DC might have checkmated JBJ...

[LouisBolanos]

That one of yours? That's fucking inspired.

No, it's @bigwaverider

 

[Schoolboy Q]

JBJ>Conor, I’m sure some Conor fans came here to try and act like JBJ isn’t a better champion than he ever was.

 

[xX420TokeeyXx420Swag]

cocaine and dick pills>Popeyes and cake.

 

[Ozze]

Without the PED debate (which there’s nothing to debate, he’s a cheat), there is no Jon Jones

He is a cheat. But TS said to put it aside.

 

[The XL]

who really cares about USADA? im watching fights to be entertained i dont want to watch people point fight and spar for 5 rounds

DC was outclassed in both fights plain and simple

Outclassed in the first fight, DC was doing very well in the second fight until he got caught. Not discounting the win on that premise, but he certainly wasn't being outclassed up to that point. And Jon was using copious amounts of drugs on top of being nearly a decade younger, so.....

 

[dns2344]

He is a cheat. But TS said to put it aside.

I know. I guess I’m having trouble pretending lol

 

[Ling Ling]

Trying to analyze the facts without the PEDs element, otherwise it´s gonna be just another USADA boring thread...

Trying to analyze " the facts " while removing an important fact from the discussion. Got it.

 

[Lo Pan]

DC's 0-2 vs bones he knows this and it burns his ass soo much he cried like a baby

Correct

 

[Ling Ling]

The thing is, you can't really put the PED issue aside, no matter how good one thinks Jones is. The fact of the matter is he failed 2/3 fights under enhanced testing, and the one fight where he didn't pop was widely considered his worst performance in the Octagon, against not exactly the best opponent he ever fought (OSP).

Would have Jones been able to accomplish what he accomplished without PEDs? There is no question these help recovery, reaction time, energy levels, the capacity to train, and thus make a huge difference in performance, even if obviously not directly in skill (which is why the whole "PEDs don't teach you how to kick!" point is moot).

Would have Jones beaten Gustaffson clean? Or, Cormier the first time around? We just don't know, but we do know athletes gain significant performance gains from PEDs. Had he lost those fights, this wouldn't even be a discussion. There's no saying if he is as good as his past performances seemed to indicate, because he often, if not always, cheated.

I don't really see how anyone go beyond this argument other than saying "well, everyone he beat was cheating anyway!". That requires a lot of speculation beyond the cases we know (Vitor, Chael...), so it's not very good an argument.

This is 100% true but don't expect that people will accept incontrovertible facts regarding PED use. They never can explain why an athlete would use them if it doesn't give them an edge. They never seem to accept how being able to train longer, and more often, can improve their skillset.
Anyway great post, 100 % truth.

 

[gono btw]

That's true, but that works against DC as well because if Jones never fights again, dc won't face the opportunity to alter that image of him losing to him

yeah, but as stated in the OP, this thread´s not about their legacy @ LHW, but about their legacy P4P...

 

[CRuck1980]

yeah, but as stated in the OP, this thread´s not about their legacy @ LHW, but about their legacy P4P...

P4P is imaginary, but even then, my point is the biggest moments in dc's career revolve around jon Jones and no matter what he does, in the back of everyone's mind, he didn't beat jj