Donald Trump risks China rift with Taiwan call

[steelcity77]

Oh like when Trump met Obama he cucked out and said:

"Mr. President, it was a great honor being with you and I look forward to being with you many, many more times"

And then when the Pakistani PM released his their private correspondence, Trump was quoted speaking like a servant:

"I am ready and willing to play any role that you want me to play to address and find solutions to the outstanding problems. It will be an honour and I will personally do it. Feel free to call me any time even before 20th January that is before I assume my office,"

This guy is a spineless bitch when face to face with world leaders!

yeah I call bullshit on that .. wtf would he be telling the pakistani president 'i'm ready and willing to play any role that you want' ..

as for his meeting with obama .. that's what trump does .. he pours on the compliments and charm .. that's just what he does .. especially if he's in your house .. he's cool like that .. but don't mistake that for weakness .. the guy is hanging out with romney .. he just knows how to deal with all types of people, including enemies

 

[no fat chicks]

Trump's looking for trouble.

This is the same as supporting the independence of Puerto Rico or Hawaii

No it's not

 

[Squarechoke]

OK, sure. I was wrong. I'll admit it.

You man enough to admit you are going to be outnumbered in your own country?

Here, you can play with the numbers. Polygamy will be an interesting factor too. And don't forget to do a separate calculation for migrants that will continue to enter your country via immigration.

http://www.miniwebtool.com/exponential-growth-calculator/

I'm willing to bet in your country of 10 million people, you'll be outnumbered by the turn of the century and your government will be replaced with an Islamic theocracy.


Here are some facts to think about.



The Muslim population in Europe also is growing; we project 10% of all Europeans will be Muslims by 2050.

Muslims are younger than other Europeans. In 2010, the median age of Muslims throughout Europe was 32, eight years younger than the median for all Europeans (40). By contrast, the median age of religiously unaffiliated people in Europe, including atheists, agnostics and those with no religion in particular, was 37. The median age of European Christians was 42.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/19/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/

You don't have any other choice since I proved it to be false. It's ridiculous that I had to call you out on it before you acknowledged that though. What kind of person is that afraid of being wrong as an adult? And given what a huge failure of source criticism that was, as the truth was so easy to be found, why would I assume that you have done any better job with anything else? You've undermined yourself completely.

You also display a weird view on facts, given that you put my definitive facts on equal grounds to your speculation (otherwise there's nothing to admit, if it's not a 100% fact). If that was the case everyone would predict that, but they are not, and of course because there's so many factors to it. You've explained nothing about the (lack of, in your view) effect of the far right movement in Europe, etc. You've hilariously enough just given a link to the simple exponential growth formula (cute that you think I needed that to calculate exponential growth). I'll definitely not buy any opinion you present as you've shown yourself to be very bad at handling facts and you're clearly not educated enough to analyze this subject, which is amply shown by that you've consistently presented very shallow and incomplete reasoning on the topic. As per usual, as tests have seen, it's the ignorant that think that they know the most, because they haven't understood the complexity of what they talk about. I remain open in my view on this issue as I'm well aware that it's not within my realm of education, and even those that are experts struggle to agree on it.

 

[Rod1]

Oh yes...the big bad Xi Jinping!

We'll see a lot of leaders around the world aren't as tough as Mr. Apology Tour Obama made them seem.

Again, the stupid, simplistic rethoric is meaningless.

Taiwan and China are far closer to each other than they are to the US both culturally, geographically and economically.

Taiwan depends on its exports, and over 30% of its exports go to China which account for like half of its GDP, not to mention that Taiwanese investments in China account for around 25-30% of their GDP.

So its not like all Taiwanese want to stick it to China, in the end a confrontation between China and Taiwan would be incredibly costly for Taiwan and specially costly for the US if it decided to back Taiwan. This isnt the 60s.

Would the US support Taiwan should it decide to declare independence? I seriously doubt so, and i dont think most Taiwanese would be in the boat to see their wealthy nation economy be turn into disarray.

Economic integration between asian nations and China keeps growing at a pace that eventually these nations will be rather dealing with their neighbour which shares closer cultural and geographical ties than with the USA. Thats a reality.

The current status quo is the norm for a reason, the US will defend Taiwan, but its up to them and China to solve their political differences.

At this point the US is barging into a couples quarrel, thats not a good thing for neither party involved, because in the end you would probably get shit on by both sides.

Once the RCEP passes after the scrapping of the TPP its going to be game over for US interests in the east, China will take over as the regional hegemon due to the sheer size and importance of its economy.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

China can be prickly, but they're not stupid. Why risk an unnecessary increase in tensions (during an already tense period) over the sake of a phone call received by a US president-to-be that the entire world is aware is politically unrefined, and whose exact character and temperament is still a matter of some speculation?

Chinese leadership is a little more sophisticated, and their interests more global than those of the average MENA nation. I think it'll take a wee bit more than this to dictate the tenor of US-China relations going forward.

 

[Gunny]

Again, anyone who actually thinks Trump knew the real ramifications of what he was doing is delusional. This type of thing is why Trump offered John Kasich control of all domestic and foreign policy if Kasich would run as his VP (when Kasich asked what Trump would actually do then, he was told "Trump will make America great again" ). Because Trump is a great figurehead, who knows nothing about actual policy...especially foreign.

Fuck, the guy already tweeted saying "All I did was take a phone call". He wasn't making some huge geopolitical statement against China here.

He had no idea what he was doing, because he's woefully unprepared for the job.

But hey, that's why he won, right?

You were saying...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html?client=safari

 

[BeardotheWeirdo]

http://exclaim.ca/music/article/poll_finds_donald_trump_more_disliked_than_nickelback

 

[PolishHeadlock]

I dont disagree with stopping China from making Taiwan another Hong Kong.

But do you think Trump will actually shift policy or is he just stirring the pot and then backing out leaving Taiwan alone if the cost becomes too insurmountable?

After all Taiwan does kinda needs of China, after all its not like the US is known for not throwing allies under the bus once things get too difficult for them (Kurds, Vietnamese, moderate rebels etc etc).

What i mean, is this really Trump standing up to China, or is this Trump not really accepting he broke protocol? in the first one i agree with him up to a point, in the second one its quite infantile of him.

Foreign policy is where Trump always scared me most.

If he really fucks up the tax codes, regulation etc... That can all be reversed quickly when the next President takes over in 4 years.

But treaties, multinational trade agreements, unwritten rules between hostile parties.... He could do damage that last decades or that can't be reversed.

 

[Gregolian]

It feels really weird how the people (not necessarily Sherdoggers but I'm talking pundits) will preach for a 2 state-solution in Israel but when it comes to Taiwan and Trump acknowledging they have their own government they act like the world is about to end.

 

[Rod1]

You were saying...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html?client=safari

Good to see the neocon machinery is well-oiled and kicking.

\

 

[revoltub]

americans cucking to the chinese

 

[Rod1]

It feels really weird how the people (not necessarily Sherdoggers but I'm talking pundits) will preach for a 2 state-solution in Israel but when it comes to Taiwan and Trump acknowledging they have their own government they act like the world is about to end.

Because Taiwan for the most part has supported the one China policy too. They are probably waiting for the winds of change to set on China before trying to move for reunification.

 

[Gregolian]

Because Taiwan for the most part has supported the one China policy too. They are probably waiting for the winds of change to set on China before trying to move for reunification.

Maybe it's the Japanese portion of my brain or something but I can't help but wish people would STOP walking around on eggshells when it has to do with China.

Like, telling them to fuck off and stick it would be nice once in awhile.

 

[Rod1]

Maybe it's the Japanese portion of my brain or something but I can't help but wish people would STOP walking around on eggshells when it has to do with China.

Like, telling them to fuck off and stick it would be nice once in awhile.

People walk on eggshells when it has to do with America too, you kinda need to accomodate larger countries more than you need to accomodate smaller countries.

Which is why i find the whole anti-EU sentiment in Europe to be ridiculous, these nations are soon going to wane into irrelevance in the larger scheme of things if they dont band up together.

 

[Gunny]

Good to see the neocon machinery is well-oiled and kicking.

\

That's just some bitter salt right there. It's ok for you to occasionally admit he did a good thing. Doing so would you make you seem more genuine and thoughtful. It doesn't mean you have to like him in total.

 

[Rod1]

That's just some bitter salt right there. It's ok for you to occasionally admit he did a good thing. Doing so would you make you seem more genuine and thoughtful. It doesn't mean you have to like him in total.

Letting Bolton dictate foreing policy is not a good thing, in any universe whatsoever.

Also i was commenting on the nature of the article, which is pretty much the same tune that they were singing on the eve of the Iraqi invasion (UN security council cant tell the president of the US what to do, we are going in on our own, coalition of the willing!!! USA, USA, USA).

Again, im not against Taiwanese independence, im merely wary of whether the neocons are sincere and whether they are willing to help Taiwan get its independence.

Considering the tune of isolationism, and America first, i doubt they would be willing to shed another few trillions to save Taiwan from the fallout.

Anyway this is what basically it boils down to for neocons.

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2001_05/taiwan

 

[IBeLurkin]

You were saying...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html?client=safari

Yes, hindsight is 20/20, and it's pretty much a summary of what's already been discussed in this thread.

I'll believe it was some part of a masterplan when he normalizes relations with Taiwan. Until then, it's he said/she said. Given Trump's "vast" foreign policy knowledge and previous blunders, I'm not about to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Gunny]

Yes, hindsight is 20/20, and it's pretty much a summary of what's already been discussed in this thread.

I'll believe it was some part of a masterplan when he normalizes relations with Taiwan. Until then, it's he said/she said. Given Trump's "vast" foreign policy knowledge and previous blunders, I'm not about to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It wasn't 20/20 hindsight for those of us who've been paying attention to Trump's position on China for years and looking forward to a president who willing to play hardball to put our interests first. To us this looks like the expected framing job that comes ahead of future negotiations. It's not the end goal but it represents the US staking out an assertive stance. All I want to say is - understand that this is the stuff Obama voters in the rust belt were looking for when they flipped for Trump.

 

[Rod1]

It wasn't 20/20 hindsight for those of us who've been paying attention to Trump's position on China for years and looking forward to a president who willing to play hardball to put our interests first. To us this looks like the expected framing job that comes ahead of future negotiations. It's not the end goal but it represents the US staking out an assertive stance. All I want to say is - understand that this is the stuff Obama voters in the rust belt were looking for when they flipped for Trump.

Trump position on China is that they are devaluing their currency, which is in direct opposition to reality (China is trying to strengthen the Yuan).

With that alone, i can safely say that Trump has absolutely no knowledge on China, let alone the complex cross-straits relations.

Its incredibly irresponsible for Trump to meddle in business that are not America's to meddle.

Let the Taiwanese decide on their future as an unified front and then look for help from America.

 

[NoGiRonin]

Good for Trump. Taiwan is its own nation, it isn't part of China. So fuck China and anyone that is talking smack about Trump for doing the right thing.