Do you appreciate WMMA?

[Jopo]

Last night main event was a pretty high level fight.

 

[SnitchInsider]

Mackenzie Dern just made her MMA debut the other day. More and more women of high skill in varying disciplines are coming over to MMA. It's only a matter of time until the quality of the fights starts to improve exponentially. Entrances of fighters with technical skills like Dern to MMA will put fighters on notice and accelerate the growth of important skillsets, just like it did on the men's side.

 

[bad_k]

Comparing it to the men's division is the equivalent of saying the lightweight division sucks because heavyweights would maul them.

No it is not

Men's lightweight division is faster, quicker and more explosive than the heavyweight. Heavtweight offers more power.

So literally everything you wrote after that goes out the window, it's a weak example.

Even men's flyweight, you can make an argument there that Mighty Mouse moves faster than anybody in Lightweight.

 

[SnitchInsider]

No it is not

Men's lightweight division is faster, quicker and more explosive than the heavyweight. Heavtweight offers more power.

So literally everything you wrote after that goes out the window, it's a weak example.

Even men's flyweight, you can make an argument there that Mighty Mouse moves faster than anybody in Lightweight.

And Joanna and a number of other females in 115 or 135 are quicker, faster and more explosive than Roy Nelson, or Frank Mir, or plenty of others. You're making my point for me. But, they don't have to be anyway. They simply have to be different. Every division -- particularly on the extreme ends -- is different from one another.

 

[bad_k]

And Joanna and a number of other females in 115 or 135 are quicker, faster and more explosive than Roy Nelson, or Frank Mir, or plenty of others. You're making my point for me. But, they don't have to be anyway. They simply have to be different. Every division -- particularly on the extreme ends -- is different from one another.

No because men in those same weight classes are all faster, stronger, more skilled and has a deeper talent pool.

 

[SnitchInsider]

No because men in those same weight classes are all faster, stronger, more skilled and has a deeper talent pool.

Which is not an argument. You're going in a circle here. You argued my point about gender divisions functionally serving the same purpose as weight divisions was wrong because lighter men are faster than heavyweight men. For some reason you forgot that lighter women are faster than heavyweight men (although the apt comparison would be lighter women being faster than heavier women).

Talent pool is a situational argument. Yes, the talent pool is the weakest in the UFC. That's to be expected since they are A. The newest divisions and B. Are the first real financial avenue for women to make money at this job. It's going to take time.

 

[Hotei]

I used to have a lot of fun following Invicta, i even used to write articles for an mma website after every event. Now i find the WMMA scene really boring.

 

[SnitchInsider]

I used to have a lot of fun following Invicta, i even used to write articles for an mma website after every event. Now i find the WMMA scene really boring.

Well, Invicta was gutted and frankly the UFC doesn't book the women as often as they should. It feels like a lot of women are waiting around for fights. I think the scene is as interesting as ever right now, though. I'm really hoping to see Joanna vs. Rose soon.

 

[bad_k]

Which is not an argument. You're going in a circle here. You argued my point about gender divisions functionally serving the same purpose as weight divisions was wrong because lighter men are faster than heavyweight men. For some reason you forgot that lighter women are faster than heavyweight men (although the apt comparison would be lighter women being faster than heavier women).

No that was always the original argument, you seem lost.

The original argument was that WMMA is the less athletic version of the men's. You are the one who used weight classes as an example to present your own argument and I debunked that by saying that the men in those weight classes are faster and more explosive, which I have been saying since the very beginning.

 

[FimbulFightPicks]

II greatly appreciate any strong willed and beautiful ladies stepping up like they do. wmma is perhaps my favorite, they tend to be alot easier to breakdown for me. And just look at some of the hate Nunes got before her fight with Tate, absolutely uncalled for. Look at the hate for rousey, now alot of bandwagons have quit Holm and any unknown female fighter is often looked down upon. But they show more heart, skill and determiantion than all the losers thinking they are some how more hardcore or more of a fan by watching less mma and saying how shit it is, and also not profitting from their fights. Its you who lose out if you don´t appreciate it. There´s just as many terrible male fighters as females if you wanna watch terrible fights if thats what people are on about.

besides the skill level in wmma is bound to increase, more female fighters, more popularity, more fights, more of everything. You dont have to like it or appreciate it, but you´re not more of a fan or real man by doing so. The wmma bantamweight division is in such a state of flux right now anything can happen, its exciting. in the strawweight you just had a terrific match with JJ vs Claudia, and who didn´t appreciate Cyborg KO´ing smith at ufc 198. Dem sweet first ro KO money was one of my best bets. So i love wmma. There´s also a youtueb channel with wmmaroundup i think, thats pretty cool. And this tuf season had some awesome female fighters. JJ (not joanna) was a badass, so was Tatiana, Cooper and Moyle, and Lanchana had really cool personalities and an awesome attitude overall.

Also i realize this post is probably the most white knight post ever. So props for that. Yay. 100 white knight loser points lol. L to me.
Anyway
I hope they make nunes vs valentina, those sweet moneys coming in. And we´ll have two strong polish champs hopefully. JJ and Valentina.

 

[SnitchInsider]

No that was always the original argument, you seem lost.

The original argument was that WMMA is the less athletic version of the men's. You are the one who used weight classes as an example to present your own argument and I debunked that by saying that the men in those weight classes are faster and more explosive, which I have been saying since the very beginning.

Once again. It doesn't matter that 135 lbs men are better or more explosive or what have you than 135lbs women for the same reason it doesn't matter that heavyweights are stronger than lightweights, or that flyweights are faster than middleweights. It doesn't matter because divisions are separated for parity, as are genders. We evaluate them respective of their peer group.

 

[bad_k]

Once again. It doesn't matter that 135 lbs men are better or more explosive or what have you than 135lbs women for the same reason it doesn't matter that heavyweights are stronger than lightweights, or that flyweights are faster than middleweights. It doesn't matter because divisions are separated for parity, as are genders.

So you decided to go in a circle, how ironic.

Weight divisions offers different speed and dynamic of the fight, this is why Heavyweight is not the most popular weight class in the sport although you blindly tried to use that as an argument against me to assume that I only care about the bigger weightclasses.

In the other hand gender difference only offers less athleticism, power and speed. (even less depth in talent pool)

 

[lecter]

of course, I dont get the problem with WMMA at all

Well the thing is, if I watch the main card of a UFC PPV, I want to see high level MMA.
I wouldn't say 'hey that's a great idea' if the UFC decided to replace one of the main card fights with a fight between two male youngsters who previously fought on some local show.
But most of the time (not always) that's the level of MMA you get with two women fighting on the main card.
I don't know if it actually was on a main card but just look at the McMann-Eye fight as an example.
This was a fight between #5 vs #7 ranked WBWs or something like that. Two people throwing punches while standing 10 feet away from each other and doing nothing.
A girl with the skills of Paige, going for that school yard headlock takedown and only training MMA before a fight headlines cards.

 

[SnitchInsider]

So you decided to go in a circle, how ironic.

Weight divisions offers different speed and dynamic of the fight, this is why Heavyweight is not the most popular weight class in the sport although you blindly tried to use that as an argument against me to assume that I only care about the bigger weightclasses.

In the other hand gender difference only offers less athleticism, power and speed. (even less depth in talent pool)

No one went in a circle here but you (actually your argument changed on a whim, but I'm letting it slide). I'm repeating what I've said because you continue to not understand why your argument doesn't work. And no one said you only like heavier weightclasses. I don't think you're following along here.

Saying that 135 lbs men offer more speed, power and athleticism than 135 lbs women is not an argument. It's not an argument because they are not in the same division for those very reasons. You accept and have no problem with the concept of parity and relative success when separating men's divisions by weight, but you refuse to accept the concept of parity and relative success when separating by gender. Even though both weight and gender are separated for the same core principle: Parity and fairness.

 

[bad_k]

No one went in a circle here but you. I'm repeating what I've said because you continue to not understand why your argument doesn't work. And no one said you only like heavier weightclasses. I don't think you're following along here.

Saying that 135 lbs men offer more speed, power and athleticism than 135 lbs women is not an argument. It's not an argument because they are not in the same division for those very reasons. You accept and have no problem with the concept of parity and relative success when separating men's divisions by weight, but you refuse to accept the concept of parity and relative success when separating by gender. Even though both weight and gender are separated for the same core principle: Parity and fairness.

You seem lost and yes you are going in a circle.

Take a look at what you've said in your quote that I highlighted for you in bold and look back at my original argument. My original argument was that what is the purpose of watching the less athletic and slower version of MMA. You then came up with an argument about weightclasses saying then why would I watch lightweight fights when heavyweights can beat them? I answered that by saying that lightweights move faster and are more dynamic than the heavyweights.

So even tho lightweights can't beat heayvweights, they can move in ways heavyweights can't and have skills and dynamic that heavyweights doesn't posses. There is a not thing women in 115 and 135 that men in 125 and 135 can't do, they are less athletic and less powerful. Do you get it now?

 

[SnitchInsider]

You seem lost and yes you are going in a circle.
You then came up with an argument about weightclasses saying then why would I watch lightweight fights when heavyweights can beat them? I answered that by saying that lightweights move faster and are more dynamic than the heavyweights.

So even tho lightweights can't beat heayvweights, they can move in ways heavyweights can't and have skills and dynamic that heavyweights doesn't posses.

... which isn't an argument, because the lighter women's division also can move in ways most heavyweights can't. But once again, the correct parallel here would be that lighter women can move in different ways from heavier women. And, even then, that doesn't matter because divisions are separated for fairness, not for style points.

There is a not thing women in 115 and 135 that men in 125 and 135 can't do, they are the lesser version of the men's. Do you get it now?

And this is the part where you go back in circles, so I'll walk you through this one slowly. Because you've failed to establish your premise (see: Directly above this at the previous quote reply), you're back at square one. Here I tell you once again that you can't compare 135 men and 135 women because they are in separate divisions, just like weight divisions are not directly comparable. You can say one is better than the other, but all you're doing is saying one is better than the other. So what? Welterweight is better than heavyweight as far as talent pool is concerned. Does that mean heavyweight shouldn't exist? Of course not.

 

[EGarrett]

At the UFC's peak in 2009, they had 5 divisions. 155, 170, 185, 205, and 265. And the existence of 155 was questionable. They currently have 10 divisions (if I'm counting properly) and are running far too many cards.

WMMA can be fine, but right now it's contributing to the product being severely watered down and the belts and cards all being less special. This is not good.

Shitty minor leagues and watered down product do not expand a league. See NFL Europe. Small samples of SUPER HIGH QUALITY create the demand that allows for gradual expansion into other areas. See the 1992 Dream Team in basketball.

 

[bad_k]

... which isn't an argument, because the lighter women's division also can move in ways most heavyweights can't.

and those lighter women's division are the less athletic and less powerful version of the men's in that same class.

Which again takes us back to my original argument.... why would anyone want to watch the less athletic and less powerful version of the sport.

You seem to blindly ignore this each and every single time.

Well this is because you have no logical argument here.

 

[froggyluv]

This thread is fucking absurd - guys arguing and dissecting opinions like its a legal case. I dont like WMMA and really dont give a fuck if someone cant handle that.

 

[SnitchInsider]

and those lighter women's division are the less athletic and less powerful version of the men's in that same class.

They. Are. In. Different. Divisions. They. Are. Not. Comparable. Relativity. Exists. That's. Why. You. Accept. Divisions. In. The. First. Place.

Which again takes us back to my original argument.... why would anyone want to watch the less athletic and less powerful version of the sport.

The same reason you watch more than the "optimum" weight division -- Because you believe in the idea of fairness and parity. Of separating fighters based on weight. You think a few pounds is enough to warrant entirely separate divisions that you treat independently and don't directly judge versus another division, but when you introduce an entirely different gender you somehow can't wrap your head around the idea of doing the same, despite the differences being much more pronounced than a few pounds.

Before your brain finishes processing what I just said there, go back up and read the part I bolded in that previous line once again. You watch each division to find out who the best in the world are at their respective divisions. The reason to watch women's 135 is the same as the reason to watch men's 135, or 205 -- to discover who the best is in their division.

You seem to blindly ignore this each and every single time.

Well this is because you have no logical argument here.

I'm doing the exact opposite of blindly ignoring what you're saying. I'm directly addressing it. And you still can't see your own circular reasoning.