Fedor - Dana hated me... lol

[LiverpunchKO]

one does not post a hate thread on fedor in this subforum and get away with it.

 

[bat_country]

Outside of a few Brazilians, UFC barely even had any international fighters back then. Its Japan (RINGS) that went to Russia discovering the likes of Fedor. Otherwise there would be no Fedor. If it wasn't for Japanese orgs like RINGS, Shooto, K-1, and Pancrase who had an obsession of bringing talent from across the world, we would not be seeing the diversity of MMA we have today. UFC only went full-international after they acquired PRIDE, before that it was overwhelmingly American with a Brazilian minority, and very few talent outside that circle.

I'm aware of this, I was simply looking at the "what if" scenerio where Fedor fought in the UFC instead of Pride. And looking at the UFC's HW division at the time, Fedor would have been just as dominant (probably moreso) than he was in Pride.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Did Hammill retire after the Thiago Silva fight? Penn has a fight coming up with Frankie Edgar.

Have you been drinking?

They all retired. Diaz technically hasn't come back yet.

 

[VAfan]

Who, in Fedor's prime, that was fighting in the UFC at the time do you feel could have beat him?
Sylvia? Arlovski? Mir? Randy?

we're talking about at the time that the big negotiations were going on with M1 - which is shortly before he went to strikeforce and started losing.

and like i said, it wouldn't have gone well for him, he would have lost in the ufc at that point in time more than he won.

 

[eXtv]

I take it you are assuming that Fedor was out of his prime when he got crushed by the second team in strikeforce, including by a former middleweight? Well isn't that convenient.

Fedor's fall from the top of the Heavyweight mountain began in his mid-30's (34 and up).

At 34 and up Gretzky couldn't make the top 10 scorers in the NHL. Obviously he was always overrated.

At 34 and up Shaq was being outplayed by a lot of guys. Obviously he was always overrated.

At 34 and up Roy Jones Jr lost to a lot of fighters, including guys not even in the top ten. Obviously he was always overrated.

Even before hitting 34 Samprass couldn't even get to a Grand Slam final. Obviously he was always overrated. Same with Federer for that matter.

What part of getting old don't you understand? Or is everyone suddenly exposed when they get older? Jordan wasn't the same player when he was in his mid-30's. Obviously he was always overrated. You can go through a huge list- there are exceptions, but they're just that, exceptions.

 

[Lethal_Striker]

I highly doubt that Fedor ever typed a lol in anything he typed.

 

[DhakaMMA]

I'm aware of this, I was simply looking at the "what if" scenerio where Fedor fought in the UFC instead of Pride. And looking at the UFC's HW division at the time, Fedor would have been just as dominant (probably moreso) than he was in Pride.

But as if pointed out, RINGS went to Russia, and discovered Fedor. They than brought him back to Japan, and he fought in their tournament. There's two point to be made here: (1) UFC would have never discovered Fedor, there would be no Fedor. (2) Given that he was discovered by a Japanese promotion, and brought to Japan, it only made sense that he would stay in Japan and fight for [another] Japanese org (PRIDE).

If you really want to go into alternate reality stuff. Then Fedor ends up being lost in the intra-dimension. And food for thought, assume Fedor did go to the UFC. The UFC as we know was in its infancy, and Neocons like John McCain were trying to get it banned. I think had Fedor been champ, it would have been that more likely to be banned or suppressed.

 

[hitcher]

Imaginary promotion that didn't put on shows? Lol wat, M-1 puts on shows regularly, and practically owns the Russian market. They've introduced numerous Russian and North Caucasian prospects into MMA.

As for promotions, Mayweather Promotions, Canelo Promotions, all these promotions are just one guy. Fedor is a promotion in himself. Organizations like HBO and Showtime pay millions to co-promote with fighters on that level. And that's what they did with Fedor, UFC couldn't deliver. They believe in monopoly business practices, and co-promotion just never was an option. Even today they refuse to hold an event in NY (instead still perpetuating the belief that MMA is banned here), because it requires sanctioning under a third-party like the WKA, PKA, ISKA, etc.

That's interesting. Can you elaborate on that? Especially on the "sanctioning under a thirdy party" bit.

 

[DhakaMMA]

That's interesting. Can you elaborate on that? Especially on the "sanctioning under a thirdy party" bit.

MMA isn't banned in NY (its more of a gray area). It just isn't sanctioned by the Athletic commission.... but neither is Kickboxing. Instead what you have is third-party "martial arts" commissions that are tasked/allowed to sanction Kickboxing events. These include the WKA, PKA, even the Judo Association, etc.

As for MMA, what we know for a fact is that "amateur" MMA is totally allowed in NY. "Amateur" according to NY laws, is any MMA event where the athletes are not being professionally paid. But given that the NYSAC does not oversee MMA, you can actually have any type of rule set (PRIDE, Pancrase, whatever). There's no extra "rules/regulations" that make it amateur, rather less.

Now recently Zuffa tried to sue NY, into allowing MMA (when all this "ban" hype was going around). That's basically when it came out that NYSAC simply doesn't have any jurisdiction over MMA to begin with. While reconfirming how kickboxing is operated. Which brings about the gray-area, that it may be possible to hold professional MMA following the Kickboxing model.


Sources for your consideration:
— http://www.fightline.com/fl-news-2013-0213-553340-ufc-new-york/

— http://adcombat.com/association-of-...oliticians-on-amateur-and-pro-mma-in-new-york

 

[hitcher]

MMA isn't banned in NY (its more of a gray area). It just isn't sanctioned by the Athletic commission.... but neither is Kickboxing. Instead what you have is third-party "martial arts" commissions that are tasked/allowed to sanction Kickboxing events. These include the WKA, PKA, even the Judo Association, etc.

As for MMA, what we know for a fact is that "amateur" MMA is totally allowed in NY. "Amateur" according to NY laws, is any MMA event where the athletes are not being professionally paid. But given that the NYSAC does not oversee MMA, you can actually have any type of rule set (PRIDE, Pancrase, whatever). There's no extra "rules/regulations" that make it amateur, rather less.

Now recently Zuffa tried to sue NY, into allowing MMA. That's basically when it came out that NYSAC simply doesn't have any jurisdiction over MMA to begin with. While reconfirming how kickboxing is operated. Which brings about the gray-area, that it may be possible to hold professional MMA following the Kickboxing model.


Sources for your consideration:

 

[bat_country]

But as if pointed out, RINGS went to Russia, and discovered Fedor. They than brought him back to Japan, and he fought in their tournament. There's two point to be made here: (1) UFC would have never discovered Fedor, there would be no Fedor. (2) Given that he was discovered by a Japanese promotion, and brought to Japan, it only made sense that he would stay in Japan and fight for [another] Japanese org (PRIDE).

If you really want to go into alternate reality stuff. Then Fedor ends up being lost in the intra-dimension. And food for thought, assume Fedor did go to the UFC. The UFC as we know was in its infancy, and Neocons like John McCain were trying to get it banned. I think had Fedor been champ, it would have been that more likely to be banned or suppressed.

That's just silly. By 2002 (when Fedor joined Pride) Zuffa owned the UFC and it was already starting to be sanctioned and the "ban it" talk had died down quite a bit.
Who do you think would have been more frightening to lawmakers as HW champ just based on their appearance Tim Sylvia (tats, funky hair, etc) or Fedor (pudgy bald dude)?

 

[Fujita]

I don't really blame Fedor, all Dana did was talk shit about him, he made a ton of money and got respected in other organisations.. With how slimy the UFC are I bet he made more in affliction/SF than if he would have signed with the UFC.

Fedor never needed forced Zuffa hype and he is considered the greatest of all time, people talk about his managers, a damn good manager.

 

[JamesBJJ]

Fedor's fall from the top of the Heavyweight mountain began in his mid-30's (34 and up).

At 34 and up Gretzky couldn't make the top 10 scorers in the NHL. Obviously he was always overrated.

At 34 and up Shaq was being outplayed by a lot of guys. Obviously he was always overrated.

At 34 and up Roy Jones Jr lost to a lot of fighters, including guys not even in the top ten. Obviously he was always overrated.

Even before hitting 34 Samprass couldn't even get to a Grand Slam final. Obviously he was always overrated. Same with Federer for that matter.

What part of getting old don't you understand? Or is everyone suddenly exposed when they get older? Jordan wasn't the same player when he was in his mid-30's. Obviously he was always overrated. You can go through a huge list- there are exceptions, but they're just that, exceptions.

Problem with that comparison is that all the guys you mentioned participated in legit, sanctioned leagues/matches, and consistently competed against the very best in the world.

Fedor on the other hand fought in a pro-wrestling/entertainment organization that was not sanctioned, that was known for fixing fights, and that allowed steroid use. Fedor also padded his record with cans, freakshows and has-beens nearly every other fight.

It is interesting that as soon as Fedor started regularly fighting in sanctioned American organizations, and fought 6 top-10 fighters in a row for the first time in his entire career, he went 3-3.

 

[Fujita]

Problem with that comparison is that all the guys you mentioned fought in legit, sanctioned leagues, and consistently competed against and proved themselves against the very best.

Fedor on the other hand fought in a pro-wrestling/entertainment organization that was not sanctioned, that was known for fixing fights, and that did not sanction steroid use. Fedor also padded his record with cans, freakshows and has-beens nearly every other fight.

It is interesting that as soon as Fedor started regularly fighting in sanctioned American organizations, and fought 6 top-10 fighters in a row for the first time in his entire career, he went 3-3.

Fedor fought in the toughest organisation, Pride wasn't a freak show, Dana sent his best over there, if Fedor signed with the UFC instead of Pride he would have had a much easier time and his record would have been even more padded.

Fedor didn't start losing right away when he fought in USA, first four fights he went 4-0, he had to lose sometime.

 

[HereticBD]

It's because he was scared of Brock Lesnar.

 

[Smigg]

Fedor fought in the toughest organisation, Pride wasn't a freak show, Dana sent his best over there, if Fedor signed with the UFC instead of Pride he would have had a much easier time and his record would have been even more padded.

Fedor didn't start losing right away when he fought in USA, first four fights he went 4-0, he had to lose sometime.

In fairness, he didn't actually fight everyone in PRIDE. It got to a point where the top guys were fighting each other, whilst Fedor wasn't really in that mix towards the end. He should have fought Kharitonov or Barnett in PRIDE, he didn't fight Werdum until Strikeforce, there were guys he could have fought, instead of fucking around with Zuluzinho and fights like that.

I don't think he would have had a much easier time in the UFC because of the ruleset. He struggled in the cage, with no elbows. You combine the cage WITH the elbows, against strong wrestlers, there's always the chance that he would lose via cut to a lesser skilled opponent because of the different rules, different style of fighting and his vunerability to cuts.

 

[Fujita]

In fairness, he didn't actually fight everyone in PRIDE. It got to a point where the top guys were fighting each other, whilst Fedor wasn't really in that mix towards the end. He should have fought Kharitonov or Barnett in PRIDE, he didn't fight Werdum until Strikeforce, there were guys he could have fought, instead of fucking around with Zuluzinho and fights like that.

I don't think he would have had a much easier time in the UFC because of the ruleset. He struggled in the cage, with no elbows. You combine the cage WITH the elbows, against strong wrestlers, there's always the chance that he would lose via cut to a lesser skilled opponent because of the different rules, different style of fighting and his vunerability to cuts.

Barnett is really the only top HW he didn't fight, Werdum/Sergei wasn't on his level at the time. Zulu fight was a joke I do admit.

You have a point with the rule set, though I can't see any HW in the UFC during 2002-2007 that could challenge Fedor, maybe Ricco on a good day.

 

[MitMcl]

If Fedor really wanted to, he would have fought in the UFC.

 

[glennrod]

Problem with that comparison is that all the guys you mentioned participated in legit, sanctioned leagues/matches, and consistently competed against the very best in the world.

Fedor on the other hand fought in a pro-wrestling/entertainment organization that was not sanctioned, that was known for fixing fights, and that allowed steroid use. Fedor also padded his record with cans, freakshows and has-beens nearly every other fight.

It is interesting that as soon as Fedor started regularly fighting in sanctioned American organizations, and fought 6 top-10 fighters in a row for the first time in his entire career, he went 3-3.

WOW, thats a whole lot of stupid right there

 

[iKOdMyself]

Still GOAT