Deadspin: Whatever Happened To The UFC?

[Scamrock]

Well I'm not sure what the point is. You said the cards weren't stacked and the numbers are lower than 300K. Makes sense, right?

But if you examine the cards more closely you will notice something all of them do have in common: A HW fight and former champions fighting. And for a shit card that you said isn't stacked, even an event opener between HW's can beat a BW or FLW title fight.

Do you honestly think that if they made a PPV today without a champ headlining that people wouldn't bitch, even if there were former champs headlining? Hell, every PPV now is headlined by a title fight and people still bitch.

The last time a PPV didn't have a title fight was UFC 161: Evans/Henderson. Before that it was UFC 153: Silva/Bonnar, but in that case, even though it wasn't a title fight, one guy was a current champ. UFC 147: Franklin/Wanderlei II. Going back into 2011 you see it a little more.

My point isn't that those cards weren't good. I certainly enjoyed them. It was to show that back in the day when cards were allegedly super stacked, they weren't really as stacked as people seem to recall. Like I said, if we had PPV cards with no title, people would bitch. If we had 3 in a row, people would go apeshit.

I don't necessarily think the events now are better or worse. Though there are twice as many divisions now, which means twice the titles and twice the contenders. With less PPVs, you would think that means an improved PPV main card. But the problem is two-fold, I believe.

First, I think our standards have increased. In addition to having more champs and contenders to put on the PPVs, I truly believe the champs today are better than they were then, and so are the contenders. So what is the problem? Well injuries play a part. But back then, you could put on a card without a title fight, have upper-mid level guys fighting each other, and big name veterans in squash matches against guys people don't care about all on a PPV main card. That wasn't to say people didn't bitch then. They did. They also spoke with their dollars. They didn't buy the PPV. But for some reason, we look at it like the superior product to that of today, even if it isn't, and expect more from today's product. Maybe it's just that things are always better in retrospect. Lesser known up and comers and prospects became known names. But the guys today are still lesser known. Maybe 5 years down the road, people will look back at some of these shows and comment about all of the big names.

Part two, and this feeds into part one, is that some people, for whatever reason, don't like sub-LW and WMMA divisions. So for me, as I said, I see it as twice as many champs, twice as many contenders...twice as many big important fights, but with less PPV fights to fill. But for some people, it means less PPVs, and only half the fights they care about. So rather than being expanded in a good way, it's like the product was cut in half. I get it. But it's not like that for everyone. There are lots of WEC fans and WMMA fans that like what is going on. But for the others, I get it. But it's not because there is less talent on the PPVs, it's because they don't like the content despite how good the fighters/fights are or aren't. It's not about quality, but rather personal preference.

But again, I'm not trying to say it was bad or worse back then, just that it wasn't so much more stacked/loaded than it is now like people seem to believe.

 

[riddleofsteel]

if GSP or Hendricks had a bad performance that might be a decent analogy

not a matter of a team sucking, it's a matter of them bringing up too many guys from the minors that shouldn't be there period.

secondly, you don't pay PPV money to watch team pro sports, they are provided on basic cable channels.

really weak attempt it must be past your bed time.

People pay for cable packages like NFL ticket, MLB extra innings, NBA league pass. People pay to go watch shitty teams.

I think you are overestimating the overall quality of some of the past cards.
And yes, if you don't like the look of the fight card then don't pay for it.

 

[Bigj383]

Nah I remember you grasping at straws, even basking in how a guy like Bisbing (now outside of the top10) made over 120k a fight. But that's irrelevant to this topic.

I've seen threads compare years that say the contrary, but I'm too lazy to go searching. It's a basic concept - you put on more events and your quality declines - especially when you have to take guys who would been main carders on PPV prior and make them headline the surplus events. I know they are signing more guys but most of these guys are filler.

All you have to do is look at the shitstrom of posters after 80% of event nowadays claiming they want their money back... Sherdoggers are fickle but it wasn't that way back in 2010. We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose...

It seems every who complains is too lazy to do research or takes a fights out of context of their time.

There have been threads about Watered down UFC cards since 2006.

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/mma-watered-down-459997/

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/ufc-will-even-more-watered-down-after-these-buyouts-475762/

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/me-ufc-64-most-watered-down-card-yet-443232/

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f44/ufc-too-watered-down-408040/

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/ufc-watered-down-1490381/

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/watered-down-cards-1415441/

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/ufc-getting-watered-down-1106497/

Read them ^ Go ahead.... yeah UFC is watered down is new phenomenon. ... people have been saying that shit for nearly a decade

 

[riddleofsteel]

I've been watching for a few years and that's the way the UFC has always done it...how would he get on boxing for doing the same?

You are both right, in a sense. This is how they have done it for a long time. But Dana does criticize boxing cards for having one big fight and all lesser/no names on the undercard. His claim is that they put on a better undercard. Now, I suppose whether he is right or not is in the eye of the beholder.

Also part of the argument was that boxing ppvs only showed a few fights. It was pretty common for them to have long gaps in their broadcasts of just the commentators talking. Sometimes they'd be standing by the ring yapping & you could see the lower legs of the boxers in the ring, instead of showing that fight you were subjected to 15-30 minutes of talk.

 

[Chappi]

yup. cards are still filled with names people dont know.

pretty soon it'll all be over cuz people are finally starting to train GLORY instead

I see what you did here, but there are still plenty people who train UFC.

 

[Diet Otsuka]

"Jeremy Stephens, best known for being arrested."

What a dumb thing to say.
Best known for being with the company long term, fighting high level competition and producing some nasty knockouts.

 

[riddleofsteel]

I gamble on college football, which makes bowl interesting to me, even if I don't care about the teams. People though say it cheapens the bowl system when there are so many bowls.

I dunno. Not sure why anyone would bitch. The conference champs have been determined already. Only one bowl is for the national title. So the bowls are pretty much meaningless other than to just give some teams one more game for their fans to watch, or in your case, bet on. Seems harmless to me. Plus, it makes money. I can see the benefit, but can't really see any negatives.

What probably causes the most bitching about the number of bowl games is that .500 teams can play in a bowl game. How the bowl tie-ins work. How you can get into a bowl game without beating a single decent team. So, basically it is just an extension of bitching about the regular season.

 

[Scamrock]

Do some research and youll see that theres a pretty large percentage on here that dont care too much for 125ers, wmma, or that the ufc is adding another womens division. Remember this is an mma site. If that many people on here dont approve, why would casuals?

The ufc needs STARS to sell ppvs and to bring in new fans. You think new fans will tune in to see Cole Miller?

Cards are watered down. No way around it.

A large percentage also enjoy the smaller weights and even the women. I'm well aware not everyone enjoys it. But that is an issue of personal preference, not quality. You might not like flyweight fights. That doesn't mean Demetrious Johnson isn't a top tier fighter. It doesn't mean a flyweight fight between top top fighters can't be as good as a fight between two top lightweights, middleweights, or heavyweights. It just means you might not enjoy it as much. The quality isn't watered down.

Does the UFC need stars? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. They might not make as much per PPV, but they are probably still turning a profit. Plus, they have so many Fight Nights that even if they make less per show, they very well could be making more in the end.

So I don't know if they need stars or not. But I don't. That really isn't my concern. I don't really care about new fans. I just like watching fights, and I actually enjoy the product. I was a fan of WMMA back when Megumi Fujii was the Fedor of WMMA. Satoko Shinashi was one of my favorite fighters to watch. I was a big WEC fan. I've always liked watching top regional talent and following them when they finally get signed to the UFC. So all of those things people bitched about, I was excited for. So the product has been good to me.

So we can argue about what is best for the UFC, or what they should or shouldn't do, but as long as they are making money and keep putting on fights, that really doesn't matter. We can argue about what I like compared to what you like. We can point to things about the events or roster we don't like. But I really don't think we can argue about quality of the fighters. The champs are better than they used to be. The contenders are better than they used to be. This includes divisions that you, I, or anyone else might not like due to personal preference.

 

[Agnawedbone]

Do you honestly think that if they made a PPV today without a champ headlining that people wouldn't bitch, even if there were former champs headlining? Hell, every PPV now is headlined by a title fight and people still bitch.

The last time a PPV didn't have a title fight was UFC 161: Evans/Henderson. Before that it was UFC 153: Silva/Bonnar, but in that case, even though it wasn't a title fight, one guy was a current champ. UFC 147: Franklin/Wanderlei II. Going back into 2011 you see it a little more.

My point isn't that those cards weren't good. I certainly enjoyed them. It was to show that back in the day when cards were allegedly super stacked, they weren't really as stacked as people seem to recall. Like I said, if we had PPV cards with no title, people would bitch. If we had 3 in a row, people would go apeshit.

I don't necessarily think the events now are better or worse. Though there are twice as many divisions now, which means twice the titles and twice the contenders. With less PPVs, you would think that means an improved PPV main card. But the problem is two-fold, I believe.

First, I think our standards have increased. In addition to having more champs and contenders to put on the PPVs, I truly believe the champs today are better than they were then, and so are the contenders. So what is the problem? Well injuries play a part. But back then, you could put on a card without a title fight, have upper-mid level guys fighting each other, and big name veterans in squash matches against guys people don't care about all on a PPV main card. That wasn't to say people didn't bitch then. They did. They also spoke with their dollars. They didn't buy the PPV. But for some reason, we look at it like the superior product to that of today, even if it isn't, and expect more from today's product. Maybe it's just that things are always better in retrospect. Lesser known up and comers and prospects became known names. But the guys today are still lesser known. Maybe 5 years down the road, people will look back at some of these shows and comment about all of the big names.

Part two, and this feeds into part one, is that some people, for whatever reason, don't like sub-LW and WMMA divisions. So for me, as I said, I see it as twice as many champs, twice as many contenders...twice as many big important fights, but with less PPV fights to fill. But for some people, it means less PPVs, and only half the fights they care about. So rather than being expanded in a good way, it's like the product was cut in half. I get it. But it's not like that for everyone. There are lots of WEC fans and WMMA fans that like what is going on. But for the others, I get it. But it's not because there is less talent on the PPVs, it's because they don't like the content despite how good the fighters/fights are or aren't. It's not about quality, but rather personal preference.

But again, I'm not trying to say it was bad or worse back then, just that it wasn't so much more stacked/loaded than it is now like people seem to believe.

This guy sees how it really is. Self awareness on sherdog is a severely lacking quality.

 

[Scamrock]

Nah I remember you grasping at straws, even basking in how a guy like Bisbing (now outside of the top10) made over 120k a fight. But that's irrelevant to this topic.

I've seen threads compare years that say the contrary, but I'm too lazy to go searching. It's a basic concept - you put on more events and your quality declines - especially when you have to take guys who would been main carders on PPV prior and make them headline the surplus events. I know they are signing more guys but most of these guys are filler.

All you have to do is look at the shitstrom of posters after 80% of event nowadays claiming they want their money back... Sherdoggers are fickle but it wasn't that way back in 2010. We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose...

If you put on more events, your quality declines unless you are bringing in enough quality talent to cover the increase in events. The number of weight classes has doubled. This means the number of champions and contenders has also doubled. The number of PPVs has dropped to 13 over the last few years. So there should be enough to cover the load. But like I've said, not everyone likes all of the new divisions, though that is personal taste, not quality. Also, injuries have had an impact, I believe. If we were getting more title fights from the bigger champs, I think it would help. We've had big name champs lose their titles and others out injured. Hopefully we'll se a big turnaround in the last half of the year.

Also part of the argument was that boxing ppvs only showed a few fights. It was pretty common for them to have long gaps in their broadcasts of just the commentators talking. Sometimes they'd be standing by the ring yapping & you could see the lower legs of the boxers in the ring, instead of showing that fight you were subjected to 15-30 minutes of talk.

This is also very true. At least we've had the option to watch all of the fights on the card. Though I have to say, boxing is getting much better, not only at making undercards more available, but having better quality undercards. So it is going in the right direction.

"Jeremy Stephens, best known for being arrested."

What a dumb thing to say.
Best known for being with the company long term, fighting high level competition and producing some nasty knockouts.

People who aren't more than casual watchers aren't going to know Jeremy Stephens from Adam. Those who do are more likely to remember him for his fights with guys like Stout and Davis.

 

[riddleofsteel]

This is also very true. At least we've had the option to watch all of the fights on the card. Though I have to say, boxing is getting much better, not only at making undercards more available, but having better quality undercards. So it is going in the right direction.

Yes, boxing has greatly improved that aspect of their ppvs and hbo/showtime fight cards. Overall a lot more boxing being aired.

 

[Jacob Carter]

My wife is a big fan of the watered down free cards that I don't have to spend any money on.

 

[Scamrock]

This guy sees how it really is. Self awareness on sherdog is a severely lacking quality.

I just want people to realize they aren't the only one in the room. Different people like different shit. No matter what the UFC does, they are going to piss somebody off, so of course people will always bitch and be dissatisfied. There are hundreds of people on this forum that think the UFC should cater to them specifically. It's okay to be selfish and want what is best for yourself, but it's not realistic to expect it.

 

[Loiosh]

I see you come from the Emjay school of debate, where every answer to every question is "leave", or "don't watch". Why waste time even responding? If you don't like the thread, leave. How's that? It obviously is giving a message that offends your sensibilities.

You said you were losing interest, I was just making an observation. Those aren't my answers to every question, but they're certainly my answer to this one.

 

[Loiosh]

Because MMA and the UFC used to be more enjoyable - and could be again, with some fixes.

I wouldn't go to a board about Track & Field and tell them how boring it is, because it accomplishes nothing. I don't like it, never liked it, and never will, no matter how they might tweak it.
The UFC, OTOH, could improve dramatically, with some adjustments. And if enough public opinion gathers, they do have to react sometimes.

What fixes do you think we need?

Personally, if I had to pick one time to watch MMA, it would be this one.

 

[ThunderL1ps]

The Zuffa Zombie defense team is out in full force. It seems their budget hasn't been affected. They must work very cheaply.

Good article that points out the lies the UFC tries to get people to buy into.

 

[209Homie]

The Zuffa Zombie defense team is out in full force. It seems their budget hasn't been affected. They must work very cheaply.

Good article that points out the lies the UFC tries to get people to buy into.

[YT]aNUr__-VZeQ[/YT]
haha i'm not buying into these terrible cards.

 

[AtomicPanther]

He's spot on. 5 years ago the UFC was the talk of the town, now it's just there. I didn't know there were 2 events this weekend, and I have no interest in paying for an internet streaming service. If I'm not doing anything else, maybe I'll watch the FS1 show, but if there's a good baseball game on, I'll probably flip to the fights now and then.

5 years ago, no way that would be the case. UFC has become boring, I predict that 80% of the fights will be either hugging on the fence or hugging on the ground. That's the "play it safe" environment the UFC has created.

 

[SuperNerd]

can we have a MMA sucks section?

I'm tired of reading "there is too much too watch, too many stats, too many people, I liked when it was a once a month thing. with only 10 names to remember. now they're always around. fights are everywhere. so I dont wanna watch it all, it all sucks"

Give these guys a circle to jerk in, mods, until they're distracted by something else.

 

[Jocke]

The UFC just needs to call these inbetween cards what they are, prospect watch because that's what it is. If they would stop promoting them as real UFC events and more of a farm event it wouldnt garner so much hate.