Fedor ducking Alistair Overeem debunked with nothing but cold hard facts

[method115]

Of course no source we have has total credibility but I would say Coker has a lot more of it than Overeem and he has carried on saying the same thing long after he had any attachment to Strikeforce or Fedor, look at that retriospective Strikeforce interview him and others involved did awhile ago.

The Coker story as well has the advantage that it brings in a lot of real collaborating evidence, what evidence does Overeem have to back up his story? claiming that Fedor waited until he was training for K-1(but not booked in the WGP) to ask for the fight? that Fedor's camp talked about drug testing for a potential fight? doesn't really add up to much does it? that he has to fall back to this stuff rather than bringing up a situation where he signed to fight Fedor and Fedor refused tells me that never happened.

Look at this thread honestly and tell me that the anti Fedor talk here is more honest, you can't can you?

I'm not going to read through all this drivel and decide who is more honest or more likely to be honest cause I frankly don't know. I just think it's absurd to use anything Coker says as a source. Coker was basically partners with Fedor even now they are still in contact so I still don't expect him to say anything different. On top of that he just doesn't come across as the type of guy to turn around and talk bad about you once he realizes he doesn't need you anymore. Honestly this is like asking Frankie Edgar who he think will win Connor or Eddie. Coker is a promoter and a very good one which means he will need to hide things and be dishonest when the time calls for it you can't trust these people.

 

[Claude]

Think you should find it at "based on news articles and not facts".

 

[moreorless87]

I'm not going to read through all this drivel and decide who is more honest or more likely to be honest cause I frankly don't know. I just think it's absurd to use anything Coker says as a source. Coker was basically partners with Fedor even now they are still in contact so I still don't expect him to say anything different. On top of that he just doesn't come across as the type of guy to turn around and talk bad about you once he realizes he doesn't need you anymore. Honestly this is like asking Frankie Edgar who he think will win Connor or Eddie. Coker is a promoter and a very good one which means he will need to hide things and be dishonest when the time calls for it you can't trust these people.

Coker was actually less close to Fedor than he was to Overeem, one fighter was directly contracted to him whilst the other was signed to another org than co promoted with him. You look at his actions afterwards and he hardly seems greatly pro Fedor to me, no rematch with Werdum for example which would have been a 100% certainy if Fedor had been a hyped UFC champion.

Its nothing like asking Edgar who would win between Conor and Eddie, were not talking about Coker picking a winner were talking about Coker providing evidence Fedor did not duck Overeem. You can dismiss all potential evidence if you want but I think the argument has been well made that theres more of it backing up that point than there is Overeems story.

To turn it around though I don't think Overeem is really at fault either, fighting in the K-1 WGP is no easy option and kickboxing had obviously been his main career focus in the couple of years previous.

 

[lukeuidswords]

Fedor nutswingers are more credible than pro MMA fighters - you.

I'm saying you shouldn't automatically take what anyone says for granted, fighter or not.

Remember "DRUG FREE"?

 

[Glove]

Alstair Overeem, post fight interview of Brett Rogers saying Fedor isn't ducking him but M-1 management at fault for not making fight available because of steroid accusations on Overeem. He clearly says Fedor isn't afraid and even states he is a "warrior".

 

[Claude]

Mate, Fedor said he "wanted" to fight Overeem on August 24, 2010. By this stage Overeem was not training MMA as he had given up on fighting Fedor and was exclusively training for K1. He was scheduled to fight his first fight of the K1 Grand Prix literally ONE solitary month (October 2, 2010) after Fedor's perfunctory call out.

I don't care how many arbitrary news clippings you have provided - the narrative you are trying to convey is false. Overeem might have scampered when Fedor's management tried to implement strict drug testing during the first attempt at organising a fight, but Fedor had many opportunities thereafter to fight, an albeit juiced up Overeem, but continued to duck and weave.

The reality is that trying to implement stringent drug testing was his first (but not his last) sign of weakness. He had faced many juiceheads in Pride, he and his management were just looking for an out, as they were afraid of what Ubereem could do to him, and that is fact.

That is not a valid excuse.

Would you be OK with Fedor turning down an elite opponent for a Sambo tournament?

Yeah. People would have bashed Fedor nonstop if he did that. If Overeem CHOSE his kickboxing career over his MMA career that's his problem not Fedor's. Overeem was not contractually obligated nor had announced he would be competing there.

Again you didn't pay attention. Drug testing was requested by M-1 for all fighters not just Overeem because they had already been screwed by a roider. The "steroid bully" thing was irrelevant and didn't prevent any fight as Coker had already stated the winner of Fedor-Rogers would be facing the winner of Werdum-Silva.

Plus Overeem wasn't even top 10 at the time. Could you tell me in what world does an unranked fighter has the right the call out the #1 HW?

Sorry bro but the facts are overwhelming against the narrative that Fedor ducked Overeem because it simply never happened. Overeem opened his mouth and you kids bought all of his nonsense.

Cheers.

 

[method115]

Coker was actually less close to Fedor than he was to Overeem, one fighter was directly contracted to him whilst the other was signed to another org than co promoted with him. You look at his actions afterwards and he hardly seems greatly pro Fedor to me, no rematch with Werdum for example which would have been a 100% certainy if Fedor had been a hyped UFC champion.

Its nothing like asking Edgar who would win between Conor and Eddie, were not talking about Coker picking a winner were talking about Coker providing evidence Fedor did not duck Overeem. You can dismiss all potential evidence if you want but I think the argument has been well made that theres more of it backing up that point than there is Overeems story.

To turn it around though I don't think Overeem is really at fault either, fighting in the K-1 WGP is no easy option and kickboxing had obviously been his main career focus in the couple of years previous.

It's not about who Coker is closer to. It's about the fact that they were essentially business partners. To expect him to go out and say things that would imply he's ducking Reem would ruin that relationship. No one knows if Fedor was ducking Reem or not except for Fedor and anyone else involved in the negotiations. We can never know and will never know all we can do is speculate. You want to believe he didn't duck Reem? That's fine. I don't know or really care to much to begin with. My whole point was it's silly to use Coker as a source for anything when discussing this topic.

 

[Stan]

Pics don't lie the before and after pics of Overeem as a steroid freak and those without steroids are very revealing.

 

[Claude]

I'm not going to read through all this drivel and decide who is more honest or more likely to be honest cause I frankly don't know. I just think it's absurd to use anything Coker says as a source. Coker was basically partners with Fedor even now they are still in contact so I still don't expect him to say anything different. On top of that he just doesn't come across as the type of guy to turn around and talk bad about you once he realizes he doesn't need you anymore. Honestly this is like asking Frankie Edgar who he think will win Connor or Eddie. Coker is a promoter and a very good one which means he will need to hide things and be dishonest when the time calls for it you can't trust these people.

But you think using Overeem's words as a source is OK?

You do realize the only reason people claim Fedor ducked Overeem is because Overeem said so right?

 

[method115]

Pics don't lie the before and after pics of Overeem as a steroid freak and those without steroids are very revealing.

It's crazy how much eh's changed.

 

[method115]

But you think using Overeem's words as a source is OK?

You do realize the only reason people claim Fedor ducked Overeem is because Overeem said so right?

Never said using Reem as a source was ok and for the record no I don't.

 

[Bubblun]

Alstair Overeem, post fight interview of Brett Rogers saying Fedor isn't ducking him but M-1 management at fault for not making fight available because of steroid accusations on Overeem. He clearly says Fedor isn't afraid and even states he is a "warrior".

That's interesting, but we better believe Overeem was respectful and wanted the fight to happen without compromising his good relationship with Fedor and be classy.

It's crazy that fight didn't happen, everyone wanted it, and it made sense because Fedor was the Last Emperor, the supposedly baddest man in the world and Overeem was the Strikeforce champion, the mma fighter that went into kickboxing and knocked out Badr Hari, simply put he was the motherf###er to beat.
If it didn't happen the fault was was on Fedor's side.

Honestly Vadim Finkelchtein was used as a scapegoat everytime, by Dana White initially and then the fans, i remember an internet myth at the time saying he was blocking Fedor career in the west, while Fedor got payed a lot of money at the time even if he wasn't a draw in the USA, in fact every promotion overpaid him big time and went down.

Everytime i heard a Vadim interview he said Fedor makes his own decisions.
He recently said he is more of a friend than Fedor (former) manager.
And to put this in perspective, Vadim said that he has nothing to do with Fedor after his return, the Jaideep and the Maldonado fight.

 

[TheNinja]

Pics don't lie the before and after pics of Overeem as a steroid freak and those without steroids are very revealing.

Damn!! That's actually shocking the difference!!

 

[NaughtyBoy]

When both were fighting at Pride Alistair ducked Fedor.
Horse meat made Alistair man up and finally went after a faded Fedor.

 

[Bubblun]

Pics don't lie the before and after pics of Overeem as a steroid freak and those without steroids are very revealing.

No doubt about that, everyone know Overeem was juiced to the grills, but the fact that Fedor avoided Overeem remains.

This is should not be a Fedor vs Overeem affair, it should be an impartial discussion about why that fight didn't happen.

But you think using Overeem's words as a source is OK?

You do realize the only reason people claim Fedor ducked Overeem is because Overeem said so right?

Maybe you don't understand because you are literally hanging from Fedor balls, but..

... Fedor was the Last Emperor, the undefeated Pride HW champion, the living Legend and Overeem was the Strikeforce champion, a lot of people at the time thought he was the best heavyweight on the planet, he just knocked out Badr Hari in kickboxing, returned to mma and bitch tossed Brett Rogers, finished him without breaking a sweat, Brett Rogers the same guy that Fedor just fought and had a back and forth fight before landing that huge haymaker, THEN Overeem called Fedor out AGAIN, THAT FIGHT HAD TO HAPPEN.

And reality was that Fedor had a lot of people who said he was lacking proper competition to be called the best heavyweight, and that was going on for years, even before the Hong Man Choi fight.
The only reason why the internet mma forums didn't imploded when the Werdum fight was announced was because it was in a tournament, not exactly like in Japan were it was everthing in one night, but everybody thought that if Fedor got past Werdum the Overeem fight eventually was going to happen.
The rest is history.

 

[Glove]

That's interesting, but we better believe Overeem was respectful and wanted the fight to happen without compromising his good relationship with Fedor and be classy.

It's crazy that fight didn't happen, everyone wanted it, and it made sense because Fedor was the Last Emperor, the supposedly baddest man in the world and Overeem was the Strikeforce champion, the mma fighter that went into kickboxing and knocked out Badr Hari, simply put he was the motherf###er to beat.
If it didn't happen the fault was was on Fedor's side.

Honestly Vadim Finkelchtein was used as a scapegoat everytime, by Dana White initially and then the fans, i remember an internet myth at the time saying he was blocking Fedor career in the west, while Fedor got payed a lot of money at the time even if he wasn't a draw in the USA, in fact every promotion overpaid him big time and went down.

Everytime i heard a Vadim interview he said Fedor makes his own decisions.
He recently said he is more of a friend than Fedor (former) manager.
And to put this in perspective, Vadim said that he has nothing to do with Fedor after his return, the Jaideep and the Maldonado fight.

I make no excuses for Fedor however, im still a bit displeased with the whole Maldonado circus..the judges working for Russian MMA Union which is actually headed by Fedor himself. Think they were going to score it Fabio's way? Not in the very least. My favorite fighter of all time is Fedor Emilanenko, always will be, one thing i hope imm not viewed as is a "nuthugger". I know shenanigans went down in that match. I thought it should have been a draw at the very least.

There were many fighters and coaches from Europe who thought the match at the very least a draw. Here is a quote fro Khabib Nuramegdov's father from the website Bloodyelbow:

"At home, we support our legend Fedor but in another country, this is at best a draw!!" Abdulmanap revealed on his social media accounts. "This cannot go on forever and I think we are guilty in the first place. We were spoiled by Fedor's convincing victories for many years. MMA is waiting for new heroes in the heavyweight division."

For me this is probably the best "explanation" for the aura of Fedor this late in his career. He can't compete at the top level anymore, and i expected this. It wasn't so much is ferocious power, which he still has, it was his speed as a heavyweight. His ability to transition fro his back to an armbar was something e never seen before.

Look at these gif's here as examples of his movement from the bottom. His hip toss and the quick ability to maneuver from a defensive position to an offensive position from it. This is what, i believe, fans are "expecting" to see from him but those days are long over. As you age, you become slower physically. Fedor has become what older heavyweights become, brawlers. It wasn't his best attribute.

 

[Repsac]

Rogers had just as many top wins as Overeem though.

Overeem didn't have a win over the #2 ranked HW and he wasn't undefeated either.

 

[fatlipjesus]

I 100% legitimately believe this. Don't see whats so shocking, Overeem has the better resume (when looking at his biggest named wins, not his win-loss number value nor his losses) and with a UFC title he will have held better titles than Fedor..

Whats shocking is that you're trying to say a guy who has never been the #1 HW at any point in time is the greatest heavyweight of all-time.....

 

[Claude]

No doubt about that, everyone know Overeem was juiced to the grills, but the fact that Fedor avoided Overeem remains.

This is should not be a Fedor vs Overeem affair, it should be an impartial discussion about why that fight didn't happen.


Maybe you don't understand because you are literally hanging from Fedor balls, but..

... Fedor was the Last Emperor, the undefeated Pride HW champion, the living Legend and Overeem was the Strikeforce champion, a lot of people at the time thought he was the best heavyweight on the planet, he just knocked out Badr Hari in kickboxing, returned to mma and bitch tossed Brett Rogers, finished him without breaking a sweat, Brett Rogers the same guy that Fedor just fought and had a back and forth fight before landing that huge haymaker, THEN Overeem called Fedor out AGAIN, THAT FIGHT HAD TO HAPPEN.

And reality was that Fedor had a lot of people who said he was lacking proper competition to be called the best heavyweight, and that was going on for years, even before the Hong Man Choi fight.
The only reason why the internet mma forums didn't imploded when the Werdum fight was announced was because it was in a tournament, not exactly like in Japan were it was everthing in one night, but everybody thought that if Fedor got past Werdum the Overeem fight eventually was going to happen.
The rest is history.

Wrong.

When Overeem defeated Rogers Fedor was already scheduled to fight Werdum and after Fedor lost Overeem didn't want to fight him.

See?

100% of the people saying Fedor ducked Overeem are ignorants on the subject.

 

[fatlipjesus]

No doubt about that, everyone know Overeem was juiced to the grills, but the fact that Fedor avoided Overeem remains.

This is should not be a Fedor vs Overeem affair, it should be an impartial discussion about why that fight didn't happen.


Maybe you don't understand because you are literally hanging from Fedor balls, but..

... Fedor was the Last Emperor, the undefeated Pride HW champion, the living Legend and Overeem was the Strikeforce champion, a lot of people at the time thought he was the best heavyweight on the planet, he just knocked out Badr Hari in kickboxing, returned to mma and bitch tossed Brett Rogers, finished him without breaking a sweat, Brett Rogers the same guy that Fedor just fought and had a back and forth fight before landing that huge haymaker, THEN Overeem called Fedor out AGAIN, THAT FIGHT HAD TO HAPPEN.

And reality was that Fedor had a lot of people who said he was lacking proper competition to be called the best heavyweight, and that was going on for years, even before the Hong Man Choi fight.
The only reason why the internet mma forums didn't imploded when the Werdum fight was announced was because it was in a tournament, not exactly like in Japan were it was everthing in one night, but everybody thought that if Fedor got past Werdum the Overeem fight eventually was going to happen.
The rest is history.

Your history isnt exactly correct. When Fedor was at his peak there were not many people that actually wanted to fight him. He was supposed to fight CC, CC pulls out saying hes "injured", yet then takes a different fight. Josh Barnett, same thing, says hes not ready to fight then takes a fight against Nog while Fedor fights Hunt with a broken toe. Couture goes looking for Fedor, sees him destroy Sylvia and suddenly isnt interested anymore despite being offered $3 mill for the fight.