Director's who lost their touch

[Gurglevox]

i'll have to see the master the whole way through. i didn't get past the first 30 minutes

 

[ufcfan4]

i’m a total mark for Death Proof. i think it’s way better than Django.

The funny thing is I love Django Unchained- for me, it's maybe 3 on my overall list of QT films but I know many people dislike it or at least don't hold it as highly.

I have a love/hate type of feeling on Death Proof. There's so much good there- Russell's villain, for instance, is one of QT's definite iconic characters. Great performance and well-realized character. The scene where he picks up McGowan is very intense and brutal. Just another example of QT's strength of ramping up tension so effectively. You realize how desperate a situation Rose is truly in and then Stuntman Mike just breaks out that line, "This car really is Death Proof but you have to be sitting in my seat" SLAMS the brake. Crazy stuff. Still, I think it really starts to falter in the second half. First, I think the crew of girls at the beginning- Ferlito, Poitier, Ladd was more interesting from a character perspective than the ultimate protagonists. And yet they are taken out in short order. I couldn't really get drawn in with Rosario and her crew there and that was an issue for me.

But even though I think it loses a lot of steam for me at the point that they take over the film, I find the Zoe Bell stunt absolutely phenomenal (and just the notion of Zoe, a great stunt performer being able to be featured like that in a film where the villain is a stuntman- I like that type of meta stuff QT delivers). Also, when the women turn the table and Mike is all banged up and injured, Russell delivers this Looney Tunes-esque expression of pain that I cannot keep a straight face at. Hilariously over the top.

So yeah there's plenty of good there. I just don't really like the whole product.

BUT pair it with Planet Terror and those epic fake trailers and you have an 8.5/10 experience.

 

[HenryFlower]

Boogie Nights and Punch Drunk Love are my two favourites of his.

His recent stuff falls into the “I admire them more than I enjoy them”, imo.

yeah, i think this one is coming down to a matter of personal taste. i think both those films are great, of course, but TWBB, The Master, Inherent Vice & Phantom Thread are all films i can watch endlessly. i’ve watched the latter three at least ten times & i don’t even wanna know how many goddamn times i’ve watched TWBB at this point. despite its length, TWBB has become my go-to comfort movie whenever i’m feeling lethargic, or hungover, or coming down off a long trip.

 

[hillelslovak87]

I thought even Clerks 2 was bad

Kevin Smith has had nothing to say for decades. He's like 50, and still going on talk shows with edgy jokes about waking and baking, stuff like that.

 

[ufcfan4]

yeah, i think this one is coming down to a matter of personal taste. i think both those films are great, of course, but TWBB, The Master, Inherent Vice & Phantom Thread are all films i can watch endlessly. i’ve watched the latter three at least ten times & i don’t even wanna know how many goddamn times i’ve watched TWBB at this point. despite its length, TWBB has become my go-to comfort movie whenever i’m feeling lethargic, or hungover, or coming down off a long trip.

I can watch the final scene between DDL and Dano over and over again. It just delivers every time lol.

Yes he does-ahhh...

 

[hillelslovak87]

The funny thing is I love Django Unchained- for me, it's maybe 3 on my overall list of QT films but I know many people dislike it or at least don't hold it as highly.

I have a love/hate type of feeling on Death Proof. There's so much good there- Russell's villain, for instance, is one of QT's definite iconic characters. Great performance and well-realized character. The scene where he picks up McGowan is very intense and brutal. Just another example of QT's strength of ramping up tension so effectively. You realize how desperate a situation Rose is truly in and then Stuntman Mike just breaks out that line, "This car really is Death Proof but you have to be sitting in my seat" SLAMS the brake. Crazy stuff. Still, I think it really starts to falter in the second half. First, I think the crew of girls at the beginning- Ferlito, Poitier, Ladd was more interesting from a character perspective than the ultimate protagonists. And yet they are taken out in short order. I couldn't really get drawn in with Rosario and her crew there and that was an issue for me.

But even though I think it loses a lot of steam for me at the point that they take over the film, I find the Zoe Bell stunt absolutely phenomenal (and just the notion of Zoe, a great stunt performer being able to be featured like that in a film where the villain is a stuntman- I like that type of meta stuff QT delivers). Also, when the women turn the table and Mike is all banged up and injured, Russell delivers this Looney Tunes-esque expression of pain that I cannot keep a straight face at. Hilariously over the top.

So yeah there's plenty of good there. I just don't really like the whole product.

BUT pair it with Planet Terror and those epic fake trailers and you have an 8.5/10 experience.

I always loved those two movies. Although there weren't enough feet for my liking. 4 Rose Mcgowan gun legs out of 5 Rose Mcgowan gun legs.

 

[Gurglevox]

Kevin Smith started being more interested in being a personality than a writer

 

[LEWIS540]

yeah, i think this one is coming down to a matter of personal taste. i think both those films are great, of course, but TWBB, The Master, Inherent Vice & Phantom Thread are all films i can watch endlessly. i’ve watched the latter three at least ten times & i don’t even wanna know how many goddamn times i’ve watched TWBB at this point. despite its length, TWBB has become my go-to comfort movie whenever i’m feeling lethargic, or hungover, or coming down off a long trip.

Ha, seems an odd choice.

I tend to go The Shining or Manhunter when in a similar state.

 

[Gurglevox]

Why can’t I quote people anymore?

 

[hillelslovak87]

Kevin Smith started being more interested in being a personality than a writer

His personality is of that guy that still loiters in the comic book shop in his 40s with supremely loose fitting clothes on for some reason.

You'd think wearing shorts all the damn time would inspire some calf raises at the very least.

 

[ufcfan4]

I always loved those two movies. Although there weren't enough feet for my liking. 4 Rose Mcgowan gun legs out of 5 Rose Mcgowan gun legs.

I think the whole is so much greater than the sum of the parts though. I can't overstate this enough- there's plenty of times I'll see a very good movie and often I will end up watching it again. But there's not many times where I'm blown away by the actual theater experience to the extent that I remember seeing the film in the theater as much as I do the actual content of the film.

That was Grindhouse for me. The way that Rodriguez and Tarantino captured that vibe of that type of low-budget horror/thriller film so expertly and how it was only enhanced by the hilarious fake trailers it was just so well executed. When you watch those fake trailers from Edgar Wright and Rob Zombie and Roth, you just see, wow these guys just absolutely get the sensibility of what QT and Rodriguez envisioned here. It's ideal.

So while I understand how they split the films once it hit on DVD from a marketing standpoint, I think you absolutely dissected the essential awesomeness of the overall product.

 

[Gurglevox]

Lol pretty much

 

[BisexualMMA]

And, much like M. Night, the dude seemed to have become preoccupied with making a certain type of film that would cater to the audience he cultivated. For M. Night, it was that Twilight Zone-esque atmosphere and the twist at the end. Worked great in Sixth Sense. Was awesome in Unbreakable. I liked it a lot with Signs as well. But, the thing was, those were technically solid, effective movies throughout and the twists or shocks merely complemented the quality. Once The Village hit, it wasn't horrible but it was diminishing returns. It was, quite frankly, dull.

But after that was the real problematic stretch. Lady in the Water- pretentious and poor. The Happening- very unsatisfying and silly. Never saw After Earth but I've heard it was similarly weak.

He did, to his credit, seem to bounce back with The Visit and Split. I liked both of them. But then he went to the well once too much with that Unbreakable/Split world. Glass was a wasted opportunity. And, again, I think it was more of his preoccupation with- this is the mythos...this is what people want to see. And making a good movie took a backseat to establishing some universe.

And Smith it's sort of similar. I feel like he tried to make the same type of movie often and that it ended up hindering his overall canon. He created this multi-movie world that people enjoyed but he became so preoccupied with it and all the little asides and nods to the fans that he lost what made the stuff enjoyable the first time around when it was fresh. The funny thing is he could probably apply his sensibilities and humor well to telling other stories but he tends to go back to the well of the View Askew stuff because it's probably the closest thing to a sure thing for him in terms of fan interest.

Again, we know the guy can write and direct good material. Clerks and Chasing Amy are proof of that. I'd like to see him branch out a bit. Jersey Girl at least did that.

Pretty much agree on all points with the following notes...

The Visit was a real showcase of Shyamalan's limitations as a director to me. Where he was once seemingly prodigiously good at casting and directing children, we ended up that claw your eyes and ears out performance from mini Grandmaster Flash. A lot of that is on the writing and directing though... It was a return to form of sorts with suspense and atmosphere though.

As for Split... Watchable, but I was surprised that it was so well received by the public. That crammed in scene with Bruce Willis at the end was laughably bad in terms of writing. And then what it set up in the next film was utter tripe.

Kevin Smith... I had something to say on that but it has slipped my mind.

Oh yeah, just that the only time Jay and Silent Bob work well is when they are the seasoning on the steak (Chasing Amy, Clerks) and not the steak itself. I don't know if it was ego or what, but he moved entirely away from using them as punctuation and instead made himself and Mewes the protagonists of the movies. They just aren't interesting or funny when they're on screen for an hour and a half. It's like if American Pie suddenly made every movie all about the Sherminator. They actually did make that mistake with the Stifler, who was hilarious as the sixth or seventh lead, but then they started relying on him to carry worse and worse stories.

I think Kevin Smith only had a few heartfelt things to say on film in this life, and he said them with Clerks and Chasing Amy. After that he just started filling out movies with pop culture references and that's about as empty as it can get. He briefly had a bit more to say in Jersey Girl, and then he just reverted to pop references, fake philosophical babble and slapstick gags.

 

[ufcfan4]

Pretty much agree on all points with the following notes...

The Visit was a real showcase of Shyamalan's limitations as a director to me. Where he was once seemingly prodigiously good at casting and directing children, we ended up that claw your eyes and ears out performance from mini Grandmaster Flash. A lot of that is on the writing and directing though... It was a return to form of sorts with suspense and atmosphere though.

As for Split... Watchable, but I was surprised that it was so well received by the public. That crammed in scene with Bruce Willis at the end was laughably bad in terms of writing. And then what it set up in the next film was utter tripe.

Kevin Smith... I had something to say on that but it has slipped my mind.

Oh yeah, just that the only time Jay and Silent Bob work well is when they are the seasoning on the steak (Chasing Amy, Clerks) and not the steak itself. I don't know if it was ego or what, but he moved entirely away from using them as punctuation and instead made himself and Mewes the protagonists of the movies. They just aren't interesting or funny when they're on screen for an hour and a half. It's like if American Pie suddenly made every movie all about the Sherminator. They actually did make that mistake with the Stifler, who was hilarious as the sixth or seventh lead, but then they started relying on him to carry worse and worse stories.

I think Kevin Smith only had a few heartfelt things to say on film in this life, and he said them with Clerks and Chasing Amy. After that he just started filling out movies with pop culture references and that's about as empty as it can get. He briefly had a bit more to say in Jersey Girl, and then he just reverted to pop references, fake philosophical babble and slapstick gags.

Very well said.

Haha at the point about the acting in The Visit. I think you're right for sure. When you see a bad youth actor performance, a good deal of that has to go back to the director/writer. If a character is written as obnoxious, there's not much even a talented child actor can do about that. If the character is written neutrally but is played obnoxiously (without intention for that to come across as a character trait), it's up to the filmmaker to really convey how to improve it via feedback.

Sometimes you'll get a pretty decent young actor performance despite the role being really bad. Like Jurassic World II, I thought- this actress is not bad. The character is ridiculous but she's not doing a bad job given the script. And I say that even knowing the character does that offensively stupid action at the end of the movie.

Hell yeah with Smith making him and Mewes the stars of the film. I feel like you can pull that card once with Strike Back but when you pull that multiple times, no thanks.

Great example with the comparison to Stifler. What's the name of that tendency- to take a break out supporting character and then make him the focal point despite the fact that part of the appeal was the fact that you were dealing with said character in small doses. From a TV perspective, it's like Urkel in Family Matters.

 

[therealdope]

Kevin Smith: Clerks was genius. Everything else is forgettable.

 

[nhbbear]

Tarantino

 

[Bob Gray]

Has basically the career trajectory of Shyamalan. Came out charging with two decent movies in his first three and then went off a fucking cliff. His next best movie is probably Jersey Girl.

He milks the Jay and Silent Bob characters harder than Luke milks his sea monster and he still hasn't had them do anything worthwhile since the 1990s.

I thought he showed a lot of promise with Red State. Definitely well out of his wheelhouse. Wish he could have done his original ending.

 

[0_o]

I think Kevin Smith only had a few heartfelt things to say on film in this life, and he said them with Clerks and Chasing Amy. After that he just started filling out movies with pop culture references and that's about as empty as it can get. He briefly had a bit more to say in Jersey Girl, and then he just reverted to pop references, fake philosophical babble and slapstick gags.

well yeah, if you forgot who wrote Dogma

 

[Deleted member 110072]

yeah, i think this one is coming down to a matter of personal taste. i think both those films are great, of course, but TWBB, The Master, Inherent Vice & Phantom Thread are all films i can watch endlessly. i’ve watched the latter three at least ten times & i don’t even wanna know how many goddamn times i’ve watched TWBB at this point. despite its length, TWBB has become my go-to comfort movie whenever i’m feeling lethargic, or hungover, or coming down off a long trip.

His earlier stuff is I'd say more following his influences, especially the Coens in being quirky writer heavy work were as TWBB makes a shift towards films built on atmospheric direction and actors performances. I'd agree with you I think its his best most individual work but perhaps not as easy viewing as what came before?

Tarantino recently as well is I think somewhat similar, Once Upon A Time in Hollywood is arguably the lest dialog heavy and most visually dependant film he's made. Hateful Eight I think clearly moved in that direction as well dispite seeming like a script heavy thriller at first, perhaps as a response to the leak of the script?

I do think generally he's avoided serious decline by making that kind of shift, in the late 90's it looked like it would be diminishing returns of crime thrillers with pop culture speaches and then in the 00's that he would be stuck in pulpy references in the same fashion but each time he shifted.

These two I'd say are arguably the only examples of modern directors who have successfully kept up mid budget careers making auteur films, everyone else seems to have either been forced into big blockbusterish productions or has had to keep to low arthouse budgets.

 

[Fedorgasm]

Sad for me to say because he's my favorite director, but Christopher Nolan.

He did nothing but pure gold until the dark Knight rises, which I still think was decent but it marked the first time his quality dropped from his last film. And then dunkirk was just such a disappointment. None of the clever writing I've become accustomed to, but then maybe I'm really only a fan of Jonathan Nolan.