Does COVID-19 change MMA and sports forever?

[William Huggins]

What like queuing up 2m apart?

Who were the people filmed in London parks? The rule breakers all looked pretty white to me so your point is moronic. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11326800/coronavirus-lockdown-advice-ignored-sun/
It's not like The Sun would miss an opportunity to shit on immigrants if they could.

I don't know or really care where you live in London but 'multiculturalism' seems to work just fine on my street anyway. Gentrification > ghettos, look at Peckham and Deptford now.

You don't eat Indian, Chinese, Italian, Mexican...... right, multiculturalism doesn't work. It's not like Christianity (or broadly Christian beliefs) is an British thing either, it was brought here by immigrants and the English language is just a mash up of French, Latin and Norse.

History proves you wrong.

Did a mention race or did I say culture?

Regarding white people, there are plenty of eastern Europeans, no cultural connection.

The issue arises when you have people that really do hate the UK and have no issues with speaking ill of the country but no issues with living comfortably with the freedom of speech, health service etc.........

Please don't talk to me about what you think is going on. I grew up in East London and I'm 44 white and married to a Muslim woman

She can tell you a thing or two about what goes on, if you are not involved, within these groups you wouldn't have a clue, no offense.

 

[GBJohn]

Good questions all around. I think a lot of young people will get back to their routine almost right away. I’d like to know what how people got back to their lives after the Spanish flu as that was more deadly that covid. Truly this is awful for the world, how is anyone going to spend when they are scared like this.

Part of the reason the 1918 flu was so deadly was that it started during the war. A lot of countries' leaders literally wouldn't even talk about the flu, much less put serious measures in place.

 

[IDL]

Probably not forever but I don't think we will have any major sports at least in the United States for another two years or more. I don't know if the UFC can survive that kind of drought and most of the fighters will probably have moved on.

I think what we will see is these companies slowly trying to adapt and put on events in limited capacity. Once the hysteria dies down and people realize we're in this for the long haul, then adapting will be viewed more favourably as it is really the only option.

Then eventually things will return to normal. It will take awhile.

 

[GBJohn]

I'm not trying to start an argument here...or "troll"...but your post describes the yearly flu exactly. For some reason, people think dying from the flu is a walk in the park compared to the corona-cold.

The flu certainly can be deadly, but we already have some herd immunity to influenza, and a great deal of experience in developing flu vaccines. We have no herd immunity to covid-19, and its very novelty means it will be more difficult to develop an effective vaccine. For comparison's sake, influenza generally kills about 30,000 people in the US each year on average. The first death in the US from covid-19 was on February 29th; forty days later, the US death toll is almost 18,000. It's not the flu.
Edited to add: Keep in mind, influenza kills 30,000 per year in almost complete absence of mitigation measures other than vaccine (which less than half the population gets). Due to social distancing and increased emphasis on hygiene, influenza deaths are expected to be way down this year.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

I'm not trying to start an argument here...or "troll"...but your post describes the yearly flu exactly. For some reason, people think dying from the flu is a walk in the park compared to the corona-cold.

The flu certainly can be deadly, but we already have some herd immunity to influenza, and a great deal of experience in developing flu vaccines. We have no herd immunity to covid-19, and its very novelty means it will be more difficult to develop an effective vaccine. For comparison's sake, influenza generally kills about 30,000 people in the US each year on average. The first death in the US from covid-19 was on February 29th; forty days later, the US death toll is almost 18,000. It's not the flu.

Thank you @GBJohn for that simple and comprehensive explanation. I'm really flabbergasted that anyone is still confused by this.

If half of Americans contract this thing, and the death rate is actually only .5% or .6% instead of the current estimated 2%, then a million people die. And 5 million go to the hospital (hopefully not all the same month - e.g. 'leveling the curve' - cuz then a lot more die.)

Novel means that no human has immunity. It's hard to fathom how anyone with internet access doesn't know all this yet.

 

[kflo]

Thank you @GBJohn for that simple and comprehensive explanation. I'm really flabbergasted that anyone is still confused by this.

If half of Americans contract this thing, and the death rate is actually only .5% or .6% instead of the current estimated 2%, then a million people die. And 5 million go to the hospital (hopefully not all the same month - e.g. 'leveling the curve' - cuz then a lot more die.)

Novel means that no human has immunity. It's hard to fathom how anyone with internet access doesn't know all this yet.

And of course, with the hospitals over subscribed, the death rate would be even higher.

Things will get better. But some people just have no perspective on what we are dealing with NOW. Or are just thoughtless fucks......

 

[honzo]

People have short memories. Handshakes and hugs will be back, that being said I think people will social distance a little more in supermarkets.

 

[Schaub]

*Saves MMA*

 

[KING BONES]

The flu certainly can be deadly, but we already have some herd immunity to influenza, and a great deal of experience in developing flu vaccines. We have no herd immunity to covid-19, and its very novelty means it will be more difficult to develop an effective vaccine.

The corona-cold also CAN be deadly (just like the flu). Every year, we encounter a "novel" flu...a mutation...a variant...etc. If we didn't, there would be no reason to get a flu vaccine annually throughout one's life. Furthermore, even with this evolved immunity and vaccine, the flu still has killed far more people and does not receive this level of media attention, government action, and general societal response.

For comparison's sake, influenza generally kills about 30,000 people in the US each year on average. The first death in the US from covid-19 was on February 29th; forty days later, the US death toll is almost 18,000. It's not the flu.

I've chosen to not yet dispute "official" numbers regarding the flu because they act as a common stasis point to begin a discussion between differing perspectives. The "30,000 per year on average" flu deaths show an obvious contradiction to the rhetoric of "saving lives" at the expense of individual rights and freedoms due to the corona-cold. Now that we are focusing on the metric itself, I'll posit my concerns:

I am skeptical of "each year on average" because the rhetoric implies a span over a 12-month period, yet most are sick during "cold/flu" season which would colloquially be understood as "winter-time" (sick season)...therefore, 3 months. Thus, a comparison to a death rate that spans over "forty days" does not seem inappropriate. Rather, it seems like the flu.

You state that the first death in the US from the corona-cold was February 29th. I am highly skeptical regarding the truth of this claim. Confirmed death? Tested death? Death DUE to the corona-cold or other health factors? What about untested deaths that were ascribed as being deaths to the flu back in December? Even the news, through their propagandizing sensationalism, have mentioned similar concepts. I am highly skeptical of the timeline of this "plague." I am not confident in mankind's ability to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.

Edited to add: Keep in mind, influenza kills 30,000 per year in almost complete absence of mitigation measures other than vaccine (which less than half the population gets).

That data would better serve my argument: Even with an "almost complete absence of mitigation measures other than vaccine (which less than half the population gets)" (and without social distancing), 30,000 still die. 30,000 people die and practically nothing is done. 18,000 have died and practically everything is done. There seems to be a discrepancy in the magnitude of response this amount of death has garnered.

Due to social distancing and increased emphasis on hygiene, influenza deaths are expected to be way down this year.

Or also because influenza deaths are now being labeled as corona-cold deaths?

Furthermore, if the rhetoric's aim is to convince that "social distancing saves lives" in general and that that is a good thing and should be followed, then the rhetoric will have to address the concept that social distancing is also "doing more harm than good." A plethora of counterexamples would serve this purpose.

Here's some other rhetoric: if people were in far better physical shape, there would be far fewer deaths from the flu.

Exercising saves lives > social distancing saves lives. I wonder why they haven't made that law across the world.

 

[mime]

All XFL staff laid off, future in doubt. It's all over.

 

[asdf122345]

All XFL staff laid off, future in doubt. It's all over.

dang that was quick. xfl just was gonna start again and its done.

 

[xMaxPower]

everything*

 

[thewhiterooster]

will it change things "forever"? of course not. but it'll effect gyms, promotions etc for 2020 and maybe longer. until the infected #'s go way way down and until there's a vaccine that's proven to work, things will suck.

 

[Stop Being Greedy]

In the short term, yes. In the long term, yes.

I'd considered opening up a BJJ school in the past or partnering with a striking coach and teaching grappling at an MMA gym. I'd be much less likely to do something like that now. There are a lot of people I'm sure who had plans for something similar in place that will now change. We've all seen how terribly many countries have handled this and the powers that be, at least in the US, haven't learned shit from it.

Lots of people never return to training after a layoff. That will happen with tons of people here. Membership will be down overall, gyms will close. It takes a long time for training to become a lifestyle, that work is going to be undone for many. They won't want to come back until it's safe and by that time, they won't want to come back anymore because they'll have moved on to new things. I personally have no interest in ever being on the mat again with some people I've rolled with in the past, after seeing their response to this pandemic.

That's not even taking into account the economic pressure many people are under. They're going to want to save their money. BJJ and MMA are very overpriced, no one is going to want to sign up for a long term contract any time soon. Shit, the way the UFC looks right now will probably turn off some aspiring fighters. All of these things that seem small actually have a huge impact. The economy will recover and the world will go on, but no it isn't going to be the same as before and many gym owners have already come to that conclusion.

 

[wufabufa]

Probably for the next 18 months until we develop a vaccine and put China a short leash for allowing conditions in their markets to breed viruses like this.

 

[SherdogFan23]

It changes all of life (including sports and sporting events) forever if we are unable to create a vaccine to help prevent it.

 

[GBJohn]

The corona-cold also CAN be deadly (just like the flu). Every year, we encounter a "novel" flu...a mutation...a variant...etc. If we didn't, there would be no reason to get a flu vaccine annually throughout one's life. Furthermore, even with this evolved immunity and vaccine, the flu still has killed far more people and does not receive this level of media attention, government action, and general societal response.


I've chosen to not yet dispute "official" numbers regarding the flu because they act as a common stasis point to begin a discussion between differing perspectives. The "30,000 per year on average" flu deaths show an obvious contradiction to the rhetoric of "saving lives" at the expense of individual rights and freedoms due to the corona-cold. Now that we are focusing on the metric itself, I'll posit my concerns:

I am skeptical of "each year on average" because the rhetoric implies a span over a 12-month period, yet most are sick during "cold/flu" season which would colloquially be understood as "winter-time" (sick season)...therefore, 3 months. Thus, a comparison to a death rate that spans over "forty days" does not seem inappropriate. Rather, it seems like the flu.

You state that the first death in the US from the corona-cold was February 29th. I am highly skeptical regarding the truth of this claim. Confirmed death? Tested death? Death DUE to the corona-cold or other health factors? What about untested deaths that were ascribed as being deaths to the flu back in December? Even the news, through their propagandizing sensationalism, have mentioned similar concepts. I am highly skeptical of the timeline of this "plague." I am not confident in mankind's ability to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.

That data would better serve my argument: Even with an "almost complete absence of mitigation measures other than vaccine (which less than half the population gets)" (and without social distancing), 30,000 still die. 30,000 people die and practically nothing is done. 18,000 have died and practically everything is done. There seems to be a discrepancy in the magnitude of response this amount of death has garnered.

Or also because influenza deaths are now being labeled as corona-cold deaths?

Furthermore, if the rhetoric's aim is to convince that "social distancing saves lives" in general and that that is a good thing and should be followed, then the rhetoric will have to address the concept that social distancing is also "doing more harm than good." A plethora of counterexamples would serve this purpose.

Here's some other rhetoric: if people were in far better physical shape, there would be far fewer deaths from the flu.

Exercising saves lives > social distancing saves lives. I wonder why they haven't made that law across the world.

Limiting cold and flu season to three months is disingenuous. That would imply that ALL deaths from influenza occur during this time, and that is simply not the case. The flu does not disappear during warmer months, it's just not as prevalent. I was unable to find information on an average peak month for influenza deaths for comparison's sake, but even if it's 30,000 deaths in three months, that's 10,000 per month. The US passed 100 deaths from covid-19 on March 17th. There have been over 18,000 deaths in the 24 days since. At this point, most of the US has not hit the peak of the first wave of infections. Thankfully, we seem to have leveled off, rather than seeing the death rate continue to climb, but if things don't get better soon, it's fairly easy to extrapolate a toll of 45,000 to 60,000 in a single month, despite all of the mitigation measures.
You seem to be asking for certainty in terms of numbers, but that simply isn't possible with something like this. It is possible to get a fairly close estimate of the rise of cases and of fatalities, and if that trend doesn't seem worse than the seasonal flu to you, I will never convince you.
As for you comment on people being in better physical shape, that is indisputable. The difference between that and social distancing is that, one who is in bad shape risks his or her own health and life. One who is careless with social distancing risks spreading the virus, thus putting many other lives in potential danger.

 

[KING BONES]

Limiting cold and flu season to three months is disingenuous. That would imply that ALL deaths from influenza occur during this time, and that is simply not the case. The flu does not disappear during warmer months, it's just not as prevalent.

That's why I said MOST (cold/flu SEASON)...which is not disingenuous. Did you deliberately overlook some of the finer points of my position? I've already noticed you have not addressed the negation of novelty based on the need to be vaccinated yearly for the flu.

I would contend limiting deaths due to this particular strain of cold/flu/sinusitis/bronchitis to 40 days is disingenuous...which already undermines large parts of your following arguments:

I was unable to find information on an average peak month for influenza deaths for comparison's sake, but even if it's 30,000 deaths in three months, that's 10,000 per month. The US passed 100 deaths from covid-19 on March 17th. There have been over 18,000 deaths in the 24 days since.

Or is it flu deaths that are now being classified as corona-cold deaths? If the virus were as prevalent and asymptomatic as contended, this may have gone on farrrrrrr longer than realized and previous deaths were simply due to the novelty of the virus which thereby allowed it to operate without sufficient address. I'm actually arguing for your position with this statement in order to highlight that the interpretations of data are far from being able to hold up to examination...especially examination to the level appropriate (or particularly necessary) to require such losses of freedom.

At this point, most of the US has not hit the peak of the first wave of infections. Thankfully, we seem to have leveled off, rather than seeing the death rate continue to climb, but if things don't get better soon, it's fairly easy to extrapolate a toll of 45,000 to 60,000 in a single month, despite all of the mitigation measures.

I would change "thankfully" to "as expected" because the cold/flu season is ending and spring is in the air. Life, blossoms, flowers, love, health. "April showers bring May flowers." But, again, that would imply the legitimacy of the data interpretation.

You seem to be asking for certainty in terms of numbers, but that simply isn't possible with something like this. It is possible to get a fairly close estimate of the rise of cases and of fatalities, and if that trend doesn't seem worse than the seasonal flu to you, I will never convince you.

I've addressed these points in this post. You've not addressed the potential for these data interpretations to be propaganda.

As for you comment on people being in better physical shape, that is indisputable. The difference between that and social distancing is that, one who is in bad shape risks his or her own health and life. One who is careless with social distancing risks spreading the virus, thus putting many other lives in potential danger.

As a quick, fleeting response in order to highlight the inability for your position to hold water under routine examination, one who is in bad shape risks the health of others by being at far greater risk of dying from the illness, thereby requiring intervention from society, thereby creating a greater likelihood of spreading the virus to far more people, and thereby also forcing the circumvention of social distancing in order to administer aid (your own point which now contradicts your social-distancing advocacy). A society composed of healthy individuals who are thereby at a far lower risk of death, on the contrary, can risk spreading the disease within itself without the need to remove basic life liberties (through methods such as the loss of going to the beach, having a barbecue, flying a kite at the park) from the vast majority of itself. "He who built his house on rock and not on sand."

I mean, in all honesty, the current rhetoric regarding the corona-cold is nowhere close to sufficient to justify such a massive removal of basic freedoms of life.