Deadspin: Whatever Happened To The UFC?

[pointfighter]

Like I said to dumb to see the big picture. Lack of stars today is a result of failing that happened 3 years ago. You will see the results of this years changes two or three years from now.

I don't see Zuffa building any stars at all at the moment

 

[Which Doctor]

Weight classes can't be compared to teams in my opinion and that is where the analogy fails. The fighters in the new weight classes will still be the best in the world and thus actually strengthen the roster talent wise. We would not have guys like Dillashaw, Bagautinov, Barao, Aldo, DJ etc. if UFC did not bring in the lighter weight classes.

The analogy holds via dilution. Mighty mouse may not have been the champ at Bantam, but he was one of the top 10. Now you have flyweight as an option and all the guys who didn't think they have a shot at the bantamweight crown now move down. You've split the talent.

I'm not against the low weight classes, just stating that the analogy holds.

 

[Bigj383]

That's not what it is though. If the NBA brought in shit level Roysteen Wee, Dave Galera and TUF china level teams nowhere near NBA level just for demographics or profits. That is the comparison. Those and some of these Aussie, Swedish, Polish, etc fighters are garbage and low level. And they sign more low level guys on top of that to face them.

BTW basketball has caught on well globally. If it hasn't I'd love to here what you think of how well MMA has caught on.

Some of the TUF China guys are low level but that is to introduce the sport to a new market and they were still the best from that market. That market will be a lot better within a year or two. One FC will actually help the china expansion as well.

If there are international teams on NBA level they should be included if the NBA had any interest in growing beyond it's current size. I think NBA is ok with not having all the best talent.

 

[Degen Gambler]

I don't see Zuffa building any stars at all at the moment

You mean burying Alexander Gustafsson on a fightpass card isn't a good way to build him up?

 

[orangecuse]

Some of the TUF China guys are low level but that is to introduce the sport to a new market and they were still the best from that market. That market will be a lot better within a year or two. One FC will actually help the china expansion as well.

If there are international teams on NBA level they should be included if the NBA had any interest in growing beyond it's current size. I think NBA is ok with not having all the best talent.

Right but that is watering down the product in hopes of something in the future. I understand the long term intentions. It doesn't change the fact that they are low level and put on costly "Superbowl of MMA" cards thus watering down the current product.

 

[Bigj383]

I don't see Zuffa building any stars at all at the moment

Holy hell! More shows = more exposure; fighters fighting more often = more exposure. More exposure today = future star tomorrow....

Not everyone can pull a Connor McGregor. Most stars takes years to build.

 

[Which Doctor]

UFC doesn't pretend anything with the level of it's fighters.

I'm going to us small numbers to explain this to you so you maybe understand.

Lets say Pre TUF and early spike years there are a total of 100 fighters globally. UFC houses the top 10% that's 10 fighters from a small pool.

During the growing years due to the increased popularity of the sport there are now 250 fighters. UFC take the top 10% and now has 25 fighters. But these 25 are actually more elite than the previous 10 and the UFC is actually more exclusive despite adding 15 more fighters they have excluded now 225 instead of just 90.

Today lets say there are 500 fighters globally and UFC houses the top 10% which is now 50. These 50 are again even more talented because the total pool of fighters is so much deeper. UFC still is showing just the top 10% of fighters there is just more fighters in the world now.

If UFC failed to expand its roster at the same rate MMA has expanded globally it is failing to bring all the top fighters into 1 org.

You start with 50 fighters, out of a 1000, hypothetically. So only 50 best fighters can make it in to the UFC. At some point all the players/fighter get tv time.

Now time passes, you increase the number of fighters to 150 players, out of 5000. And all those 150 get tv exposure time.

You have diluted the product because of the Org no longer is centered around the top 50 players/fighters. It doesn't matter how much better fighters have become because evolution happens across the board. Mediocre fighters today are better than mediocre fighters of yesteryear, but they are still mediocre compared to their peers. And the very best fighters today are still that much better than good fighters as the very best were in their day against their good fighters. There is never going to be more 50 best than the 50 best no matter how many fighters or how good they've become as a group.

Add to that the fact that although they have put on more cards to accommodate the increased roster, in general a fans time and disposable income hasn't changed. So if I bought x amount of dollars worth of PPVs that could fit into x amount of time available, now my value per dollar and time is lowered to accommodate the increase in roster.

 

[Wild Mushroom]

The analogy holds via dilution. Mighty mouse may not have been the champ at Bantam, but he was one of the top 10. Now you have flyweight as an option and all the guys who didn't think they have a shot at the bantamweight crown now move down. You've split the talent.

I'm not against the low weight classes, just stating that the analogy holds.

Not all bantamweights can move down. The ones who can will now have a proper weight division. Smaller guys who would not have been able to compete in the UFC because of size, not skill/talent, can now fight in the flw division. This will not dilude UFC's talent pool at all. It makes it stronger because highly skilled lighter fighters can now compete in a proper division.

This team sport analogy only holds water if we are talking about fighters being signed to already existing weight classes. Not adding new weight classes. All the TUF contestants being signed could be considered dilution as an example.

 

[Degen Gambler]

Right but that is watering down the product in hopes of something in the future. I understand the long term intentions. It doesn't change the fact that they are low level and put on costly "Superbowl of MMA" cards thus watering down the current product.

Agreed. They are basically rolling their minor league into the big league. Of course people will realize this and get irritated. If the NBA started having the first half of every game played by their D league guys the fans would get mad too. The UFC is spreading the "big league" guys over too many events and making people sit through minor league fights so they can watch the fights they actually want to see that are headlining these zombie cards.

Put the minor league guys on their own card and I can watch them at my leisure. Put the big league guys on their own card and space those events out a couple weeks to promote and build excitement. How about a fuckin primetime series once in a while?

 

[Bigj383]

Right but that is watering down the product in hopes of something in the future. I understand the long term intentions. It doesn't change the fact that they are low level and put on costly "Superbowl of MMA" cards thus watering down the current product.

Are you obsessed with catch frases. You are glomming on to one like it means anything. UFC 1 was filled with low level talent for the good of the future of the sport... So many fans are obsessed with the right now. UFC didn't put TUF China or UFC Macau or Singapore on tv let alone big PPV. UFC made a card meant to appeal to the local audience to break into a market that holds huge potential for growth.

These events have almost 0 effect on other events and it hasn't watered down any events surrounding them. These few events that UFC doesn't even sgow on TV in the US are watered down and that's a problem why?

These events weren't even headlined by popular fighters for fuck sakes.

 

[Natman2939]

Damn that's well put.

Not only showing how weak the main events (a 2 fight losing streak vs a 3 fight losing streak someone's gotta get a win!) but also the adding 33 teams analogy--despite being aimed more at the increase in events--makes me think of the 3 lighter weight classes.

They all got added practically at the same time and suddenly started taking space on cards from more established weight classes

oops did I say 3... I meant 4 if you count WBW (women's 135)

 

[Which Doctor]

Not all bantamweights can move down. The ones who can will now have a proper weight division. Smaller guys who would not have been able to compete in the UFC because of size, not skill/talent, can now fight in the flw division. This will not dilude UFC's talent pool at all. It makes it stronger because highly skilled lighter fighters can now compete in a proper division.

This team sport analogy only holds water if we are talking about fighters being signed to already existing weight classes. Not adding new weight classes. All the TUF contestants being signed could be considered dilution as an example.

It still dilutes it. for the time being.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Knocks it out of the park.

 

[VulcanNervPinch]

Holy hell! More shows = more exposure; fighters fighting more often = more exposure. More exposure today = future star tomorrow....

You're really not grasping things very well for someone who like to call other people dumb.

More events, more fighters, and an overall higher level of skill does NOT result in more stars.


Even a vague familiarity with buyrates clearly illustrates this.
The quantity of events is up from 5 yrs ago
The overall level of fighting skill is up from 5 years ago
The average buyrates are down.

(And it's not just 5 years ago, either. It's true for 6. And 7. And 4. And 8.)


More shows = more fighters, more fighters = less fan familiarity with individual fighters, less fan familiarity = less interest, fewer stars, and fewer buys.

 

[Guitarmbar]

His metaphor is a flop. All pro sports have farm systems, and people support and watch those teams. Why would that be any different than the UFC? And impressive records aren't what make good cards. Anderson Silva and GSP are the two most dominant fighters in history and I have all but fallen asleep during some of their fights.

 

[marvinparsons]

I agree with the article. The talent level hasn't jumped that dramatically in the last five years that signing a gazillion guys is warranted. And most these guys aren't prospects, they are never will bes or has beens.

 

[orangecuse]

Are you obsessed with catch frases. You are glomming on to one like it means anything. UFC 1 was filled with low level talent for the good of the future of the sport... So many fans are obsessed with the right now. UFC didn't put TUF China or UFC Macau or Singapore on tv let alone big PPV. UFC made a card meant to appeal to the local audience to break into a market that holds huge potential for growth.

These events have almost 0 effect on other events and it hasn't watered down any events surrounding them. These few events that UFC doesn't even sgow on TV in the US are watered down and that's a problem why?

These events weren't even headlined by popular fighters for fuck sakes.

Right just like if 30 new NBA teams were added. There would be nights where garbage unknown teams and players would be featured at NBA prices with the NBA logo.That coveted high level athletics & competition that the NBA logo stands for stamped on those courts would thus have less meaning and it would be diminished. So do you agree with the article? Because I do and that's what I was getting at.

It's just about getting money now, the UFC fans money. We were told and led to believe as UFC fans a UFC card and a UFC fighter meant something different than what they are selling us at times now. Whether they know or care; Singapore, China, etc are getting a watered down product with the UFC logo on it.

 

[pointfighter]

Holy hell! More shows = more exposure; fighters fighting more often = more exposure. More exposure today = future star tomorrow....

Not everyone can pull a Connor McGregor. Most stars takes years to build.

more shows = watered down product and no one gives a shit about anyone

fighters fighting often = except thats not happening, never before have champs been so lackadaisical in defending their belts and more cards just means more fighters not the same fighters fighting more often

more exposure today = getting on an undercard in a stylistic nightmare fight tomorrow (aka trying to build up Robert Whittaker in Aus/NZ then turning around and serving him up on a silver platter for Wonderboy to KO)

 

[Bigj383]

You start with 50 fighters, out of a 1000, hypothetically. So only 50 best fighters can make it in to the UFC. At some point all the players/fighter get tv tim

Now time passes, you increase the number of fighters to 150 players, out of 5000. And all those 150 get tv exposure time.

In your scenario UFC actually goes from having the top 5% to the top 3% they have actually increased their overall average level of talent.

You have diluted the product because of the Org no longer is centered around the top 50 players/fighters. It doesn't matter how much better fighters have become because evolution happens across the board. Mediocre fighters today are better than mediocre fighters of yesteryear, but they are still mediocre compared to their peers. And the very best fighters today are still that much better than good fighters as the very best were in their day against their good fighters. There is never going to be more 50 best than the 50 best no matter how many fighters or how good they've become as a group.

Add to that the fact that although they have put on more cards to accommodate the increased roster, in general a fans time and disposable income hasn't changed. So if I bought x amount of dollars worth of PPVs that could fit into x amount of time available, now my value per dollar and time is lowered to accommodate the increase in roster.

Your problem is not the talent level of fighters but the fact that you can't follow them all. The overall skill level is higher. You call UFC hiring a guy with the potential to be world champion watering down the product because you can't remember his name.

The gap between #1 fighter and #50 fighter today is smaller than the gap between the #1 fighter and the #10 fighter 6 or 7 years ago. Today the talent is so good the #25 fighter could hold his on against many in the top 5 in some divisions. Just like the persieved #10 fighter can steamroll someone thought to be one of the P4P best.

 

[Degen Gambler]

You call UFC hiring a guy with the potential to be world champion watering down the product because you can't remember his name.

Should a football fan enjoy watching every single NCAA football game because there are players that have potential to be NFL MVPs someday?