Ex cops take on why Herman was wrong on almost all accounts

[myjohnson9]

-Ex-Cop explains why Herman put himself in this situation and breaks it down showing understanding of both sides of the incident.

-Sherdog posters come out of the wood works with their social commentary and dime store opinions on the law, policing and civil rights then proceed to argue with ex-cop.


Oh, sherdog, how I love you. You are like that predictable safe whore I call when I'm drunk.

Yes! ^^

TS seems like a pretty level headed guy. I don't feel Herman deserved all that but I can agree with pretty much everything in the OP

 

[cleetus]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Dumbass won himself a tazing.

Telling a cop to show him ID? That's fucking retarded. The uniform, badge, the police car with lights, the fact that if they were "fake" they probably wouldn't have continued following the asshole for 3 miles, all factor into how utterly asinine Herman is. Maybe the beatings he took in the octagon knocked out any common sense he might've once had.

The wife needs a slap across the maw as well. Where's war machine?

 

[jeremyemilio]

Hey guys. Ex cop of 10 years in Atlanta. Just my two cents from cops perspective.

- driving to a well lit area is OK. Just be EXTRA compliant when you do stop because most people dont do that. Best case...call 911 while driving. The dispatcher can confirm that their cop is stopping you and tell the cop what you are doing.

- Cops are required to identify themselves. Uniform and badge are part of that. However...they are NOT required to let you get close to them to see their ID card. Thats close enough to grab them. And they dont know you....who knows...you may be a pro MMA fighter right?

- If like his wife you demand MORE ID than a badge and uniform and marked car....think about this: how hard is it to make a fake ID card? Any college kid with a printer can. Fake badges and uniforms and cars..much harder. So Hermans ID rant is kinda silly.

- Getting out of the car isnt illegal. Many older people do this. Some see it as respectful. However...cops consider "Totality of circumstances". Not stopping for 3 miles combined with a very big and athletic looking guy exiting the car...and using a tactic common with the Sovereign Citizen movement of demanding ID to challenge authority (who have murdered many cops lately)....all together puts the cops on high alert.



Herman wasnt doing anything that wrong. But...his actions put cops on high alert even if he didnt realize it. I doubt Herman had any intent to harm them at all. But they had no idea why he was acting that way or who he was. And in fact...if he wanted to be...he would be an extremely dangerous man because of his abilities alone much less his raw size. Thats why they werent letting him get close to him.


Did they charge him with some stuff that was maybe a bit more than he deserved? Maybe. Im not familiar with Indiana law or how the statute reads. But I typically dont like heightened charges for someone who wasnt doing a serious crime to begin with...which it appears Herman wasnt.

But that said...be smart. Cops arent playing around with their own safety and they have NO CLUE who you are or what you are doing or planning to do.

Only cops use that line of reasoning. No one else. Only cops.

Psych doctors don't, even though they deal with dangerous people every day. Teachers don't even though they often find themselves dealing with dangerous people. Pastors and social workers and volunteers at the soup kitchen don't, even though they find themselves working with dangerous people. Only cops.

And even putting dangerous people aside, a lot of people have more dangerous jobs than cops.

A fisherman is far more likely to end up dead during a shift than a cop is.

But fishermen don't panic and act all scared shitless and go into emergency mode and drop the life-rafts and fire off the flare and call out an S.O.S. and abandon ship every time the wind comes up or they get hit with a big wave because "Hey, the sea is unpredictable and we wanna make it home to our families alive."

Only cops do that.

That being said, they didn't shoot him... or his dog. Which is a feel good twist, I suppose.

 

[rocketskates]

I must be missing some news because I have not heard of these guys, or their murders.

Can you elaborate?

They have a bunch of videos out there advocating violence against LEOs. Also, there is a dash cam footage where two West Memphis Arkansas cops were killed by sovereigns. The sovereigns then died in shoutout with police.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Dumbass won himself a tazing.

Telling a cop to show him ID? That's fucking retarded. The uniform, badge, the police car with lights, the fact that if they were "fake" they probably wouldn't have continued following the asshole for 3 miles, all factor into how utterly asinine Herman is. Maybe the beatings he took in the octagon knocked out any common sense he might've once had.

The wife needs a slap across the maw as well. Where's war machine?

Meh.

They're charging him with battery because they tazed him. But HE's asinine.

They refuse to show their licence, because it has they're address on it, even though a third piece of ID is required by law, and then they turn around, right after that, and ask her to show them her license, which one would presume has her address on it as well. But SHE's the one who needs a slap.

 

[ProBoxingInsidr]

well to be fair, dont cops believe the people are ALWAYS wrong every time? i mean there is virtually nothing a cop can do to someone that other cops wont defend, so honestly who cares about what a cop thinks about what happened?

 

[Jack Handy jr]

People just need to learn to keep their emotions in check. Dr Spock and this newfangled hippie ways of do what ever you want in rearing kids is causing a lot of the mess were seeing with these negative police encounters, and workplace tumult. Some adults got to do whatever and say whatever to their parents growing up and think because they got to get away with disrespecting their parents they can do the same to police, or random persons in the street.

That basic ability to control ones impulses can get you killed. or in Ed's case electrocuted. but the sin of Pride is the one we all suffer from and what Solomon said god hates most of all. And with out the rod of correction at an early age people turn into self centered lil Demi gods. Oh well such is life.

 

[Gandhi]

Sovereign citizen = fail at life

 

[AlucardNatasrd]

Hey guys. Ex cop of 10 years in Atlanta. Just my two cents from cops perspective.

- driving to a well lit area is OK. Just be EXTRA compliant when you do stop because most people dont do that. Best case...call 911 while driving. The dispatcher can confirm that their cop is stopping you and tell the cop what you are doing.

- Cops are required to identify themselves. Uniform and badge are part of that. However...they are NOT required to let you get close to them to see their ID card. Thats close enough to grab them. And they dont know you....who knows...you may be a pro MMA fighter right?

- If like his wife you demand MORE ID than a badge and uniform and marked car....think about this: how hard is it to make a fake ID card? Any college kid with a printer can. Fake badges and uniforms and cars..much harder. So Hermans ID rant is kinda silly.

- Getting out of the car isnt illegal. Many older people do this. Some see it as respectful. However...cops consider "Totality of circumstances". Not stopping for 3 miles combined with a very big and athletic looking guy exiting the car...and using a tactic common with the Sovereign Citizen movement of demanding ID to challenge authority (who have murdered many cops lately)....all together puts the cops on high alert.



Herman wasnt doing anything that wrong. But...his actions put cops on high alert even if he didnt realize it. I doubt Herman had any intent to harm them at all. But they had no idea why he was acting that way or who he was. And in fact...if he wanted to be...he would be an extremely dangerous man because of his abilities alone much less his raw size. Thats why they werent letting him get close to him.


Did they charge him with some stuff that was maybe a bit more than he deserved? Maybe. Im not familiar with Indiana law or how the statute reads. But I typically dont like heightened charges for someone who wasnt doing a serious crime to begin with...which it appears Herman wasnt.

But that said...be smart. Cops arent playing around with their own safety and they have NO CLUE who you are or what you are doing or planning to do.

Are cops required, by law, to provide there forms of ID? I was not able to find ANYTHING to say that was so, and I assume it is not.

 

[j98]

Meh.

They're charging him with battery because they tazed him. But HE's asinine.

They refuse to show their licence, because it has they're address on it, even though a third piece of ID is required by law, and then they turn around, right after that, and ask her to show them her license, which one would presume has her address on it as well. But SHE's the one who needs a slap.

He battered the taser prongs with his chest, much like how cops,when punching a subdued suspect will charge them with assaulting their fists with their face.

 

[jeremyemilio]

People just need to learn to keep their emotions in check. Dr Spock and this newfangled hippie ways of do what ever you want in rearing kids is causing a lot of the mess were seeing with these negative police encounters, and workplace tumult. Some adults got to do whatever and say whatever to their parents growing up and think because they got to get away with disrespecting their parents they can do the same to police, or random persons in the street.

That basic ability to control ones impulses can get you killed. or in Ed's case electrocuted. but the sin of Pride is the one we all suffer from and what Solomon said god hates most of all. And with out the rod of correction at an early age people turn into self centered lil Demi gods. Oh well such is life.

From all of the video evidence, it's pretty clear that it's the cops who showed disrespect and had trouble keeping their emotions in check. It's hard to understand how anyone could watch that and see it the other way around.

Oh well such is life.

 

[flanellograf]

From all of the video evidence, it's pretty clear that it's the cops who showed disrespect and had trouble keeping their emotions in check. It's hard to understand how anyone could watch that and see it the other way around.

Oh well such is life.

Maybe they overreacted a bit, but then they are the ones putting their lives at risk every day.

 

[jeremyemilio]

It was more than just getting out of the car. While that might have been a mistake, I'm sure it didn't help that he was acting in a rather aggressive manner, refusing to accept that the guys were cops. And the thing is, even if they weren't cops, they're armed, so what the hell is he going to do about it? His demeanor didn't make a lot of sense.

And the other thing is usually when I see a police car, I don't think "there's a fake police car". Usually when someone is pretending ot be a cop they have a normal car with a light in the window or something. They don't have an outright fake police car. Talk about paranoid.

This word keeps coming up. I find it a very strange word for what I saw. Either your definition of 'aggressive' is a lot different from mine (and Webster's) or your inexplicably internalizing the language of the police.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Maybe they overreacted a bit, but then they are the ones putting their lives at risk every day.

I've already addressed this... so I'm not gonna reinvent the wheel, here:

A fisherman is far more likely to end up dead during a shift than a cop is.

But fishermen don't panic and act all scared shitless and go into emergency mode and drop the life-rafts and fire off the flare and call out an S.O.S. and abandon ship every time the wind comes up or they get hit with a big wave because "Hey, the sea is unpredictable and we wanna make it home to our families alive."

Only cops do that.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Hermans an idiot and got dealt with.

 

[flanellograf]

I've already addressed this... so I'm not gonna reinvent the wheel, here:

Could you make sillier and more irrelevant analogies if you tried? My point stands.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Could you make sillier and more irrelevant analogies if you tried? My point stands.

Naw. It's a dumb point. Cops aren't 'putting their lives on the line' nearly as often as they pretend. They don't even make the top 10 most dangerous jobs. But every time they do something wrong, they want to fall back on the myth that they're out there dodging bullets all day.

They aren't. They mostly make routine stops. And when stops aren't so routine, they rarely end up in any real danger. But, yes, there's a worse case scenario that comes with being a cop, just as there is a worse case scenario that comes with pretty much every job.

But only cops are given a pass (by some people) to just jump to worst case scenario mode every time something doesn't go exactly as planned. If we all did that the world would be chaos... as chaotic as modern day policing has become.

 

[nhbbear]

Only cops use that line of reasoning. No one else. Only cops.

Psych doctors don't, even though they deal with dangerous people every day. Teachers don't even though they often find themselves dealing with dangerous people. Pastors and social workers and volunteers at the soup kitchen don't, even though they find themselves working with dangerous people. Only cops.

And even putting dangerous people aside, a lot of people have more dangerous jobs than cops.

A fisherman is far more likely to end up dead during a shift than a cop is.

But fishermen don't panic and act all scared shitless and go into emergency mode and drop the life-rafts and fire off the flare and call out an S.O.S. and abandon ship every time the wind comes up or they get hit with a big wave because "Hey, the sea is unpredictable and we wanna make it home to our families alive."

Only cops do that.

That being said, they didn't shoot him... or his dog. Which is a feel good twist, I suppose.

The whole commercial fishing argument is such garbage. It's a matter of accidental deaths vs violent murders. Almost three quarters of the deaths from commercial fishing are from vessel disasters, meaning the entire crew is lost. The next highest category is usually falling overboard.

The numbers are relatively low, but so is the total number of persons in the commercial fishing industry-so every death weighs heavily on the stats that are used to determine the most dangerous jobs. There is an average of around 60 deaths per year with around 50k fisherman. They use the average per 100,000 to determine the number and for fishing, it is usually around 120 per 100k.

The number of police men killed every year is almost always over 100 in the last 15 years, and will range widely because of events like 9/11 or police officers being targeted. There are around 600k police officers in the US. That number also depends on whether armed security or auxiliary police are counted.

So the rate for fishermen dying is high, but the manner in which they die is vastly different. Both sides die either way, but the ocean and weather are not actively trying to kill fishermen. There is no fucking marlin leaping out of the water trying to skewer the fisherman.

The police face that prospect with greater frequency as of late. Fishing deaths are also accidental. Most police deaths(non accident) are murder. Big difference.


And Herman getting out of the car, acting like a sovereign citizen after what was assumed at that point to have been a pursuit. He was speeding with no lights-with his wife and kid in the car. Yet, we are supposed to believe he drove three miles because he was concerned for their safety. Had he stayed in the car and not tried to act like such a goof, he would have been fine. He could have pulled his bogus three id trick and he still would have been fine. But he did it out of the car, before giving any reason as to why he felt he did not need to stop.


Oh, and It's not a psych doc, or teacher's, soup kitchen staff, or pastor's job to arrest, fight, or try to control the dangerous people. That's why they call the cops. The bad guys don't go after the other positions mentioned, not do those jobs require direct conflict with the truly dangerous persons. The police have been placed in an adversarial role with the worst in society, and they are the buffer that will deal with these people when there is a problem. Internet tough guys that say they don't need the police sure as fuck never do anything. They don't respond to shootings, robberies, active shootings-they call the cops like everyone else.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

Are cops required, by law, to provide there forms of ID? I was not able to find ANYTHING to say that was so, and I assume it is not.

Nope.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

And LOL at the fisherman comparison.

Now, if you wanna talk cop vs. big wave surfer you might have a case.