Did Olympic wrestling's stock go down last night?

[RockUmSockUm]

It's proof that Jones' already lauded wrestling was even more underrated.

Why, because he landed a couple takedowns from the clinch? Have you ever watched real wrestling? A better demonstration of wrestling was Edgar vs Swanson.

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

Do not neglect the fact that the rules of folkstyle (aka collegiate) wrestling tends to translate better to MMA than freestyle and Greco-Roman.

There are many examples of US wrestlers who have had great success in collegiate wrestling only to have marginal success in freestyle/Greco and vice versa.

To an outsider its all "wrestling" and this is true to an extent, but at the highest levels of competition, those differences matter.

yep.

 

[capnlarge]

Cormier did the 2nd best against the best LHW champion of all-time. His stock only went down if you thought he was better than Jon Jones.

 

[heavyarms21]

Why, because he landed a couple takedowns from the clinch? Have you ever watched real wrestling? A better demonstration of wrestling was Edgar vs Swanson.

No because he outwrestled the most highly touted wrestler he has ever , a guy that had been dominating guys much bigger than him at HW , and DC was training with World Champion Gastalov alot.

 

[mkess101]

Why, because he landed a couple takedowns from the clinch? Have you ever watched real wrestling? A better demonstration of wrestling was Edgar vs Swanson.

I would say it's more that he completely neutralized the one area where DC was supposed to have a CLEAR advantage (wrestling).

In terms of MMA applied wrestling, it's pretty clear that Jones is actually a level above DC. Given that these guys are MMA fighters now and aren't competing in greco roman or freestyle, that's what matters. So apparently Jones' MMA wrestling WAS underrated. People thought it was great. Apparently it's not just great, it's as good as it gets in MMA.

 

[Adamant]

No. DC is not a current Olympic wrestler, nor did he medal in Olympic wrestling.

 

[mushishi]

Dan said he would beat his ass despite that. Now I guess he knows the difference.

Yeah, Dan should have told the truth and said he's too old to fight in any more title fights and just not get paid main event money.

 

[RB777]

That's a bad examplle. All those guys(I dunno about he flyweights) were All-American(Rashad missed it by one match, in a very stacked year, and beat Gregg Jones, a college wrestling GOAT.)

Different years have different talent levels, and the tournament is only a snapshot that isn't necessarily indicative of your overall year.

Chael was unranked in 1998. He became an All-American, by going 3-2 in the tournament. \

In 1999, he was ranked, again went 3-2, but missed All-American by one match.

Redshirted in 2000, came back in 2001. He was ranked highly, top 5 during the year. Was #6 seed, but lost by a point in the opening match. Chael was overall a better wrestler in 2001 than 1998, but was an All-American in 1998.

It's not so simple that Phil Davis was #1, Weidman was #3, therefore Davis>Weidman.

Anyway, DC was 15-0, won the SF GP, and his wrestling served him well during his career. Now all of a sudden he loses one match, and "Olympic wrestling is irrelevant in this sport! It means NOTHING!"

I would not say irrelevant, but it did not even seem to really come into play last night.

Thanks for the depth you've added to this topic.

I have never wrestled yet my favorite fighters Phillip Miller and Jon Jones who make incredible use of their wrestling.

 

[dabausplaya]

Try the grappling sub-forum; replies in the Heavies (UFC Discussion) will mostly suck.

Thank you

 

[RB777]

Yeah, Dan should have told the truth and said he's too old to fight in any more title fights and just not get paid main event money.

You make a good point there.

Personally I thought his gas tank would be better since he trained with Cain.

Once he could not make use of his game plan, he chased Jones around and it caught up with him...as did those body shots.

 

[ZFury]

Daniel Cormier is 36 years old, think if he got into MMA at the age Jones did.

 

[RB777]

No. DC is not a current Olympic wrestler, nor did he medal in Olympic wrestling.

I meant to say stock in regard to mma usefulness but I thought people would get it.

I did not word it right, sorry for the mix-up.

 

[Strange King]

mma has made fans more dumb, this thread is proof

 

[chardog]

it was overrated to start with. Matt lindland was a silver metalist...

this is a fight game, not wrestling match. Olympic level wrestling just means that you wrestle really good, doesnt mean you can take down a fighting opponent at will.

 

[RB777]

it was overrated to start with. Matt lindland was a silver metalist...

this is a fight game, not wrestling match. Olympic level wrestling just means that you wrestle really good, doesnt mean you can take down a fighting opponent at will.

Lindland is a great example...how many times has he knocked himself out on the take down?

Over reliance on wrestling seems to be a mixed bag theses days.

Does anyone remember when Mark Kerr knocked himself out against Yamamoto?

I wonder what the difference is in the padding of a wrestling mat and the octagon canvas?

 

[RB777]

mma has made fans more dumb, this thread is proof

It is not clear exactly what you mean...can you elaborate just a little?

This thread = has made mma fans more dumb?

I like where you are going with this...just please elaborate.

Thx!

 

[MarloStanfield]

wrassling isnt fighting

 

[RockUmSockUm]

I would say it's more that he completely neutralized the one area where DC was supposed to have a CLEAR advantage (wrestling).

In terms of MMA applied wrestling, it's pretty clear that Jones is actually a level above DC. Given that these guys are MMA fighters now and aren't competing in greco roman or freestyle, that's what matters. So apparently Jones' MMA wrestling WAS underrated. People thought it was great. Apparently it's not just great, it's as good as it gets in MMA.

Jones beat DC in the clinch and at holding a guy against the cage, but is that MMA wrestling? He landed a few takedowns but had little time in top control, and had little positional dominance except when he held DC against the cage.

DC's display of wrestling in MMA has been minimal considering he prefers to box. He's only landed a few takedowns in his fights and prefers to clinch and dirty box. If Jones' wrestling is better than DC's, that's not saying much.

 

[MMAFan232]

I think its fairly obvious that you cannot base who is going to out wrestle who in mma solely on wrestling credentials. We have seen time and time again many guys with great credentials bested in the wrestling department by those with lesser credentials or even none at all (GSP). MMA wrestling is a whole different ball game. Also add to the fact that if a guy likes Jones or GSP got the opportunity to wrestle at a D 1 school they may have very well become national champs.

 

[Rexx]

I was very impressed and honestly expected Cormier to have a wrestling advantage but there is a big difference between the sport of wrestling and the sport of MMA.

Gus' stock went up hugely for me. Jones had unreal TDD against Cormier yet Gus managed to take him down fairly easily that time and stuffed much of Jon's takedown attempts.