Do You See Holloway As Top 5 Guy At LW?

[NationWideNinja]

Hard to say. Feel like almost every fight against the top 5 is a coinflip. I’d favor him the most against Gaethje, and even that is based on the assumption that his chin holds up.

 

[mkt]

I don't think so. Holloway gets away with his relatively short arms for his frame by being tall and willing to eat some shots. I don't think he can employ the same strategy at LW. They punch a little harder and they tend to be around the same height. Max is the man at 145 but he is a volume guy. There are also big wrestlers in 155 that might give him issues.

Yeah, I just don't see how a point fighter with pretty good TDD at 145 moves up to 155 and beats guys like Islam, the current version of Charles, etc. I'm not even sure about guys like Gaethje and Chandler, though they would be fun fights. He should have the cardio to outwork Chandler if he can survive the first 2 rounds.

I will say there are some guys whose punching power improves markedly when they move up a weight class (Masvidal is an example; couldn't KO anyone at LW but did at WW). But I don't think that will happen with Max. We'll see.

 

[Iroh]

No.

 

[Midget Boxer]

He would beat Chandler, Olivera, Tony, Conor

 

[Midget Boxer]

No way, this current version takes him down and subs him, easily. Holloway doesn’t have the power to keep Do Bronx off him at LW.

Good luck taking down Max

 

[El Fernas]

He was competitive with Poirier, making the right move probably, i love him but he would need to work on his defense to survive at LW, and he wouldnt really have reach or height advantages there.

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

Maybe top 5 in the UFC but he'd get smushed by big power wrestling 155ers

 

[NoSmilez]

Yeah, I just don't see how a point fighter with pretty good TDD at 145 moves up to 155 and beats guys like Islam, the current version of Charles, etc. I'm not even sure about guys like Gaethje and Chandler, though they would be fun fights. He should have the cardio to outwork Chandler if he can survive the first 2 rounds.

I will say there are some guys whose punching power improves markedly when they move up a weight class (Masvidal is an example; couldn't KO anyone at LW but did at WW). But I don't think that will happen with Max. We'll see.

We saw his punching power at 155 with Dustin. Max is pretty much a volume guy but he got hit a lot in that fight. He had some good moments too but it was a clear win for Dustin. Dustin had the power and technical advantage. We are still talking too early. He has one more fight with Volk. I believe the winner is going to move up.

 

[mkt]

We saw his punching power at 155 with Dustin. Max is pretty much a volume guy but he got hit a lot in that fight. He had some good moments too but it was a clear win for Dustin. Dustin had the power and technical advantage. We are still talking too early. He has one more fight with Volk. I believe the winner is going to move up.

Yeah, Dustin, Charles, Whittaker and Burns are all examples of fighters who benefit from moving to a heavier weight class. It doesn't work for everyone, though. There are always trade-offs--you may improve your punching power with additional weight but everyone else hits harder, too...can your chin handle it? You may improve your wrestling/TDD with a few extra pounds, but you'll be facing stronger/heavier wrestlers...etc.

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

Weird seeing as Eddie actually did finish Poirier.

With an illegal knee.

I'm sure Max could've "finished" Poirier if he'd decided to gouge Poirier's eyes out when he had him on the verge of collapse against the fence.

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

If Max really is an extreme weight cutter, that creates a super interesting dynamic if he's ascending to a more natural weight. Oliveria's the classic example of this.

According to Big John, the UFC was weighing fighters on fight night during one of the Aldo/Holloway events for tracking purposes, and he'd noted weights for certain fighters.

Now, this was with clothes on (so maybe subtract 5 pounds or so for a more or less accurate cage weight), but Aldo weighed 169, amd Max weighed 178.

Max is a huge FW in terms of mass.

 

[markg171]

With an illegal knee.

I'm sure Max could've "finished" Poirier if he'd decided to gouge Poirier's eyes out when he had him on the verge of collapse against the fence.

Poirier was only down for the illegal knee that KO'd him cold because he was in the midst of being KO'd by legitimate strikes. Eddie had turned the fight around and was about to win before his brain fart.

Also fuck Poirier for playing the stupid hand game of trying to put one hand down to make you "safe", then specifically dropping his hands away from his head hoping for a DQ. Was rightfully KO'd for that. It's a fight.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

if he puts on proper size without sacrificing volume and pacing, absolutely.

 

[Blacksonville]

According to Big John, the UFC was weighing fighters on fight night during one of the Aldo/Holloway events for tracking purposes, and he'd noted weights for certain fighters.

Now, this was with clothes on (so maybe subtract 5 pounds or so for a more or less accurate cage weight), but Aldo weighed 169, amd Max weighed 178.

Max is a huge FW in terms of mass.

Thats really interesting.
Oliveira is the case-study in "cutting max weight doesn't make you a better fighter", his results speak for themselves now that he's fighting at a much more realistic weight.

The same could be the case for Max.

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

Poirier was only down on his knees for the illegal knee that KO'd him cold because he was in the midst of being KO'd by legitimate strikes. Eddie had turned the fight around and was about to win before his brain fart.

Nah.

Poirier was only down because of a takedown, and the only knee that landed flush and clean was the illegal one. Watch it again, including the slow mo.

Poirier gets up from the TD, the first knee misses, and the second knee only hits his glove.

At that point, Poirier realizes he's easy pickings, goes back to the mat, and uncovers his head, thinking he's safe.

At that point, Eddie lands a flush illegal knee right to Poirier's unprotected head and opens the huge cut.

Poirier was exploiting the rules to regroup sure, but Eddie himself does that shit all the time (and has admitted he's willing to cheat a little sometimes, e.g. "veteran moves" that refs miss or allow once, etc.).

 

[markg171]

Nah.

Poirier was only down because of a takedown, and the only knee that landed flush and clean was the illegal one. Watch it again, including the slow mo.

Poirier was only taken down because Eddie had rocked him on the feet and turned the fight around. He'd backed him up and then went for a takedown to avoid a potential counter from Poirier that could potentially swing things back + to get him into an even worse position, which he achieved. Poirier was *specifically* down from a takedown yes, not a knockdown, but it had all happened because Eddie had changed the fight way back in to his favour.

Poirier was in the midst of being legitimately finished and started playing the hand games to try and avoid it, which didn't stop Eddie, and then blatantly opened himself up to just take a DQ win when Eddie inevitably KO'd him.

I still saw enough to see that Eddie won that first fight. Especially with Poirier playing stupid games. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You got KO'd cold and didn't even get the DQ.

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

Poirier was only taken down because Eddie had rocked him on the feet and turned the fight around. He'd backed him up and then went for a takedown to avoid a potential counter from Poirier that could potentially swing things back + to get him into an even worse position, which he achieved. Poirier was *specifically* down from a takedown yes, not a knockdown, but it had all happened because Eddie had changed the fight way back in to his favour.

Huh?

You should watch it again. Eddie was the one getting clipped more often and harder before the takedown--in fact, Rogan even pointed out that Poirier hurt Eddie with a hard left a second right before the takedown.

Eddie shot because he was getting lit up, hurt, and needed the break.

Poirier was in the midst of being legitimately finished and started playing the hand games to try and avoid it, which didn't stop Eddie, and then blatantly opened himself up to just take a DQ win when Eddie inevitably KO'd him.

Poirier was in the midst of being legitimately finished and started playing the hand games to try and avoid it, which didn't stop Eddie, and then blatantly opened himself up to just take a DQ win when Eddie inevitably KO'd him.

Eddie landed nothing significant on the ground, and his first knees didn't even land to the head (the first missed, and the second hit a glove).

Yeah, Dustin did take advantage of the rules to avoid a knee getting through eventually, but that's SOP for all fighters and strategy 101.

If the rules were different, Dustin wouldn't have stopped protecting his head in the first place.

The only reason Eddie landed the only attack in that 10 second sequence that "finished" or even hurt Dustin is because he cheated with a move Dustin expected he couldn't throw.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

No, he doesn't hit very hard for a FW so that becomes a bigger problem at LW where more people can walk through his punches and hurt him. There are also a bunch of guys I can see out grappling him as well as out striking him.

 

[MEAN357]

Arman and Gamrot are ranked in the top 10 and the winner will be close to contention. Fiziev is also top 10 and with a win over RDA would be close. Guram is fighting Damir winner of that will be top 15.

The context of the threat was top 5, McGregor is literally #8 lol theres a big gap between top 10 and top 5. I dont think any of these talented up m comers are gonna fighting Poirier anytime soon

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

Thats really interesting.
Oliveira is the case-study in "cutting max weight doesn't make you a better fighter", his results speak for themselves now that he's fighting at a much more realistic weight.

The same could be the case for Max.

Yeah, it's hard to say, since Max had a lot more success at FW than Charles did.

If it's the case that this superior success is partly due to Max's physiology allowing him to recover from huge weight cuts better than Oliveira did (i.e. Max has one of the best gas tanks, chins, and attack volumes ever seen in the weight class, despite the cut), than FW may be his optimal division given his short reach and mass advantage.

As long as his weight cut recovery holds--and it may not as he gets older--then moving up would put him at greater reach disadvantages, reduce his mass advantage, and put his chin at greater risk against harder hitters.

Would he gain other things to balance that out? Power, if he let himself get heavier? Hard to say.

He did do amazing against Poirier, so he'd still be at least Top 5, IMO.