Exposing the Grift: Go Woke Go Broke

[SuperAlly]

And I see the free market doesn't exist in your conception of mma and dancing. Genius.

For the analogy to be equivalent they couldn't exist. Genius.

 

[avenue94]

The fact you wrote this judgemental horseshit based on some nonsense you made up in your own head says more about you than the people you like to feel superior too.

Yeah, let's pretend that stuff like the extremes of Snyderverse fandom was normal behavior and not concerning parasocial relationships fed by social media and other societal ills.

Unfortunately you are much more of an imbecile than the genius intellect you have falsely assigned to yourself

I'd be concerned if anyone on sherdog thought they were a genius, let alone yours truly. Nice strawman though.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Side note about Cameron

He's made two of the biggest action film franchises of all time (Aliens, T2) feature women.

Strong women no less.

Which I understand today this would be considered, well, you know.

No those are actual strong women and good characters and you can compare those 2 to a lot of modern women's roles and actually see the problem .

Compare Sarah Connor to Rey from star wars and you can see it. Sarah Connor starts out a weak struggling mom with no weapons or survival skills and has to learn and be taught them by a man. Compare that to Luke and reys interactions or how she's just super bad ass for no reason and the different reactions to them make sense. The arch from point a to point b and the interactions with other characters and the how and the why make sense for 1 and not the other.

Rose and Sarah Connor have story archs , go through transformations , totally do need men's help and men to teach them things and are not super bad asses for no reason

No one had a problem with those characters back in the day because they are well written and aren't insufferable.

Woke is hard to define because it's kind of like the line on what is and isn't indecent. You know it when you see it and the less subtle something is the more obvious. Woke is when you start to feel beaten over the head by progressive politics and the message starts to outshine the movie and breaks the immersion

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

This part I am in 100% agreement. The entire premises of the thread was a fuck up.


To a large extent i would agree with this

But, I think it's pretty clear that the vast majority of entertainment made for woke reasons is trash.

Are Barbie, Wicked and Frozen woke? Not really. They are made for women, girls and homosexuals.

Trying to take a traditionally male dominated IP and turn it into something for women, girls and homosexuals is woke. Making Barbie for little girls who used to play with barbies isn't "going woke". It's catering to the established audience.

That's the dishonesty of the other side of this debate.

The phrase they are arguing against is "go woke, go broke".

Not "IPs traditionally marketed at women can't make money".

I think this is where tge contention abd frustration stems from. Woke gets thrown around constantly but no one can agree on what is and isn't woke. Because I remember people going ballistic over Barbie and both Frozen movies being woke. Same with a bunch of other "woke" properties. But as you said, you don't consider them woke.

Me personally, I say they definitely are. They hit all the same messages. They have the same agendas and energy. They just didn't suck like the new Star Wars trilogy.

No one can agree on what is and isn't woke so it boils down to "if bad is woke" which is so stupid. I think go woke go broke is fucking retarded because of this.

Pandering in general leads to shit products.

 

[SuperAlly]

“Yeah, let's pretend that stuff like the extremes of Snyderverse fandom was normal behavior and not concerning parasocial relationships fed by social media and other societal ills.

I'd be concerned if anyone on sherdog thought they were a genius, let alone yours truly. Nice strawman though.”

@avenue94 people are annoyed some hobby they are passionate about is now nothing like the original thing they were passionate about. A perfectly reasonable viewpoint.You twisted that into they derive their self worth from that thing. Only you know why you did that.

I could invent some messed up reason, kind of like what you did basically.

 

[avenue94]

“Yeah, let's pretend that stuff like the extremes of Snyderverse fandom was normal behavior and not concerning parasocial relationships fed by social media and other societal ills.

I'd be concerned if anyone on sherdog thought they were a genius, let alone yours truly. Nice strawman though.”

@avenue94 people are annoyed some hobby they are passionate about is now nothing like the original thing they were passionate about. A perfectly reasonable viewpoint.You twisted that into they derive their self worth from that thing. Only you know why you did that.

I could invent some messed up reason, kind of like what you did basically.

There is being annoyed that a character you like was in a shit movie or you don't like the casting, and then there is trolling, abusing people on the project, sending threats and otherwise overreacting.


One is within the bounds of normal human behavior, one isn't. And lol if you think some of these folks don't have incredibly unhealthy parasocial relationships with people who never met them and never will care an ounce about them. I suppose next you'll tell me sports hooliganism is totally normal and good societal conduct.

 

[SuperAlly]

I think this is where tge contention abd frustration stems from. Woke gets thrown around constantly but no one can agree on what is and isn't woke. Because I remember people going ballistic over Barbie and both Frozen movies being woke. Same with a bunch of other "woke" properties. But as you said, you don't consider them woke.

Me personally, I say they definitely are. They hit all the same messages. They have the same agendas and energy. They just didn't suck like the new Star Wars trilogy.

No one can agree on what is and isn't woke so it boils down to "if bad is woke" which is so stupid. I think go woke go broke is fucking retarded because of this.

Pandering in general leads to shit products.

There’s a lot of truth to what you say,

I don’t think it counters my point that a lot of what is getting called woke is just female IPs made for a female audience. Why all popular male IPs need to be redirected towards a mythical “female” audience that doesn’t exist is what is befuddling a lot of people.

Star Wars etc were a lot more popular when they were geared towards the original audience who made the thing popular. Trying to “sanitise” or reengineer traditionally male IPs for some mythical audience is creating the problem. It’s a dirty attempt by political activists to utilise IPs with an established fanbase to give greater air to their weird politics. And to again reiterate what avenue couldn’t see in my analogy before, the other big issue is they aren’t then giving that same old audience something else to enjoy from the franchise. Like now they don’t make modern woke Star Wars and newer Star Wars tv/films that feels like the old stuff. They largely just make the woke trash. A finite number of movies, films etc within each universe, each studio and IP. So people aren’t getting an option of newer stories that retains the spirit and feel of the originally popular stuff and/or the identity politics driven version. You mostly just get the latter.

So (largely) females and identity politics loving types get wicked, Barbie, the acolyte, modern Indians jones etc. and this group mostly just want the first 2, they aren’t (in large) interested in the latter 2. And the largely male demographic who were interested in old school Star Wars, Indiana etc get fuck all.. or the occasional Andor for example.

Why not keep it simple and just cater to the real audiences? Because the data shows there really isn’t an audience for the Acolyte, modern Disney marvel etc. nobody is winning or enjoying in the current scenario.

 

[SuperAlly]

Gibberish post is gibberish. Guess you hadn’t finished making a fool of yourself on this thread, merely took a sabbatical.

Imagine crying a couple of posts ago about “straw man arguments” and then writing this turd of a post here. Neatly ignoring the fact your earlier post of people’s identity’s being tied to a tv show or movie being a complete load of shit too.

You were better off when you retired from this thread in disgrace as Henry and deviant have.

There is being annoyed that a character you like was in a shit movie or you don't like the casting, and then there is trolling, abusing people on the project, sending threats and otherwise overreacting.


One is within the bounds of normal human behavior, one isn't. And lol if you think some of these folks don't have incredibly unhealthy parasocial relationships with people who never met them and never will care an ounce about them. I suppose next you'll tell me sports hooliganism is totally normal and good societal conduct.

 

[avenue94]

Gibberish post is gibberish. Guess you hadn’t finished making a fool of yourself on this thread, merely took a sabbatical.

Imagine crying a couple of posts ago about “straw man arguments” and then writing this turd of a post here. Neatly ignoring the fact your earlier of people’s identity’s being tied to a tv show or movie being a complete load of shit too.

You were better off when you retired from this thread in disgrace as Henry and deviant have.

What in tarnation are you even trying to say. You're your own biggest fan in the sense that no one understands what you're arguing or thinks it's coherent aside from yourself.

 

[ermac88]

No those are actual strong women and good characters and you can compare those 2 to a lot of modern women's roles and actually see the problem .

Compare Sarah Connor to Rey from star wars and you can see it. Sarah Connor starts out a weak struggling mom with no weapons or survival skills and has to learn and be taught them by a man. Compare that to Luke and reys interactions or how she's just super bad ass for no reason and the different reactions to them make sense. The arch from point a to point b and the interactions with other characters and the how and the why make sense for 1 and not the other.

Rose and Sarah Connor have story archs , go through transformations , totally do need men's help and men to teach them things and are not super bad asses for no reason

No one had a problem with those characters back in the day because they are well written and aren't insufferable.

Woke is hard to define because it's kind of like the line on what is and isn't indecent. You know it when you see it and the less subtle something is the more obvious. Woke is when you start to feel beaten over the head by progressive politics and the message starts to outshine the movie and breaks the immersion

It seems like you are projecting something that wasnt involved with anything I posted.

I only shared Cameron was a bit of a pioneer in casting strong women in lead roles of actions films.


Sounds like you are trying to define why Star Wars feels woke to you as opposed to Terminator 2?

I hear what you are trying to say, no offense it sounds silly to me.

Those movies are childish popcorn films that I couldnt imagine getting my feelings invested in the protagonist gender or "how much they need a man."

I mean star wars is a kids film for christs sake.

 

[ermac88]

What in tarnation are you even trying to say. You're your own biggest fan in the sense that no one understands what you're arguing or thinks it's coherent aside from yourself.

I cant decipher the majority of what he types. He reponds laughing at his own posts with gibberish, followed up by two to three separate and equally unintelligible posts laden with insults.

I dont want to sound mean, so I wont say what I think is really up and frankly, I can't fathom why hes so upset.

But ultimately, its likely a fruitless engagement.

 

[SuperAlly]

Marvel's Ironheart Likely Canceled, No Season 2 Hints Writer | Cosmic Book News

Ironheart flops on Disney+ with record-low ratings and Rotten Tomatoes score as writer hints a Season 2 depends on viewership, unlikely to happen.

cosmicbook.news

Another one in the “it’s not bad because it’s woke, it just happens to be woke and bad” bin?

Funny how many products share 2 things in common that are apparently in no way correlated

 

[SuperAlly]

What in tarnation are you even trying to say. You're your own biggest fan in the sense that no one understands what you're arguing or thinks it's coherent aside from yourself.

 

[SuperAlly]

Weird decision from Gunn to tell the world Superman is political and about an immigrant and make it sound like it's gonna be woke.

And then the usual faces are saying it is not.

But Gunn has likely damaged the box office to some degree already by attaching it to woke ideals it apparently doesn't really push.

Given how this turns off so many people, it seems like a stupid thing to do

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Weird decision from Gunn to tell the world Superman is political and about an immigrant and make it sound like it's gonna be woke.

And then the usual faces are saying it is not.

But Gunn has likely damaged the box office to some degree already by attaching it to woke ideals it apparently doesn't really push.

Given how this turns off so many people, it seems like a stupid thing to do

Haven't seen the movie yet. Immigrant superman? Is he raping anyone?

 

[Madmick]

Haven't seen the movie yet. Immigrant superman? Is he raping anyone?

Nobody was talking about this movie as "woke" before that interview. It doesn't have any of the typical hallmarks of a woke movie. This isn't coming from the audience. For some reason they're trying to manufacture this backlash where none exists.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Nobody was talking about this movie as "woke" before that interview. It doesn't have any of the typical hallmarks of a woke movie. This isn't coming from the audience. For some reason they're trying to manufacture this backlash where none exists.

you mean this clip?


i saw it a couple of days back and it just seemed so strange.
where the fuck did this line of thinking come from? seems astroturfed for political reasons (obviously) but more likely for generating controversy to get people to come to the movie.

 

[Madmick]

you mean this clip?


i saw it a couple of days back and it just seemed so strange.
where the fuck did this line of thinking come from? seems astroturfed for political reasons (obviously) but more likely for generating controversy to get people to come to the movie.

I"m referring to the below The Times interview. But yeah, he seems to be out there provoking this foodfight at every opportunity (so is his brother Sean who many will recognize for his role in the MCU as the awkward second-in-command of the Ravager crew who originally abducted Starlord, and who takes control of the special arrow wielded by Yondu with its robotic mohawk control unit):

James Gunn: Some people will take offence at my new Superman​

Prior to this interview, less than a week before the movie releases, there isn't a whiff of anyone talking about this movie as "woke". It's nonexistent. Go look. That's what I'm talking about with this manufactured controversy. It appears Gunn (and perhaps his peers at the studio) has calculated it may actually help the film since it is free marketing for a project that doesn't actually alienate the anti-woke majority because there is nothing inherently woke that would typically lead this majority to roll their eyes, and skip out on the movie.

 

[SuperAlly]

Ubisoft CEO Thinks Star Wars Outlaws Failed Because 'The Brand' Was Less Popular

In a recent shareholder meeting, Yves Guillemot suggested that Star Wars Outlaws failed to hit targets because the brand is less popular.

insider-gaming.com

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Ubisoft CEO Thinks Star Wars Outlaws Failed Because 'The Brand' Was Less Popular

In a recent shareholder meeting, Yves Guillemot suggested that Star Wars Outlaws failed to hit targets because the brand is less popular.

insider-gaming.com

Ubisoft also thinks micro transactions are a feature gamers want. So, grain of salt on that one.