Exposing the Grift: Go Woke Go Broke

[nixkid]

Ubisoft is a white guy? First, they're not. It's a company. Second, how would that be relevant? Third, wouldn't they have to be a "black guy" for the analogy to be symmetrical? Oof.
And they wrote the source material for the game 50 years ago?

Ubisoft is a western game developer which is what I said. You mentioned that Shogun was based on a novel and had a Japanese showrunner but failed to mention that the author was not Japanese. In the same way that Ubisoft is not Japanese.

A consultant who only provides feedback to ideas she doesn't author, who didn't create or pitch the project, and has no administrative authority over creative decisions, is an equivalent to a showrunning project creator?

First of all. A showrunner is not always a writer. The primary writers for Shogun were Rachel Kondo and Justin Marks (based on IMDB credits for each episode). Two people who are not Japanese. And they, obviously, had to to draw from the source material that was written by a white guy.

You mentioned Shogun's showrunner to try to give it authenticity but Shadows also had Japanese involvement. You don't know the role either of them played in the project other than that the title "showrunner" sounds fancier. For all you know, the showrunner could have been a DEI hire so that they could say that they had Japanese involvement and preempt criticism. After all, we should be as cynical as possible when non-white people are involved in creative projects right? That's the anti-woke view isn't it?

The people voicing discontent with the choice of the protagonist's race in Shadows have reasonably highlighted the strange choice of the first game in the franchise to feature feudal Japan to center upon a figure that wasn't Japanese.

First of all, you don't know that the story is centered upon Yasuke. There are two playable characters of which Yasuke is one.

Whats strange about that? What is the relevance of it being "their first game" set in feudal JapanThat's no more strange than FX deciding to bankroll a story with a white guy as their first TV show set in feudal Japan.

Their grievance there isn't one of narrative. You don't have to wait until the game arrives to see what the game is to object to that fact. It was declared in promotional material. Leftists who decry this pushback can shut right the fuck up. They're the ones who spent the last half century laying precedent for this logic. They're the ones who argued that inclusion itself, the very presence or absence of race, when it doesn't reflect the reality of a population's demographics, is grounds for moral judgement of a work of art, and the artist's biases.

This makes sense of why those people are upset. The strange choice of racewashing here against the overwhelming demographic baseline isn't an isolated incident. The #woke entertainment industry has been in hyperdrive with these decisions for the past 8 years.

How can Shadows be an example of race washing while Shogun isn't? They could have told any story about feudal Japan. Why did they decide to tell one that features white Europeans? That's a deliberate choice in the same way that featuring a black African in feudal Japan is.

 

[Madmick]

He said its a western dev, not a white guy lol

Anyway carry on.

 

[Jon!]

 

[Madmick]

You aren't required to. The substance of that point is the analogy is inappropriate, because Ubisoft isn't a white man, as I explicitly mentioned, not that Nix was under the mistaken impression that Ubisoft, a corporation, is a literal white man. I afford him that much credit. You didn't really think that one through, did you?

How can Shadows be an example of race washing while Shogun isn't? They could have told any story about feudal Japan. Why did they decide to tell one that features white Europeans? That's a deliberate choice in the same way that featuring a black African in feudal Japan is.

Because the story is partly about the European endeavor to exploitatively plunder Japan, as the company to which the white protagonist belonged was the precursor to the Dutch East India company, and about how European meddling in the country, between both the European royalties and the Catholic church that sought a foothold there, played a role in the nation's history.

The protagonist isn't there to represent a Japanese champion. He is explicitly there to contrast the values and ideas of the Western mind. He is also on a quest of ulterior motive. He's a symbol of western interference who instead as a man chose to side with his Japanese lord. Do you understand what "racewashing" means? Don't waste time trying to say you do, you obviously don't.

Yet again, all of this is irrelevant. The novel was written nearly 50 years ago, it's not a game, and it isn't part of the AC franchise where the general role of the protagonist-player relationship is long established. Again, analogies clearly aren't your strong suit.

 

[nixkid]

You aren't required to. The substance of that point is the analogy is inappropriate, because Ubisoft isn't a white man, as I explicitly mentioned, not that Nix was under the mistaken impression that Ubisoft, a corporation, is a literal white man. I afford him that much credit. You didn't really think that one through, did you?

No, you don't understand the point of the comparison which is that neither the story of Shogun nor Shadows originates in Japan. They are both Western stories about Japan. You mentioned the Japanese showrunner and excluded the western origin of the novel to try to paint it as being more Japanese.

Because the story is partly about the European endeavor to exploitatively plunder Japan, as the company to which the white protagonist belonged was the precursor to the Dutch East India company, and about how European meddling in the country, between both the European royalties and the Catholic church that sought a foothold there, played a role in the nation's history.

The protagonist isn't there to represent a Japanese champion. He is explicitly there to contrast the values and ideas of the Western mind. He is also on a quest of ulterior motive. He's a symbol of western interference who instead as a man chose to side with his Japanese lord. Do you understand what "racewashing" means? Don't waste time trying to say you do, you obviously don't.

Yet again, all of this is irrelevant. The novel was written nearly 50 years ago, it's not a game, and it isn't part of the AC franchise where the general role of the protagonist-player relationship is long established. Again, analogies clearly aren't your strong suit.

Irrelevant to the point. At best, this just means that Madmick likes the themes of Shogun more than the perceived (because again, you HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME YET so anything you say about Shadows is speculation) themes of Shadows. Cool story. I haven't played Shadows, the game could very well suck. The story could very well suck. Given Ubisoft's history, the smart money is probably on it not being mediocre at best. But that is simply a matter of execution.

There is nothing inherently wrong with telling a story based in Japan that involves Yasuke. And there is no way to attack that premise without also being against the premise of telling a Japanese story that involves a fictional white character based on William Adams.

 

[AWilder]

Lol, classic mick

 

[deviake]

You aren't required to. The substance of that point is the analogy is inappropriate, because Ubisoft isn't a white man, as I explicitly mentioned, not that Nix was under the mistaken impression that Ubisoft, a corporation, is a literal white man. I afford him that much credit. You didn't really think that one through, did you?

Because the story is partly about the European endeavor to exploitatively plunder Japan, as the company to which the white protagonist belonged was the precursor to the Dutch East India company, and about how European meddling in the country, between both the European royalties and the Catholic church that sought a foothold there, played a role in the nation's history.

The protagonist isn't there to represent a Japanese champion. He is explicitly there to contrast the values and ideas of the Western mind. He is also on a quest of ulterior motive. He's a symbol of western interference who instead as a man chose to side with his Japanese lord. Do you understand what "racewashing" means? Don't waste time trying to say you do, you obviously don't.

Yet again, all of this is irrelevant. The novel was written nearly 50 years ago, it's not a game, and it isn't part of the AC franchise where the general role of the protagonist-player relationship is long established. Again, analogies clearly aren't your strong suit.

 

[Andy Capp]

They didn't care about Shogun either.

The same people pretending to care about Yasuke "taking away the opportunity for there to be a male Asian lead" completely ignore Shogun - a recent TV show set in feudal Japan with a white male lead.

Any complaint about Shogun being about a white person exposes a complete lack of understanding of the story and historical context of, first the novel, then the TV mini-series, and then however the more contemporary version is classed.

The James Clavell novel is about a white European who gets shipwrecked in Japan. What are producers supposed to change about that? Make him Japanese? lol

Edit: "Shogun is a work of historical fiction based upon the power struggle between the successors of Toyotomi Hideyoshi that led to the founding of the Tokugawa shogunate. Clavell based each character on a historical figure, but changed their names in order to add narrative deniability to the story.[1]"

 

[AWilder]

chatgpt is more compelling than madmick, change my mind.

 

[Hog-train]

No one complained about white guys being samurai or starring in samurai movies but a black dude who was a real person is a problem. Not a good look no matter how you spin it. It took 20+ pages for you guys to vaguely acknowledge that everyone in this thread has been shitting on Ubisoft and explaining why they suck.

Bro - Shit like this is corny. No one likes it.

Conservative media guys like Ben Shapiro and William had meltdowns over fucking Barbie. You can't make this shit up. Even conservative and apolitical people have commented ON THIS FORUM that William's constant ID politics get old.

Facts over feelings sweetie. Enjoy your peloton class.

Agree that these girfters are corny AF too.

 

[Hog-train]

Two things can be true at once. All those Nerdrotic type shows are repetitive, corny rage bait mining grifters AND there is dumb woke shit constantly being churned out.

Jada Pinkett Smith produced a Cleopatra DOCUMENTARY that blackwashed it so bad Egypt literally sued Netflix. That is peak woke.

 

[Loiosh]

Why am I not surprised this thread has passed six hundred posts?

Angry straight white guys trying to stamp out anything that wasn't made specifically for THEM.

Plenty of terrible projects are created regularly but if one shows a whisker of inclusion, it's a phenomenon.

 

[nixkid]

Any complaint about Shogun being about a white person exposes a complete lack of understanding of the story and historical context of, first the novel, then the TV mini-series, and then however the more contemporary version is classed.

The James Clavell novel is about a white European who gets shipwrecked in Japan. What are producers supposed to change about that? Make him Japanese? lol

Edit: "Shogun is a work of historical fiction based upon the power struggle between the successors of Toyotomi Hideyoshi that led to the founding of the Tokugawa shogunate. Clavell based each character on a historical figure, but changed their names in order to add narrative deniability to the story.[1]"

Thats not the point though. The point is that there are some people pretending to be against including Yasuke in a game set in feudal Japan because they contend that stories involving feudal Japan should revolve around only Japanese people. Yet, they have no problem with Shogun. The execs that green lit Shogun, could have green lit a show set in feudal Japan that featured only Japanese characters in the same way that Ubisoft could have excluded Yasuke from its game. So what is the difference? So far we've gotten half ass arguments from madmick like "but Shogun is based on a 50 year old book!" (not relevant), "but its Ubisoft's first game set in Japan" (who cares?), and "I like the themes in Shogun better" (that is personal preference).

The point is. If its okay to do a story like Shogun then its okay to do a story with Yasuke.

 

[deviake]

Two things can be true at once. All those Nerdrotic type shows are repetitive, corny rage bait mining grifters AND there is dumb woke shit constantly being churned out.

Jada Pinkett Smith produced a Cleopatra DOCUMENTARY that blackwashed it so bad Egypt literally sued Netflix. That is peak woke.

Bro - Shit like this is corny. No one likes it.

Agree that these girfters are corny AF too.

Haha whatever that is it looks corny as fuck. You left out the queen of England show or whatever.

The overall point is that a lot of things that can be described as "woke" are all over the place; some being corny shit like that, others seeing a lot of mainstream success that have things like race and gender swaps or are trying to tell a story - directly or allegorically - about XYZ groups' struggles and whatnot. And that's not counting all the shitty stuff that comes out that no one mentions the politics of.

Then, of course, you have shit like what you mentioned lol, or people who put out dog shit saying people who didn't like it don't like gay/dark skinned/womenfolk. The thing is, when they make dog shit though, whatever the agenda, people of varying politics collectively don't like it. Recent Star Wars is a great example.

Then there's the comical overreactions like this Assassin's Creed, where people jump to conclusions, meanwhile the rest of us are like, "bro, it's not that deep."

 

[deviake]

chatgpt is more compelling than madmick, change my mind.

Mickelson vs chatgpt is a battle I'd watch. Chatgpt by decision

 

[AWilder]

Why am I not surprised this thread has passed six hundred posts?

Angry straight white guys trying to stamp out anything that wasn't made specifically for THEM.

Plenty of terrible projects are created regularly but if one shows a whisker of inclusion, it's a phenomenon.

what blows my mind is there is a whole ecosystem of angry white dorks on youtube, ticktock, twitter, etc. that do nothing but cry about anyone non-white playing a role in any media. It's incredibly cringe.

 

[nixkid]

what blows my mind is there is a whole ecosystem of angry white dorks on youtube, ticktock, twitter, etc. that do nothing but cry about anyone non-white playing a role in any media. It's incredibly cringe.

They are crying about Ghost of Yotei now. I guess because the main character is a female and the voice actor is a lesbian or something (not the character itself, the voice actor). I don't even know, its hard to keep up with the outrage machine at this point. Its just funny because they tried to weaponize Ghost of Tsushima against Shadows to attack Ubisoft and now they've turned against Sucker Punch too.

Just goes to show, you can't keep the anti-woke mob happy for long. They are a fickle bunch.

 

[TheGreatA]

Let's face the facts, the stuff that went "broke" was usually garbage anyway. They were not good games or movies, regardless of any "anti-woke" backlash. There was never a world where a game like Concord was going to be a success. It was a shit game, the ugly "woke" aesthetics/narratives only added to that problem.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

Then there's the comical overreactions like this Assassin's Creed, where people jump to conclusions, meanwhile the rest of us are like, "bro, it's not that deep."

You do understand the state of triple AAA gaming?

Bro - Shit like this is corny. No one likes it.

Box Office Mojo says it made more than 300 million. 170 mil in China it was probably not one of those CCP boosted the numbers movies, you make it sound like it is an obscure PureFlix movie.

Angry straight white guys trying to stamp out anything that wasn't made specifically for THEM.

Like when they protested the latest Bad Boys movie, or when there was a comic series based around a female protagonist in Knight Errant or when they went to the streets to protest Lando getting a book trilogy in the 80s. or when the protested Sacred Games from Netflix, hunger strike for a week.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

Let's face the facts, the stuff that went "broke" was usually garbage anyway.

They only wrecked Stsr Wars and almost all of Star trek....

LOTR also had a bad reputation...