FBI raids office of Michael Cohen, personal attorney to Donald Trump

[ShoelessRye]

Folks need to understand that the role of the special prosecutor changed greatly after Ken Starr, it was greatly reined in. Mueller has like 1/10th the power Starr had.

 

[ShoelessRye]

 

[sickc0d3r]

Folks need to understand that the role of the special prosecutor changed greatly after Ken Starr, it was greatly reined in. Mueller has like 1/10th the power Starr had.

Yeah, Starr was independent counsel, which was basically untouchable. That no longer exists.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Yep. Any transparently shameful act on behalf of this fatty clown is reprehensible.

 

[KILL KILL]

Republican posters here are just proving what we all suspected.

No matter what crimes Trump committed they don't care.
He's "innocent" yet can have a laundry list of crimes hidden but still have their 100% support.

They never wanted him investigated because they didn't care if anything concrete was found. Cult followers till the very end.

Should we be surprised? Republicans have shown in the past year to support a in Roy Moore & criminal in Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

They lost the moral high ground a long time ago.



That's an interesting point. I was wondering why Trump was holding on to Pruitt. Even Fox News couldn't defend his corruption and over spending.



Ohhhh f*ck OFF!!!!

Exposed as a liar and shitposter. Incoming....

You talk shit about a bunch of other countries. You're the biggest U.S. nationalist here. With posts reeking of racism and bigotry.

France, Germany:



Canada:



Sweden:



China & Russia:



Australia:



And finally my favourite that highlights your racist shitposting.

Africa:







You're a racist piece of shit.

I don't know why you're not banned yet.

Also you can't spell. Which makes me think you're either retarded or a teenager. I suspect both.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Still waiting for Trumpbots to admit that even if Trump committed no felony, this REALLY looks like he surrounded himself with shady characters that are confessing to crimes, and, you know, you were against criminality when it was somebody else.
CRIMINAL? SAD!

 

[44nutman]

Republican posters here are just proving what we all suspected.

No matter what crimes Trump committed they don't care.
He's "innocent" yet can have a laundry list of crimes hidden but still have their 100% support.

They never wanted him investigated because they didn't care if anything concrete was found. Cult followers till the very end.

Should we be surprised? Republicans have shown in the past year to support a in Roy Moore & criminal in Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

They lost the moral high ground a long time ago.

.

 

[ShadowRun]

Still waiting for Trumpbots to admit that even if Trump committed no felony, this REALLY looks like he surrounded himself with shady characters that are confessing to crimes, and, you know, you were against criminality when it was somebody else.
CRIMINAL? SAD!

He has some stupid people around him for sure, probably because they are "loyal" maybe. He should of wiped the slate clean when he left business for government/politics there is no sweeping things under the rug. I think this is an overstep of power though, this has been snowballing, "hey if you aren't doing anything wrong, it doesn't matter if we wiretap, look through your things and intrude right?"

It will be interesting to see what comes of this all, it probably will last until 2024.

 

[MikeMcMann]

...


Again, Mueller has a limited mandate. He is not authorized to look everywhere for every reason. He is tasked with investigating ties between the Trump campaign and the government of Russia. Then, if in the course of that investigation he finds evidence of criminal behavior unrelated to his core mandate, he can look into it or refer it to another office.

It's a worthwhile question to ask why Mueller would have information about Cohen in the first place, as Cohen does not appear to be affiliated with the government of Russia and does not appear to have been a member of the Trump campaign.

All of that said, the SDNY looks worse here. It's likely their prosecutors could have acquired at least some of the desired documents (bank records, tax records, phone records) through subpoenas, for example.

No you are just being ignorant on this topic.

Yes Mueller has a limited mandate.

WHAT THAT DOES NOT MEAN, is that if while investigating his limited mandate he finds a dead body or suspects any other crime, he does not point it out to the proper authorities and say 'hey maybe you should look into this and see if you think it needs to be pursued'.

In fact I would BET he has an obligation to report it to other authorities if he comes across something he suspects is a crime outside his mandate as an officer of the court and the State.

You have a profound misunderstanding of what 'limited mandate' means as it only means what he will investigate, but it in no way is put there to prevent him from referring other crimes to others if and when he sees or suspects them.

 

[ShoelessRye]

No you are just being ignorant on this topic.

Yes Mueller has a limited mandate.

WHAT THAT DOES NOT MEAN, is that if while investigating his limited mandate he finds a dead body or suspects any other crime, he does not point it out to the proper authorities and say 'hey maybe you should look into this and see if you think it needs to be pursued'.

In fact I would BET he has an obligation to report it to other authorities if he comes across something he suspects is a crime outside his mandate as an officer of the court and the State.

You have a profound misunderstanding of what 'limited mandate' means as it only means what he will investigate, but it in no way is put there to prevent him from referring other crimes to others if and when he sees or suspects them.

I mean it's all right there in the official order that created the investigation - in (b) subsection (ii)

any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and ​

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

 

[SMillard]

I think you've been watching too much MSNBC. There's nothing illegal about filling out a DND; there's nothing illegal about lying to the press about who made it or knows about it.

What ever this is, is something that Mueller ran across by chance.

I actually don't rely on just one news source, in fact I tend to read at least two or three a day and normally at least one of those will be an international publication. I will flip between CNN, BBC and Fox on my satellite radio and normally do the same on television. MSNBC isn't one I'm too fond of since I really don't care for most of the hosts, although some of the panelists are decent and I've definitely got a thing for Heidi Przyblyla

.

You're right, there is nothing illegal about DND (Dungeons and Dragons?) I think you meant NDA or non-disclosure agreements. There is nothing illegal about them, I've signed a few in my time and also gone into some that I knew were not enforceable and been successful in disputing them. They aren't a catch all, and they have limits to their powers. I've also dealt in contract disputes and one thing I can tell you is an attorney can't just "I think I'll take care of this action without conferring with or getting the consent of the client". If Trump had just said "yeah, I made a mistake and asked Mr. Cohen to take care of it" those that hated him would still hate him, those that support him would still support him. The problem is the two of them have left it in a suspect area where it could be considered a campaign contribution violation, there are other issues. You are focusing on the wrong things, lying to the press isn't "illegal" lying to a banking institution about a loan is, lying or concealing a campaign contribution is. The fact that there is issues such as how Cohen has been "compensated" raises concerns of money laundering.

Truth is Stormy hired a very good and press savvy attorney and he has manipulated Cohen into the corner he is in. Avenati has succeeded in putting himself into the rotation of legal consultants for a bunch of news networks. Hell I'm sure Trump is wishing he'd hired the guy, wouldn't be surprised if he didn't try to. Wouldn't be the first time he hired an attorney that kicked the snot out of his legal team.

 

[SMillard]

He has some stupid people around him for sure, probably because they are "loyal" maybe. He should of wiped the slate clean when he left business for government/politics there is no sweeping things under the rug. I think this is an overstep of power though, this has been snowballing, "hey if you aren't doing anything wrong, it doesn't matter if we wiretap, look through your things and intrude right?"

It will be interesting to see what comes of this all, it probably will last until 2024.

the problem is he didn't leave business for government. Late yesterday there were reports he had someone threaten Panama. Panama a country that hasn't done anything noteworthy well except the Trump tower down there took his name off the place and divested from him and called in the authorities to kick out the Trump org staff. So much for leaving everything in bobble head Don Jr and Eric's (I swear is the love child of Gary Busey and Ivana) hands.

 

[MikeMcMann]

I mean it's all right there in the official order that created the investigation - in (b) subsection (ii)

any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and ​

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

I'll just keep copying and pasting this part from my prior reply and hope you can shed your ignorance on this.

WHAT THAT DOES NOT MEAN, is that if while investigating his limited mandate he finds a dead body or suspects any other crime, he does not point it out to the proper authorities and say 'hey maybe you should look into this and see if you think it needs to be pursued'.

 

[waiguoren]

No you are just being ignorant on this topic.

Yes Mueller has a limited mandate.

WHAT THAT DOES NOT MEAN, is that if while investigating his limited mandate he finds a dead body or suspects any other crime, he does not point it out to the proper authorities and say 'hey maybe you should look into this and see if you think it needs to be pursued'.

In fact I would BET he has an obligation to report it to other authorities if he comes across something he suspects is a crime outside his mandate as an officer of the court and the State.

You have a profound misunderstanding of what 'limited mandate' means as it only means what he will investigate, but it in no way is put there to prevent him from referring other crimes to others if and when he sees or suspects them.

As I have written to you repeatedly, I am aware that Mueller's mandate covers any matters that arise out of the investigation into the Trump campaign's alleged links to Russia. I was the first person in this thread to paste Mueller's mandate, many pages before @Shoeless Rye.

Repeating a non-response doesn't advance the discussion further.

The issue that you have yet to address is: why would Mueller have come across Cohen's payment to Trump's alleged mistress in the course of investigating the Trump campaign for president's alleged links to the Russian government? As far as I know: Cohen was not a lawyer for the Trump campaign for president nor was he a member of that campaign in any capacity. Also, he was not an agent of the Russian government.

You might argue that Cohen was Trump's long-time attorney and that Cohen's links to Trump are numerous and well-documented. I would counter that we must have a precise definition of "the campaign of President Donald Trump", otherwise the phrase "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals
associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump" could be construed to cover almost anybody.

 

[MikeMcMann]

As I have written to you repeatedly, I am aware that Mueller's mandate covers any matters that arise out of the investigation into the Trump campaign's alleged links to Russia. I was the first person in this thread to paste Mueller's mandate, many pages before @Shoeless Rye.

Repeating a non-response doesn't advance the discussion further.

The issue that you have yet to address is: why would Mueller have come across Cohen's payment to Trump's alleged mistress in the course of investigating the Trump campaign for president's alleged links to the Russian government? As far as I know: Cohen was not a lawyer for the Trump campaign for president nor was he a member of that campaign in any capacity. Also, he was not an agent of the Russian government.

You might argue that Cohen was Trump's long-time attorney and that Cohen's links to Trump are numerous and well-documented. I would counter that we must have a precise definition of "the campaign of President Donald Trump", otherwise the phrase "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals
associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump" could be construed to cover almost anybody.

Neither you nor any sherdogger (myself included) can speak to how Mueller came across that evidence. That you want us to guess so we can then debate it is silly.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You seem strangely confident that Trump is clean in this whole mess. I'm asking why that is. You can see that he's acting extremely guilty, right?

 

[PolishHeadlock]

As I have written to you repeatedly, I am aware that Mueller's mandate covers any matters that arise out of the investigation into the Trump campaign's alleged links to Russia. I was the first person in this thread to paste Mueller's mandate, many pages before @Shoeless Rye.

Repeating a non-response doesn't advance the discussion further.

The issue that you have yet to address is: why would Mueller have come across Cohen's payment to Trump's alleged mistress in the course of investigating the Trump campaign for president's alleged links to the Russian government? As far as I know: Cohen was not a lawyer for the Trump campaign for president nor was he a member of that campaign in any capacity. Also, he was not an agent of the Russian government.

You might argue that Cohen was Trump's long-time attorney and that Cohen's links to Trump are numerous and well-documented. I would counter that we must have a precise definition of "the campaign of President Donald Trump", otherwise the phrase "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals
associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump" could be construed to cover almost anybody.

He's an RNC finance chairman

 

[JadeOwl]

Any source for the claim that the Trump campaign/charity reimbursed Cohen?

I don't remember where I read it, but denying that he was reimbursed by the Campaign was practically the first thing Cohen did, so it must've been the first thing that popped in everyone's mind.

Since we really don't know what Mueller passed along to the SDNY, all we can do is speculate.

Again, Mueller has a limited mandate. He is not authorized to look everywhere for every reason. He is tasked with investigating ties between the Trump campaign and the government of Russia. Then, if in the course of that investigation he finds evidence of criminal behavior unrelated to his core mandate, he can look into it or refer it to another office.

It's a worthwhile question to ask why Mueller would have information about Cohen in the first place, as Cohen does not appear to be affiliated with the government of Russia and does not appear to have been a member of the Trump campaign.

Appear being the operative word here. Knowing Trump, Cohen probably did a ton of work for the campaign without ever officially signing up as a member. Shouldn't de facto involvement in the campaign be treated the same as de jure involvement?

All of that said, the SDNY looks worse here. It's likely their prosecutors could have acquired at least some of the desired documents (bank records, tax records, phone records) through subpoenas, for example.

I look it from a different perspective. The fact that they felt this intervention merited a raid, the fact that Rosenstein signed off on said raid, and the fact that a federal judge felt there was enough evidence to sign the warrant, all tell me that that whatever it is that the SDNY had must've been quite severe.

What I really want to know is if that evidence they used to get the warrant is what they got from Mueller as is, or if Mueller just tipped them off about something and they filled in the blanks with their own investigation.

 

[Limbo Pete]

@waiguoren's robot-like lack of imagination has been exposed ITT

 

[ShoelessRye]

I'll just keep copying and pasting this part from my prior reply and hope you can shed your ignorance on this.

WHAT THAT DOES NOT MEAN, is that if while investigating his limited mandate he finds a dead body or suspects any other crime, he does not point it out to the proper authorities and say 'hey maybe you should look into this and see if you think it needs to be pursued'.

Psssst - I was agreeing with you and supporting your argument.