Economy Donald trump announce tariffs for steel and aluminium on Canada and Mexico , starting feb.9th

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

You still counting how many months between January and June?

You still unsure who was president in June?

 

[Rational Poster]

You still unsure who was president in June?

No, are you unsure who was President between June and January?

 

[Andy Capp]

Can I see some of this literature

Sure bud. Im neck deep in spread sheets matching a boxing event this weekend but I’ll track them down when I have a second

Or you could just not make unsubstantiated claims and back your shit up like everyone else here does

lol

I'll save you both the trouble since I like to verify this kind of thing myself.

Safety and Effectiveness of Syringe Services Programs

Syringe services programs (SSPs) are effective programs that protect the public and first responders

www.cdc.gov

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Mexico I see but Canada not so much. The trading with Canada is pretty close. Andy's point about a deal with Poilievre may be something. Tariffs on cars made from outside the US makes more sense for Mexico or incentives for domestically manufactured cars no?

In that particular case, probably better yes. I haven’t had time to look into this in any detail, I am just alluding to that he does want more even trade.

I know he has done this with steel in the first term. And has said a lot about wanting to save the steel industry here.

I just looked at an article, that says the strategy is to hurt China, as China tries to avoid their tariffs by sending to Canada and Mexico. Also aimed to increase steel production here. Says it did increase domestic production until COVID

I looked at some other articles, seems he lifted these on Canada and Mexico right before COVId, as part of a bigger trade war with China. But then COVID threw all that out the window and then world economy shut down until Biden. Biden kept many in place kn the EU but worked a deal with them being able to send a certain amount tariff free.

Seems Trump’s move here is a flat reset on initial 2017 move

Trump imposes 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum | CNN Politics

President Donald Trump on Monday imposed a 25% tariff on all steel and aluminum imports into the United States with no exceptions or exemptions.

amp.cnn.com

Steel imports fell by 10.2 million tons, or 27%, between 2017, the year before the tariffs, and 2019, according to analysis of government data provided by the American Iron and Steel Institute, an industry trade group. Domestic steel production rose, but only by 6.8 million tons, or 7.5%.

The boost to domestic steel production proved short lived. Both domestic production and imports fell in 2020 as the pandemic cut the demand for steel greatly.

 

[Cajun]

In that particular case, probably better yes. I haven’t had time to look into this in any detail, I am just alluding to that he does want more even trade.

I know he has done this with steel in the first term. And has said a lot about wanting to save the steel industry here.

I just looked at an article, that says the strategy is to hurt China, as China tries to avoid their tariffs by sending to Canada and Mexico. Also aimed to increase steel production here. Says it did increase domestic production until COVID

I looked at some other articles, seems he lifted these on Canada and Mexico right before COVId, as part of a bigger trade war with China. But then COVID threw all that out the window and then world economy shut down until Biden. Biden kept many in place kn the EU but worked a deal with them being able to send a certain amount tariff free.

Seems Trump’s move here is a flat reset on initial 2017 move

Trump imposes 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum | CNN Politics

President Donald Trump on Monday imposed a 25% tariff on all steel and aluminum imports into the United States with no exceptions or exemptions.

amp.cnn.com

Steel imports fell by 10.2 million tons, or 27%, between 2017, the year before the tariffs, and 2019, according to analysis of government data provided by the American Iron and Steel Institute, an industry trade group. Domestic steel production rose, but only by 6.8 million tons, or 7.5%.

The boost to domestic steel production proved short lived. Both domestic production and imports fell in 2020 as the pandemic cut the demand for steel greatly.

Interesting. Thanks for the input. Makes some sense.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Interesting. Thanks for the input. Makes some sense.

Yea, I have said before that I didn’t vote in 2016 and during his first term, I was pretty apolitical, didn’t pay attention to anything except the impeachment.

So it is interesting to go back and look back, especially since hindsight is 20/20, and see what things he did, the reasoning, the outcome, etc.

This seems like a good move. I have heard him talk about it at rallies and such, trying to save the steel industry here, that is is vital not just for trade and the economy, but if a war were to break out, need production in place, etc.

Plus seemed to make money, where Biden admin kept the tariffs on China, and to a lesser extent in Europe

 

[Islam Imamate]

Interesting. Thanks for the input. Makes some sense.

How does it make sense at all? Even the cited link mentions that the bump in domestic production was short lived and overall the first round of tariffs hurt the economy more than it helped.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Or you could just not make unsubstantiated claims and back your shit up like everyone else here does

We are participating in different forums then. The war room is stuffed full of “ready fire aim!” Posts about rumors that end up being demonstrably false.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Can I see some of this literature

Spoiler

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Surveillance for Viral Hepatitis — United States, 2016.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Estimated HIV incidence and prevalence in the United States, 2010–2015. HIV Surveillance Supplemental Report. 2018;23(No. 1). Published March 2018.
Platt L, Minozzi S, Reed J, et al. Needle syringe programmes and opioid substitution therapy for preventing hepatitis C transmission in people who inject drugs. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2017;9:CD012021. doi:10.1002/14651858.CD012021.pub2.
Fernandes RM, Cary M, Duarte G, et al. Effectiveness of needle and syringe programmes in people who inject drugs – An overview of systematic reviews. BMC Public Health. 2017;17(1):309. doi:10.1186/s12889-017-4210-2.
HIV and Injection Drug Use – Vital Signs – CDC. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Published December 2016.
Des Jarlais DC, Nugent A, Solberg A, Feelemyer J, Mermin J, Holtzman D. Syringe service programs for persons who inject drugs in urban, suburban, and rural areas — United States, 2013. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2015;64(48):1337-1341. doi:10.15585/ mmwr.mm6448a3.
Seal KH, Thawley R, Gee L. Naloxone distribution and cardiopulmonary resuscitation training for injection drug users to prevent heroin overdose death: A pilot intervention study. J Urban Health. 2005;82(2):303–311. doi:10.1093/jurban/jti053.
Galea S, Worthington N, Piper TM, Nandi VV, Curtis M, Rosenthal DM. Provision of naloxone to injection drug users as an overdose prevention strategy: Early evidence from a pilot study in New York City. Addict Behav. 2006;31(5):907-912. doi:10.1016/j. addbeh.2005.07.020.
Tobin KE, Sherman SG, Beilenson P, Welsh C, Latkin CA. Evaluation of the Staying Alive programme: Training injection drug users to properly administer naloxone and save lives. Int J Drug Policy. 2009;20(2):131-136. doi:10.1016/j.drugpo.2008.03.002.
Doe-Simkins M, Walley AY, Epstein A, Moyer P. Saved by the nose: Bystander-administered intranasal naloxone hydrochloride for opioid overdose. Am J Public Health. 2009;99(5):788-791. doi:10.2105/ajph.2008.146647.
Bennett AS, Bell A, Tomedi L, Hulsey EG, Kral AH. Characteristics of an overdose prevention, response, and naloxone distribution program in Pittsburgh and Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. J Urban Health. 2011;88(6):1020-1030. doi:10.1007/s11524-011-9600-7.
Leece PN, Hopkins S, Marshall C, Orkin A, Gassanov MA, Shahin RM. Development and implementation of an opioid overdose prevention and response program in Toronto, Ontario. Can J Public Health. 2013;104(3):e200-204.
Childs R. Law enforcement and naloxone utilization in the United States. FDA website.
Tookes HE, Kral AH, Wenger LD, et al. A comparison of syringe disposal practices among injection drug users in a city with versus a city without needle and syringe programs. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2012;123(1-3):255-259. doi:10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2011.12.001.
Tookes HE, Kral AH, Wenger LD, et al. A comparison of syringe disposal practices among injection drug users in a city with versus a city without needle and syringe programs. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2012;123(1-3):255-259. doi:10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2011.12.001.
Klein SJ, Candelas AR, Cooper JG, et al. Increasing safe syringe collection sites in New York State. Public Health Rep. 2008;123(4):433-440. doi:10.1177/003335490812300404.
de Montigny L, Vernez Moudon A, Leigh B, Kim SY. Assessing a drop box programme: a spatial analysis of discarded needles. Int J Drug Policy. 2010; 21(3):208-214. doi:10.1016/j.drugpo.2009.07.003.
de Montigny L, Vernez Moudon A, Leigh B, Kim SY. Assessing a drop box programme: a spatial analysis of discarded needles. Int J Drug Policy. 2010; 21(3):208-214. doi:10.1016/j.drugpo.2009.07.003.
Bluthenthal RN, Anderson R, Flynn NM, Kral AH. Higher syringe coverage is associated with lower odds of HIV risk and does not increase unsafe syringe disposal among syringe exchange program clients. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2007;89(2-3):214-222.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. HIV Infection, Risk, Prevention, and Testing Behaviors among Persons Who Inject Drugs—National HIV Behavioral Surveillance: Injection Drug Use, 20 U.S. Cities, 2015. HIV Surveillance Special Report 18. Revised edition. Published May 2018. Accessed July 30, 2018.
Marx MA, Crape B, Brookmeyer RS, et al. Trends in crime and the introduction of a needle exchange program. Am J Public Health. 2000;90(12),1933–1936.
Galea S, Ahern J, Fuller C, Freudenberg N, Vlahov D. Needle exchange programs and experience of violence in an inner city neighborhood. J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr. 2001;28(3),282-288.

Go nuts

 

[Islam Imamate]

Spoiler

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Surveillance for Viral Hepatitis — United States, 2016.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Estimated HIV incidence and prevalence in the United States, 2010–2015. HIV Surveillance Supplemental Report. 2018;23(No. 1). Published March 2018.
Platt L, Minozzi S, Reed J, et al. Needle syringe programmes and opioid substitution therapy for preventing hepatitis C transmission in people who inject drugs. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2017;9:CD012021. doi:10.1002/14651858.CD012021.pub2.
Fernandes RM, Cary M, Duarte G, et al. Effectiveness of needle and syringe programmes in people who inject drugs – An overview of systematic reviews. BMC Public Health. 2017;17(1):309. doi:10.1186/s12889-017-4210-2.
HIV and Injection Drug Use – Vital Signs – CDC. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Published December 2016.
Des Jarlais DC, Nugent A, Solberg A, Feelemyer J, Mermin J, Holtzman D. Syringe service programs for persons who inject drugs in urban, suburban, and rural areas — United States, 2013. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2015;64(48):1337-1341. doi:10.15585/ mmwr.mm6448a3.
Seal KH, Thawley R, Gee L. Naloxone distribution and cardiopulmonary resuscitation training for injection drug users to prevent heroin overdose death: A pilot intervention study. J Urban Health. 2005;82(2):303–311. doi:10.1093/jurban/jti053.
Galea S, Worthington N, Piper TM, Nandi VV, Curtis M, Rosenthal DM. Provision of naloxone to injection drug users as an overdose prevention strategy: Early evidence from a pilot study in New York City. Addict Behav. 2006;31(5):907-912. doi:10.1016/j. addbeh.2005.07.020.
Tobin KE, Sherman SG, Beilenson P, Welsh C, Latkin CA. Evaluation of the Staying Alive programme: Training injection drug users to properly administer naloxone and save lives. Int J Drug Policy. 2009;20(2):131-136. doi:10.1016/j.drugpo.2008.03.002.
Doe-Simkins M, Walley AY, Epstein A, Moyer P. Saved by the nose: Bystander-administered intranasal naloxone hydrochloride for opioid overdose. Am J Public Health. 2009;99(5):788-791. doi:10.2105/ajph.2008.146647.
Bennett AS, Bell A, Tomedi L, Hulsey EG, Kral AH. Characteristics of an overdose prevention, response, and naloxone distribution program in Pittsburgh and Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. J Urban Health. 2011;88(6):1020-1030. doi:10.1007/s11524-011-9600-7.
Leece PN, Hopkins S, Marshall C, Orkin A, Gassanov MA, Shahin RM. Development and implementation of an opioid overdose prevention and response program in Toronto, Ontario. Can J Public Health. 2013;104(3):e200-204.
Childs R. Law enforcement and naloxone utilization in the United States. FDA website.
Tookes HE, Kral AH, Wenger LD, et al. A comparison of syringe disposal practices among injection drug users in a city with versus a city without needle and syringe programs. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2012;123(1-3):255-259. doi:10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2011.12.001.
Tookes HE, Kral AH, Wenger LD, et al. A comparison of syringe disposal practices among injection drug users in a city with versus a city without needle and syringe programs. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2012;123(1-3):255-259. doi:10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2011.12.001.
Klein SJ, Candelas AR, Cooper JG, et al. Increasing safe syringe collection sites in New York State. Public Health Rep. 2008;123(4):433-440. doi:10.1177/003335490812300404.
de Montigny L, Vernez Moudon A, Leigh B, Kim SY. Assessing a drop box programme: a spatial analysis of discarded needles. Int J Drug Policy. 2010; 21(3):208-214. doi:10.1016/j.drugpo.2009.07.003.
de Montigny L, Vernez Moudon A, Leigh B, Kim SY. Assessing a drop box programme: a spatial analysis of discarded needles. Int J Drug Policy. 2010; 21(3):208-214. doi:10.1016/j.drugpo.2009.07.003.
Bluthenthal RN, Anderson R, Flynn NM, Kral AH. Higher syringe coverage is associated with lower odds of HIV risk and does not increase unsafe syringe disposal among syringe exchange program clients. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2007;89(2-3):214-222.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. HIV Infection, Risk, Prevention, and Testing Behaviors among Persons Who Inject Drugs—National HIV Behavioral Surveillance: Injection Drug Use, 20 U.S. Cities, 2015. HIV Surveillance Special Report 18. Revised edition. Published May 2018. Accessed July 30, 2018.
Marx MA, Crape B, Brookmeyer RS, et al. Trends in crime and the introduction of a needle exchange program. Am J Public Health. 2000;90(12),1933–1936.
Galea S, Ahern J, Fuller C, Freudenberg N, Vlahov D. Needle exchange programs and experience of violence in an inner city neighborhood. J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr. 2001;28(3),282-288.

Go nuts

You should provide links to these studies or at least their abstracts to make them easier to evaluate and you should preferably cite a few at length to demonstrate how it proves your point. Posting a huge list with no links and no quotes doesn't tell us enough about these studies and if you're the one making the claim is on you to "spoon feed" the evidence to us.

 

[Cajun]

How does it make sense at all? Even the cited link mentions that the bump in domestic production was short lived and overall the first round of tariffs hurt the economy more than it helped.

I'm not advocating for it. Just looking for an understanding of it if it's not a negotiation tactic. If he did it before then I can at least understand. I'm still not for it though as Canadian goods are similar as stated. But cottagecheese has been saying it's negotiation so I asked him for input.

 

[DoctorTaco]

You should provide links to these studies or at least their abstracts to make them easier to evaluate and you should preferably cite a few at length to demonstrate how it proves your point. Posting a huge list with no links and no quotes doesn't tell us enough about these studies and if you're the one making the claim is on you to "spoon feed" the evidence to us.

Tbf I was feeling orny. I’m gonna take a break from work and house a burrito. Andycapp sent the link to where the info came from, these are just the sources that make up that info

 

[cottagecheesefan]

How does it make sense at all? Even the cited link mentions that the bump in domestic production was short lived and overall the first round of tariffs hurt the economy more than it helped.

Short lived because of Covid.

Biden even kept the tariffs still in place because they were effective and brought in money, even increasing the tariffs on China

Biden administration to tax foreign-made steel and aluminum imports routed through Mexico

The Biden administration is imposing tariffs on steel and aluminum shipped from Mexico that were made elsewhere.

apnews.com

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/15/biden-tariff-reaction-trump-00158043

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-extends-eu-steel-aluminum-tariff-exemption-2-years-2023-12-28/

 

[Lycandroid]

As I said before, it's because Trump cut a side deal with the premier of Alberta and little PP. Trump already had movement on what he wanted last December.

Have you noticed that the tariffs target Eastern Canada almost exclusively? Well, except for the token 10% on energy, which is just for show. I bet American importers of Alberta petrochemicals are already in line to receive an exemption for that.

I don't know why you would want that troll's opinion. It's not worth a fuck. But I guess we can agree to disagree on that as well.

Sounds like someone has been cranking his cocktail weenie to the CBC a little too much. Pierre isn't even in power and even if he was the fact that you think trying to negotiate a deal with Trump is a bad thing shows how out of touch with reality you are. Nope instead of working with the US for a solution lets make sure a trade war we cannot win happens. The Canadian people should bear the financial burden of Trudeau and his manufactured crisis, that's preferred ?

 

[cottagecheesefan]

I'm not advocating for it. Just looking for an understanding of it if it's not a negotiation tactic. If he did it before then I can at least understand. I'm still not for it though as Canadian goods are similar as stated. But cottagecheese has been saying it's negotiation so I asked him for input.

Did you know Biden implemented the same tariffs on Mexico, for the same reason as Trump?

Biden administration to tax foreign-made steel and aluminum imports routed through Mexico

The Biden administration is imposing tariffs on steel and aluminum shipped from Mexico that were made elsewhere.

apnews.com

But somehow when Trump does it, it makes no sense. But when Biden does it, it is bigly good? Lol. That is the Trump curse in real time, they reflexively say it must be bad cause trump, but as politico mentions here, the long term effects of tariffs have proved useful and now are a good thing.

Just when politico wrote something like this, they thought no way Trump would be back in office and then have to play opposition to it again.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/15/biden-tariff-reaction-trump-00158043

DC slammed Trump’s tariffs. Biden’s decision to keep them draws a very different reaction.​

The response offers yet another reminder of just how much the U.S. political consensus has shifted against free trade.



As I mentioned in the other thread, these people really have no moral or intellectual argument. It is just reflexive cognitive dissonance that their Trump hysteria is just that, and a decade of it now has really taken its toll on them.

“Wow 50 million condoms went to Gaza Mozambique and no Gaza Strip, owned maga chuds!” Uhhh, how about “50 million to condoms anywhere is a waste of our tax money?”

These people are so lame lol

 

[Cajun]

Did you know Biden implemented the same tariffs on Mexico, for the same reason as Trump?

Biden administration to tax foreign-made steel and aluminum imports routed through Mexico

The Biden administration is imposing tariffs on steel and aluminum shipped from Mexico that were made elsewhere.

apnews.com

But somehow when Trump does it, it makes no sense. But when Biden does it, it is bigly good? Lol. That is the Trump curse in real time, they reflexively say it must be bad cause trump, but as politico mentions here, the long term effects of tariffs have proved useful and now are a good thing.

Just when politico wrote something like this, they thought no way Trump would be back in office and then have to play opposition to it again.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/15/biden-tariff-reaction-trump-00158043

DC slammed Trump’s tariffs. Biden’s decision to keep them draws a very different reaction.​

The response offers yet another reminder of just how much the U.S. political consensus has shifted against free trade.



As I mentioned in the other thread, these people really have no moral or intellectual argument. It is just reflexive cognitive dissonance that their Trump hysteria is just that, and a decade of it now has really taken its toll on them.

“Wow 50 million condoms went to Gaza Mozambique and no Gaza Strip, owned maga chuds!” Uhhh, how about “50 million to condoms anywhere is a waste of our tax money?”

These people are so lame lol

Fair point. Thanks. Mexico makes sense and if Canada is doing it then a deal struck that blocks Chinese steel moving through their country makes sense. We both agree on China. Overall Canada has equal priced goods and is a better partner than Mexico as far as trade is concerned. Can we agree on that?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Did you know Biden implemented the same tariffs on Mexico, for the same reason as Trump?

Biden administration to tax foreign-made steel and aluminum imports routed through Mexico

The Biden administration is imposing tariffs on steel and aluminum shipped from Mexico that were made elsewhere.

apnews.com

But somehow when Trump does it, it makes no sense. But when Biden does it, it is bigly good? Lol. That is the Trump curse in real time, they reflexively say it must be bad cause trump, but as politico mentions here, the long term effects of tariffs have proved useful and now are a good thing.

Just when politico wrote something like this, they thought no way Trump would be back in office and then have to play opposition to it again.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/15/biden-tariff-reaction-trump-00158043

DC slammed Trump’s tariffs. Biden’s decision to keep them draws a very different reaction.​

The response offers yet another reminder of just how much the U.S. political consensus has shifted against free trade.



As I mentioned in the other thread, these people really have no moral or intellectual argument. It is just reflexive cognitive dissonance that their Trump hysteria is just that, and a decade of it now has really taken its toll on them.

“Wow 50 million condoms went to Gaza Mozambique and no Gaza Strip, owned maga chuds!” Uhhh, how about “50 million to condoms anywhere is a waste of our tax money?”

These people are so lame lol

Where did I say that it makes sense when Biden does it? I think protectionism is bad regardless of who is doing it, in fact I was bigly critical of Biden for blocking the acquisition of US Steel by Nippon Steel.

 

[Scott Stapp]

Didn't work last time. No new ideas. This country officially has dementia.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Fair point. Thanks. Mexico makes sense and if Canada is doing it then a deal struck that blocks Chinese steel moving through their country makes sense. We both agree on China. Overall Canada has equal priced goods and is a better partner than Mexico as far as trade is concerned. Can we agree on that?

I do agree on that, as Canada trade deficit is only like 50 billion and vs Mexico is 150 billion.

As I mentioned, he actually removed the tariffs, was part of a bigger strategy, which then COVID messed up. I guess the strategy is now to reset and start fresh trade negotiations and stratgery

Where did I say that it makes sense when Biden does it? I think protectionism is bad regardless of who is doing it, in fact I was bigly critical of Biden for blocking the acquisition of US Steel by Nippon Steel.

Congrats on your consistency at least.

 

[irish_thug]

there is 3 downs in our football games and we're not going to win a stanley cup any time soon. is that enough to convince you?