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No, it's @bigwaveriderThat one of yours? That's fucking inspired.
No, it's @bigwaveriderThat one of yours? That's fucking inspired.
Without the PED debate (which there’s nothing to debate, he’s a cheat), there is no Jon Jones
who really cares about USADA? im watching fights to be entertained i dont want to watch people point fight and spar for 5 rounds
DC was outclassed in both fights plain and simple
I know. I guess I’m having trouble pretending lolHe is a cheat. But TS said to put it aside.
Trying to analyze " the facts " while removing an important fact from the discussion. Got it.Trying to analyze the facts without the PEDs element, otherwise it´s gonna be just another USADA boring thread...
DC's 0-2 vs bones he knows this and it burns his ass soo much he cried like a baby
This is 100% true but don't expect that people will accept incontrovertible facts regarding PED use. They never can explain why an athlete would use them if it doesn't give them an edge. They never seem to accept how being able to train longer, and more often, can improve their skillset.The thing is, you can't really put the PED issue aside, no matter how good one thinks Jones is. The fact of the matter is he failed 2/3 fights under enhanced testing, and the one fight where he didn't pop was widely considered his worst performance in the Octagon, against not exactly the best opponent he ever fought (OSP).
Would have Jones been able to accomplish what he accomplished without PEDs? There is no question these help recovery, reaction time, energy levels, the capacity to train, and thus make a huge difference in performance, even if obviously not directly in skill (which is why the whole "PEDs don't teach you how to kick!" point is moot).
Would have Jones beaten Gustaffson clean? Or, Cormier the first time around? We just don't know, but we do know athletes gain significant performance gains from PEDs. Had he lost those fights, this wouldn't even be a discussion. There's no saying if he is as good as his past performances seemed to indicate, because he often, if not always, cheated.
I don't really see how anyone go beyond this argument other than saying "well, everyone he beat was cheating anyway!". That requires a lot of speculation beyond the cases we know (Vitor, Chael...), so it's not very good an argument.
yeah, but as stated in the OP, this thread´s not about their legacy @ LHW, but about their legacy P4P...That's true, but that works against DC as well because if Jones never fights again, dc won't face the opportunity to alter that image of him losing to him
yeah, but as stated in the OP, this thread´s not about their legacy @ LHW, but about their legacy P4P...