2010011...alistair-overeem-in-dream-promoter-says-he-ho

Overeem vs Rogers and Fedor vs Werdum shouldn't even happened.
Nobody wanted to see those fights.

It doesn't matter if Werdum was a bad matchup in retrospective, Werdum was a UFC reject at the time, nobody wanted to see him fight Fedor.

Have I said Overeem didn't want to fight Fedor? I said exactly the reverse but I also said he had arguably more momentum and training in K-1 at that point than he did in MMA and the WGP is obviously by far the biggest event of the year there just as NYE is for MMA in Japan.

The big issue really is what the promoter wanted to do and I think Cokers comments clearly suggest that he viewed Overeem as not having enough momentum in the US market. Werdum definitely had less potential to become a big PPV draw than Overeem but he was better established, Allistair's good form was only really well know to the hardcore fanbase watching K-1 but if he picked up some wins in the US then obviously a fight with Fedor had big potential which I think is what Coker was after.

I would say as well that SF was never based around Fedor the way Affliction was either as you can see by the lack of a Werdum rematch. I think Cokers view at that point was that Fedor was a great source of credibility and if you look at the point the UFC stepped in to buy SF there HW division had really depth not just in talent but hype, Werdum got the boost from Fedor, Overeem got the boost from Werdum and Bigfoot got the boost from Fedor. Thats a division that could have supported an entire org across multiple events not just a couple of big shows a year around one guy.

 

[SamboPunch]

Overeem tested positive for elevated T/E ratio during a press conference for the Junior Dos Santos fight, in the first and only random test by an Athletic Commission, i believe. Even a blind could see that Overeem was on stuffs, but what happened in Strikeforce had nothing to do with what happened in the UFC.

Ugh, I can't even reply in one paragraph because your shit is all over the place. Yes, he tested positive for elevated T/E ratios before his fight in the UFC TRANSITIONING FROM STRIKEFORCE which means that SF is very much related to what happened. So I'm sorry you don't get that? Not much else I can say really if you're going to downright deny reality. I can't believe you're bringing up how Overeem's test was one of the first... what that means I don't even know. Are you trying to tell me you like making excuses for him? I'd like to know what that has to do with anything. Was it just unfair??? awwwww

Overeem was the Strikeforce champ and asked to fight Fedor, who at the time was still undefeated and everybody wanted to see him tested against legit competition.

After Fedor lost to Werdum his value went down and Overeem had to fight Werdum.

Overeem, again and back to my main point that literally can't be disputed, was clearly on something. I can assure you Fedor wasnt the only guy who didnt want to fight him for that reason ( I know for a fact he wasn't the only one at HW, a few other fighters said they don'r blame him), it's just that lots of HW's are probably on the juice as it is and some simply are so big it makes no difference to them who's on what unless it's OBVIOUS. While I agree it was the fans desire to see him fight, it doesnt make sense for Fedor as a fighter who wants to look after his well being. Look at Mark Hunt's bitching, he probably had a feeling Brock was on roids but when he found out he went ape shit and regretted fighting him and evens started threatening to sue people publically.

After Fedor lost to Werdum his value obviously went down, but that had nothing to do with fighting Werdum. Overeem fought Werdum simply because Werdum just beat Fedor and it would have been retarded to have Fedor fight Overeem even though he wanted to.

 

[Bubblun]

My shit is all over the place, whoa.

I am the only one in this thread that is actually trying to link interviews and articles of that time as a reference, basically cold hard facts, while you are just speculating, kinda, shoulda, .. or plain nutthugging.

That the Fedor v Overeem fight didn't happened is a shame, also because everything was in place for that fight to happen.


You are using now the Overeem was on steroids excuse, but he wasn't suspended, he was the Strikeforce champ.
Considering that since that time nobody seriously tested for steroids in mma, expecially in Japan, that's ridiculous.
Suddenly caring about steroids, truth is Overeem was a scary mofo to fight.

 

[Claude]

4 fight losing streak... Got better?

When Fedor fought him?

 

[Claude]

“His management declined for him to fight me tonight,” Overeem said. “Respect for Brett, ’cause he stood up and wanted to fight me like a man. I think now it’s Fedor’s time.”
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Ov...ers-Calls-Out-Fedor-24517#QFkY46KF8fWY6KPU.99

The Strikeforce champ defending his belt against Rogers, a guy that just lost against Fedor, instead of Fedor himself, makes sense.
And these two guys were the baddest men on the planet, nobody wanted to see the Werdum fight.
Yeah buddy, believe what you want, but i been a fans all these years and there was definitely a talk about Fedor subpar oppositions.

Everybody wanted a chance to fight him, Barnett was scheduled to fight in Affliction, everybody knows that, Randy quitted the UFC and burnt a lot of bridges just to get the opportunity to fight Fedor, and you think he ducked him at the last minute, ridiculous.
Actually Randy said that that the problems were on Fedor side, how unusual.
Oh, and Tim Sylvia is another guy that burnt bridges with the UFC just to fight Fedor, don't forget that.

You gave me a quote from Overeem who's a proven liar. I gave you a quote from Coker saying the winner of Fedor-Rogers would fight the winner of Wedum-Silva.

You lose.

 

[Claude]

They both were wishy washy about it. First Overeem wants Fedor for a title fight, but Fedor didnt want to fight him right away. Then Fedor fought Werdum, lost and then wanted to fight Overeem all of a sudden to make up for it. Overeem said "too bad, I'm doing K-1" and then at some point in between those things Fedor's camp accused Overeem of using roids which is why they wanted to avoid fighting him. After all was said and done they completely took that back and called him a "competitor" and whatnot, hyping him up for a potential match.

They're both being ducky mckducks but likes the rumor goes, I think Fedor didnt handle his own decisions very much and it was more of his management protecting him than anything.

Overeem wasn't top ranked and his title reign was an absolute joke. He didn't deserve to fight Fedor more than Rogers or Wedum.

 

[Claude]

My shit is all over the place, whoa.

I am the only one in this thread that is actually trying to link interviews and articles of that time as a reference, basically cold hard facts, while you are just speculating, kinda, shoulda, .. or plain nutthugging.

That the Fedor v Overeem fight didn't happened is a shame, also because everything was in place for that fight to happen.


You are using now the Overeem was on steroids excuse, but he wasn't suspended, he was the Strikeforce champ.
Considering that since that time nobody seriously tested for steroids in mma, expecially in Japan, that's ridiculous.
Suddenly caring about steroids, truth is Overeem was a scary mofo to fight.

You do know M-1 got screwed by a steroid cheat right?

They didn't just "suddenly" start caring about roids.

 

[Claude]

Overeem, an actual pro MMA fighter, is more credible than some Fedor nutswinger from Sherdog.

So did you believe him when he said he tested postitive for taking an anti-inflammatory mixed with testosterone? Did you believe him when he said he was a clean fighter?

Lawl

 

[Claude]

Actions speak louder than words, and fact is, Fedor is more likely to fight some drunk russian guy in a bar than he is Overeem, all because of the decisions he has made.

You mean like the decision Overeem made of running to K-1 instead of fighting Fedor, despite saying Fedor was ducking him on multiple occasions?

Actions speak louder than words. I absolutely agree with you.

 

[fatlipjesus]

“His management declined for him to fight me tonight,” Overeem said. “Respect for Brett, ’cause he stood up and wanted to fight me like a man. I think now it’s Fedor’s time.”
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Ov...ers-Calls-Out-Fedor-24517#QFkY46KF8fWY6KPU.99

The Strikeforce champ defending his belt against Rogers, a guy that just lost against Fedor, instead of Fedor himself, makes sense.
And these two guys were the baddest men on the planet, nobody wanted to see the Werdum fight.
Yeah buddy, believe what you want, but i been a fans all these years and there was definitely a talk about Fedor subpar oppositions.

Everybody wanted a chance to fight him, Barnett was scheduled to fight in Affliction, everybody knows that, Randy quitted the UFC and burnt a lot of bridges just to get the opportunity to fight Fedor, and you think he ducked him at the last minute, ridiculous.
Actually Randy said that that the problems were on Fedor side, how unusual.
Oh, and Tim Sylvia is another guy that burnt bridges with the UFC just to fight Fedor, don't forget that.

Stop pretending like you know everything when you clearly were not around at the time. Yes, Barnett was supposed to fight Fedor at Affliction.... that has nothing to do with the fact that he was also supposed to fight him at Shockwave 2006 and turned down the fight and took one against Nogueira instead, leaving Fedor to fight Hunt.

Couture... again.. stop trying to rewrite history. Couture was under contract by the UFC. The UFC would not let him out of that contract. The UFC would also not co-promote with M-1 so the fight could not take place in the UFC. Bodog offered Couture $3 million to fight Fedor.... he chose not to break his contract and returned to the UFC while Fedor instead fought the closest thing they could get to Couture in Matt Lindland... an American Olympic medalist wrestler.

Randy said that? Where? You kept saying "so and so said this" but never post anything except Overeem's ducking story.


And then you finish off by pointing out that Fedor fought Tim Sylvia.... so hes not afraid to fight the bigger 6'8 265lbs multiple UFC champ with a far more impressive career.... but he's afraid to fight the guy who he watched get knocked out by practically every LHW in Pride.