Deadspin: Whatever Happened To The UFC?

[Bigj383]

But people pay to watch the Cubs & Padres and they suck.
Better analogy is the lower tier UFC guys are like rookies or minor league players called up. Teams do put them in to play.

Hey I'm from San Diego!... What do you mean the Padres Suck?... Just because they've never won a world series.... and they are the only major league team to never pitch a no hitter.... doesn't mean they.... well I mean... ok they suck








I don't actually even watch baseball.

 

[Ughugh]

Every prospect starts as random fighter from country x. Then they either become contenders or journeymen.

Obviously this. Fight Night cards have traditionally been a mixture of Swick vs Burkman, Stout vs Fisher, Sanchez vs Parisyan, Evans vs Hoger, Anderson vs Leben etc.

At the time though they all more or less "stunk" according to the idiots. The only difference now is the fan:idiot ratio has gone down because there are so many new idiot fans that have entered the sport and don't understand the basic concept of it and just want to watch the ready made names who were brought up through these "watered down" cards.

 

[branchtan]

In team sports, a pro team rarely lowers their ticket prices when the team is sucking. Welcome to pro sports.

if GSP or Hendricks had a bad performance that might be a decent analogy

not a matter of a team sucking, it's a matter of them bringing up too many guys from the minors that shouldn't be there period.

secondly, you don't pay PPV money to watch team pro sports, they are provided on basic cable channels.

really weak attempt it must be past your bed time.

 

[Bigj383]

Good points but I think people are delusional if they think the PPVs haven't been getting worse. Not that I'm going to change your mind or anything..

In this tiny little microcosm of time that has been the last 6 months you have to realize something. First the 2 longest reigning champions in UFC history lost their titles... well one vacated the other lost it. Then that popular former champion suffered a sever injury. Of the 5 really established divisions 3 of the champs are currently injured and 1 has had issues with getting the right opponent on the right date. So basically UFC has been running with half a champion roster and the champs that are available are in the lesser established divisions.

So the first halfnof the year has been a little underwhelming. In the 2nd half you will see Jones vs Gus 2, Pettis vs Melendez, Cain vs Werdum, and likely Weidman/Machida vs Belfort. All headlining PPVs. Which may change the landscape drastically.

 

[Scamrock]

That is the mentality Dana chastised boxing for, now the UFC does that.

Except the UFC has had prelims and Fight Night cards for years.

I've been watching for a few years and that's the way the UFC has always done it...how would he get on boxing for doing the same?

You are both right, in a sense. This is how they have done it for a long time. But Dana does criticize boxing cards for having one big fight and all lesser/no names on the undercard. His claim is that they put on a better undercard. Now, I suppose whether he is right or not is in the eye of the beholder.

The way I see it is the UFC used to be, let's say a five-act concert with Jay Z, Tupac, Eminem, Dr Dre and Snoop Dogg.

Now, the UFC charges the same price they did for that show, but now the concert is Jay Z, maaaayyybe someone from the Wu Tang Clan, and then Kevin Federline, Everlast and Blizzard Man.

When did they ever put on anything that would be that stacked. Let's look at the peak of popularity for the UFC. The ratings and PPV buys were the highest in '09 and '10. So I'll split the difference and look at the first few PPVs of 2010.

UFC 108

Rashad Evans vs. Paulo Thiago
Paul Daley vs. Dustin Hazelett
Sam Stout vs. Joe Lauzon
Jim Miller vs. Duane Ludwig
Junior dos Santos vs. Gilbert Yvel

No title on this card.
Buyrate: 300k

UFC 109

Randy Couture vs. Mark Coleman
Chael Sonnen vs. Nate Marquardt
Paulo Thiago vs. Mike Swick
Demian Maia vs. Dan Miller
Matt Serra vs. Frank Trigg

No title fight.
Buyrate: 275k

UFC 110

Cain Velasquez vs. Minotauro Nogueira
Wanderlei Silva vs. Michael Bisping
George Sotiropoulos vs. Joe Stevenson
Ryan Bader vs. Keith Jardine
Mirko Cro Cop vs. Anthony Perosh

No title fight.
Buyrate: 240k

There you have the first 3 PPVs of one of the biggest years in MMA. No title fights and nothing that got enough interest to get more than a 300k buyrate. I didn't cherry pick these to prove a point. I just went right to the start of 2010 and that is what I got.

It wasn't until the next PPV, UFC 111 that you even got a title shot. Now, it looks like they are making up for lost time, because not only do they give us the WW title fight between GSP and Dan Hardy, but we also get the interim HW title fight between Carwin and Mir. Then they go on and stack the rest of the main card with Pellegrino/Camoes, Fitch/Saunders, and Miller/Bocek. Amazing, right?

I swear some of these cards are literally regional show level outside of the main event. Come on DFW at least come through with solid co-mains

A lot of these guys you've never heard of fighting in the prelims are regional champs. So the bottom of the barrel in the UFC are top shelf in the regional circuit. Even the guys on the Fight Pass prelims of a Fight Night are better talent than you seem to realize. Granted, some don't belong in the UFC, and those guys lose and get weeded out. But most of them have earned their shot by beating all of their opponents in the regional promotions.

Have you ever been to a regional show? Just to give you an idea Joey Beltran was a HW champion in a regional show here in San Diego. Get to the UFC and he sucks compared to the rest of the UFC butbhe was the elite of his regional division. All the lowest level guysnin the UFC steamroll guys in regional shows.

Exactly. Look at UFC 170 for a good example.

Pedro Munhoz: RFA BW champ
Aljamain Sterling: CFFC BW champ
Zach Makovsky: RFA FLW champ and former Bellator BW champ
Josh Sampo: CFA FLW champ
Ernest Chavez: BAMMA LW champ
Yosdenis Cedeno: CFA LW champ

All reigning champs on the regional scene when they got the call to compete in the UFC.

Maybe because they know going in that it isn't the NFL or NHL they're watching, so the expectations are considerably lower?

If you're watching the NFL/NHL, you know you're watching he best of the best in the world.

The UFC, uh, not so much lately.

The UFC controls a larger % of the best talent than ever before. The only division where you can even really make an argument than a sizable bulk of top talent is outside of the UFC is the BW division. While sometimes guys have to pull out of fights and lesser fighters have to fill in as replacements, the best pretty much do fight the best in the UFC. The best fighters in the world fight there, and they do compete against each other.

Now, the UFC does have a lot of guys who aren't among the best competing in their promotion. But that has always been the case. They have been using prelims to farm prospects since before Zuffa purchased the UFC. They have been using Fight Night as a way to showcase TUF talent and farm prospects since 2005. This is all nothing new. Now, there is more of it than before, but that shouldn't take away from the upper tier fights/fighters because those still happen, and are usually saved for PPV cards.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

I swear some of these cards are literally regional show level outside of the main event. Come on DFW at least come through with solid co-mains

Some people fall for the UFC label, and therefore think every fight is important. If those same fights were on AXS TV, how many "UFC fans" who "watch any fight they can" would watch them?

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

But why? Wouldn't you just watch the ones you are interested in and then be indifferent about the others? What exactly is the complaint?

I gamble on college football, which makes bowl interesting to me, even if I don't care about the teams. People though say it cheapens the bowl system when there are so many bowls.

 

[Scamrock]

you're getting legit prospect confused with "random fighter from country x", which is much more akin to the ufc's strategy

For the most part, the American Prelims and Fight Nights are made up of legit prospects, many of them champions, undefeated, or even both on the regional circuit. Now, with the international Fight Nights and TUFs, they are bringing in some talent that is a little suspect. But once they are there, they still have to perform. If they can't win in the UFC, they will be released. Some of them might get gifted contracts, but once they do, it's still sink or swim.

There are 75 fighters on the current roster who have competed in the UFC and are undefeated in the promotion. 37 of them have multiple wins. But even for the ones who are 1-0, until somebody in the UFC can beat them, you can't really say they don't belong. Also, out of the fighters who have signed with the UFC but have yet to compete in the promotion, 22 of them have undefeated records. Another 14 of them only have 1 loss on their resume. A lot of these guys are good prospects and deserve a shot. Most of them will be competing on the prelims and Fight Nights. So it really doesn't interfere with the PPV main cards. They will be prospects fighting on platforms designed to farm prospects. So I really don't see what the big deal is.

 

[branchtan]

In this tiny little microcosm of time that has been the last 6 months you have to realize something. First the 2 longest reigning champions in UFC history lost their titles... well one vacated the other lost it. Then that popular former champion suffered a sever injury. Of the 5 really established divisions 3 of the champs are currently injured and 1 has had issues with getting the right opponent on the right date. So basically UFC has been running with half a champion roster and the champs that are available are in the lesser established divisions.

So the first halfnof the year has been a little underwhelming. In the 2nd half you will see Jones vs Gus 2, Pettis vs Melendez, Cain vs Werdum, and likely Weidman/Machida vs Belfort. All headlining PPVs. Which may change the landscape drastically.

Geee einstein, I have never thought of that!!!!

That must be the sole factor to account for the declining quality, no way that them putting on the most shows per year that they ever have could have something to do with that too!!!! /sarcasm

There have been tons of threads on this topic and most people who follow MMA closely agree that the UFC is oversaturating their product, including the author of the article. It's nearly impossible to increase the number of events you do substantially and maintain the same quality of PPVs that you having when you put on fewer events. It's a basic concept.

Then again, whenever someone criticizes the UFC, you are quick to jump in with some stupid yet condescending argument like this one. Weren't you the one a while back who was arguing that top10 MMA fighter generally get paid as much as top10 boxers? That's all I need to know about you...

 

[Bigj383]

Some people fall for the UFC label, and therefore think every fight is important. If those same fights were on AXS TV, how many "UFC fans" who "watch any fight they can" would watch them?

I watch Bellator, WSOF, and Titan FC... I don't have AXS TV but would watch if I had it.

Like pointed out before the guys that supposedly suck in the UFC are champs in the org that airs on Axs. Actually a lot of those smaller orgs like RFA, Titan, etc have UFC out clauses in their contracts. Meaning any fighter succeeding in these orgs and cleaning house can be signed by the UFC exclusively even mid contract.

They do this because they know they can draw better prospects by offering this.

 

[Unbreakabull]

UFC 108

Rashad Evans vs. Paulo Thiago
Paul Daley vs. Dustin Hazelett
Sam Stout vs. Joe Lauzon
Jim Miller vs. Duane Ludwig
Junior dos Santos vs. Gilbert Yvel

No title on this card.
Buyrate: 300k

UFC 109

Randy Couture vs. Mark Coleman
Chael Sonnen vs. Nate Marquardt
Paulo Thiago vs. Mike Swick
Demian Maia vs. Dan Miller
Matt Serra vs. Frank Trigg

No title fight.
Buyrate: 275k

UFC 110

Cain Velasquez vs. Minotauro Nogueira
Wanderlei Silva vs. Michael Bisping
George Sotiropoulos vs. Joe Stevenson
Ryan Bader vs. Keith Jardine
Mirko Cro Cop vs. Anthony Perosh

No title fight.
Buyrate: 240k

There you have the first 3 PPVs of one of the biggest years in MMA. No title fights and nothing that got enough interest to get more than a 300k buyrate. I didn't cherry pick these to prove a point. I just went right to the start of 2010 and that is what I got.

Well I'm not sure what the point is. You said the cards weren't stacked and the numbers are lower than 300K. Makes sense, right?

But if you examine the cards more closely you will notice something all of them do have in common: A HW fight and former champions fighting. And for a shit card that you said isn't stacked, even an event opener between HW's can beat a BW or FLW title fight.

 

[riddleofsteel]

My god they are free fights. Who watches each and every boxing event that takes place? No one.

Exactly. The UFC is going in and putting on a fight card in a place that doesn't get much mma. And people outside of that area are upset about it.

 

[Bigj383]

Geee einstein, I have never thought of that!!!!

That must be the sole factor to account for the declining quality, no way that them putting on the most shows per year that they ever have could have something to do with that too!!!! /sarcasm

There have been tons of threads on this topic and most people who follow MMA closely agree that the UFC is oversaturating their product, including the author of the article. It's nearly impossible to increase the number of events you do substantially and maintain the same quality of PPVs that you having when you put on fewer events. It's a basic concept.

Then again, whenever someone criticizes the UFC, you are quick to jump in with some stupid yet condescending argument like this one. Weren't you the one a while back who was arguing that top10 MMA fighter generally get paid as much as top10 boxers? That's all I need to know about you...

It's mainly because there are a ton of sheep on sherdog who can't think for themselves. Even if your opinion is in the majority it doesn't make it true. I haven't found a person yet who can site examples from the past that cards were better outside UFC 100 which is an anomaly. Yet plenty show examples of cards that are exactly on par with carcs today.

GSP was the highest paid MMA fighter. He made between 4-5 million a fight. Which is all I have ever stated.

 

[Scamrock]

Some people fall for the UFC label, and therefore think every fight is important. If those same fights were on AXS TV, how many "UFC fans" who "watch any fight they can" would watch them?

Here is the thing, though, many of the fighters in question have already dominated regional shows. Now is the time when a lot of these undefeated prospects and regional champs would go somewhere like WEC, EliteXC, IFL, Strikeforce, etc and either compete against each other or against some lower level veterans. But second tier promotions aren't viable like they used to be.

The Eddie Alvarez situation showed us how Bellator's binding contracts can prevent the UFC from getting some of that talent if the other promotion doesn't want to let them go. On top of that, why wait for the next Michael Chandler to climb the ranks of another promotion and make him more expensive to pick up as a prospect/rising star when you can pick him up sooner and let him develop in your promotion. He is also going to come a lot cheaper, and when he hits that level, you already have him and don't have to try and wrangle him away from a competitor. Now, even Ali Abdelaziz, the matchmaker from WSOF is bitching about guys wanting out of their contracts to compete in the UFC, saying he isn't going to do that for anyone else.

It might just be easier to pick guys up in the developmental stage, fresh off the regional shows and farm them in their own promotion. After all, that is what Fight Night is for. Now that they have the increased number of Fight Night events, they have room for them.

I gamble on college football, which makes bowl interesting to me, even if I don't care about the teams. People though say it cheapens the bowl system when there are so many bowls.

I dunno. Not sure why anyone would bitch. The conference champs have been determined already. Only one bowl is for the national title. So the bowls are pretty much meaningless other than to just give some teams one more game for their fans to watch, or in your case, bet on. Seems harmless to me. Plus, it makes money. I can see the benefit, but can't really see any negatives.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Hey I'm from San Diego!... What do you mean the Padres Suck?... Just because they've never won a world series.... and they are the only major league team to never pitch a no hitter.... doesn't mean they.... well I mean... ok they suck
I don't actually even watch baseball.

I'm in San Diego, too. I'm going by their record, they are doing pretty bad but people still watch them. Sports are about more than just a winning record.
(you are right about their history though)

 

[Fists of Fire]

You say nobody cares, but people do. There are people who were big fans of WEC. There were people who were fans of WMMA before it was in the UFC. There are even people who followed TPF to watch the flyweights. So just because you don't care, it doesn't mean we don't. So by "nobody cares", you really mean you don't care and you think they should be catering to you.

As far as no big stars left, who cares? You like who you like. Do you need the approval of others to know who to cheer for? I don't need a guy to pull in a million PPV buys for him to matter to me. Didn't somebody on one of these threads say their favorite fighter was Cole Miller? He doesn't need Cole to be a big star. He is just a fan. I know who the champs are. I know who the contenders are. I know who the guys are I get excited to watch. I know the prospects I like to follow. I don't need buyrates and ratings to justify that.

As far as the cards being watered down, well, for you, I'm sure they are if you don't like the sub-lightweight divisions or the women. I was reading where somebody said PPV main cards should pretty much be only top 15 guys. So I went back and looked. If you look at the PPV main cards, it pretty much is all top 15 guys. The few exceptions are guys who were late replacements for ones who were top 15, or prelim fights or replacement fights that were taking the place of fights between top 15 guys that got scrapped for injuries and whatnot.

Do some research and youll see that theres a pretty large percentage on here that dont care too much for 125ers, wmma, or that the ufc is adding another womens division. Remember this is an mma site. If that many people on here dont approve, why would casuals?

The ufc needs STARS to sell ppvs and to bring in new fans. You think new fans will tune in to see Cole Miller?

Cards are watered down. No way around it.

 

[Bigj383]

I'm in San Diego, too. I'm going by their record, they are doing pretty bad but people still watch them. Sports are about more than just a winning record.
(you are right about their history though)

My father in law loves then Padres. I know a lot of people who like them. Hell I'll even watch them if someone else is already watching the game and I happen to be in the room. It's just not a sport I seek out or I would watch by myself.

 

[Bigj383]

Do some research and youll see that theres a pretty large percentage on here that dont care too much for 125ers, wmma, or that the ufc is adding another womens division. Remember this is an mma site. If that many people on here dont approve, why would casuals?

The ufc needs STARS to sell ppvs and to bring in new fans. You think new fans will tune in to see Cole Miller?

Cards are watered down. No way around it.

Because people on here don't in any way reflect the casual fan base. In fact people on sherdog are much more resistant to change than casual fans. It takes time for people to come to terms with changes. It takes some people longer than others. Those that are resistant to the change are often the most vocal.

 

[branchtan]

It's mainly because there are a ton of sheep on sherdog who can't think for themselves. Even if your opinion is in the majority it doesn't make it true. I haven't found a person yet who can site examples from the past that cards were better outside UFC 100 which is an anomaly. Yet plenty show examples of cards that are exactly on par with carcs today.

GSP was the highest paid MMA fighter. He made between 4-5 million a fight. Which is all I have ever stated.

Nah I remember you grasping at straws, even basking in how a guy like Bisbing (now outside of the top10) made over 120k a fight. But that's irrelevant to this topic.

I've seen threads compare years that say the contrary, but I'm too lazy to go searching. It's a basic concept - you put on more events and your quality declines - especially when you have to take guys who would been main carders on PPV prior and make them headline the surplus events. I know they are signing more guys but most of these guys are filler.

All you have to do is look at the shitstrom of posters after 80% of event nowadays claiming they want their money back... Sherdoggers are fickle but it wasn't that way back in 2010. We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose...

 

[PeteGmeng***]

Some people fall for the UFC label, and therefore think every fight is important. If those same fights were on AXS TV, how many "UFC fans" who "watch any fight they can" would watch them?

Yup.