Crime Dallas Officer Kills Man in Apartment "She Thought Was Hers"

[HunterSdVa29]

can cops commit felony murder?

even if they don't charge murder, she assaulated someone w/ a deadly weapon w/ no PC....


Said person died in relation to the committing of that felony, i.e. Felony Murder, right?

 

[aitkenmike]

Published on Sep 25, 2019

Texas Ranger David Armstrong said he doesn’t believe Guyger committed any crime. But jurors won’t get to hear that.

Good to know that the position of the Texas Rangers is that you can walk into someone else's apartment, blast away at the home owner, kill them, and not even meet, according to Mr Armstrong, the probable cause threshold of a crime (any crime!).

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

I get the union president helping her right away and trying to squash this, I do. That’s kinda his job.

But where were the supervisors and IA? Out here we have a different bargaining unit and they shouldn’t be dealing with the same rep or trying to cover for her.

Is this normal on the mainland? Seems pretty fucked up, but I generally think you guys are majorly fucked up all around.

can cops commit felony murder?

even if they don't charge murder, she assaulated someone w/ a deadly weapon w/ no PC....


Said person died in relation to the committing of that felony, i.e. Felony Murder, right?

She wasn’t on duty at the time, but cops can be charged with anything regardless. I don’t think this is felony murder but we don’t have that statute out here anymore so I might be wrong.

 

[all caps]

Published on Sep 25, 2019

Takeaways from WFAA's newsroom in Dallas on Day 3 of the Amber Guyger trial.

 

[Phisher]

can cops commit felony murder?

even if they don't charge murder, she assaulated someone w/ a deadly weapon w/ no PC....


Said person died in relation to the committing of that felony, i.e. Felony Murder, right?

Absolutely. It's a much higher standard when they've acted within the course of their duties, but that's not relevant here.

She was off duty and doesn't have a valid self-defense argument.

As an aside, murder is always a felony. The "felony murder rule" is a separate doctrine that has to do with the law of parties.

 

[Gutter Chris]

She purposely shot the man and he died. What's not murder about it?

She happens to be a member of not 1 but 2 of the most privileged classes of people in america .... it tends to complicate things.

Its very different from what would happen if you or I walked in the wrong door and killed some poor fool

 

[HereticBD]

I'm glad they're pursuing murder and I don't see how they don't get it.

For once we agree. This was murder. This wasn't no trauma induced shooting, or panic move. This was MURDER. I will always look at both sides of the equation, and there is just no rational excuse on her part.

She'd have a better chance at pleading insanity. The "Twinkie defense" is a better defense than her lame "I thought it was my apartment" one.

If she gets off, riot away.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Absolutely. It's a much higher standard when they've acted within the course of their duties, but that's not relevant here.

She was off duty and doesn't have a valid self-defense argument.

As an aside, murder is always a felony. The "felony murder rule" is a separate doctrine that has to do with the law of parties.

I know what the felony murder rule is, my pt was even if malicious intent somehow cant be proven then surely the massive negligence that resulted in someone dying is in itself a felony. Which ipso facto....felony murder


Tbh felony murder rules dont seem to differ that much from mansluaghter, I believe it's the underlying intent of the original act

 

[Phisher]

I know what the felony murder rule is, my pt was even if malicious intent somehow cant be proven then surely the massive negligence that resulted in someone dying is in itself a felony. Which ipso facto....felony murder


Tbh felony murder rules dont seem to differ that much from mansluaghter, I believe it's the underlying intent of the original act

The standard isn't "malicious intent." It's the intent to kill that distinguishes murder from manslaughter.

Manslaughter in common law jurisdictions is death resulting from an action driven by an intent to harm, reckless behavior that leads to a person's death or negligence resulting in death that rises to the level of criminality.

Texas separates manslaughter (harm, recklessness) and criminally negligent homicide into two separate offenses.

 

[My Spot]

I know this question has been asked a ton of times but - if she is being charged and tried on murder can they still convict her of manslaughter?

Yes.

 

[Andy Capp]

I'm glad they're pursuing murder and I don't see how they don't get it. You can't just kill any unfamiliar person you see, even in your own home. Unless there's some shred of evidence that he posed a threat to her, then we're simply left with the facts that not a single eyewitness heard her shout anything before the shots, the body being found far from the door, and the angle of the bullet entry implying that he was at least bent over and, at worst, on his knees.

That's second degree murder.

Agreed.

Wasn't planned but was unprovoked and reckless disregard of human life.

This case is literally the textbook definition of 2nd degree murder

IIRC there's no 1st or 2nd degree in Texas. So, that's another text book they didn't read LOL.

But seriously, I don't recall exactly what they do instead, or whether she can be convicted on a lesser charge, but they don't do the degree thing.

 

[Leagon]

Define "murder."

Unsurprisingly, he abandoned the thread. @PHATV has no substance to what he says.

 

[Andy Capp]

@Leagon @560ti
I was correct, at least according to https://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-first-degree-murder-laws.html

Here's some detail:

Overview of Texas First Degree Murder Laws

Texas does not officially use the term "first degree murder" which can sometimes be a little bit confusing. Instead, the equivalent in Texas is known as "capital murder," which is murder for which a perpetrator can get a sentence of capital punishment. To convict a defendant of capital murder, prosecutors must be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that:

• The defendant intentionally and knowingly caused the death of another person;
• The defendant intended to cause serious bodily injury and committed an act that was clearly dangerous to human life and this act caused the death of an individual; or
• The defendant committed or attempted to commit a felony (other than manslaughter) and in performing that felony, committed an act that was clearly dangerous to human life and this act caused the death of an individual.

Texas First Degree Murder Laws: Overview

Below you will find key information on Texas first degree murder laws, penalties, and possible defenses. Remember, if you have been accused of taking another person’s life, it is strongly advised you have the best possible counsel to represent you in court.

Statutes

• Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 19

Additional Criteria for Capital Murder in Texas

In addition to the above criteria, in order for the charge to be capital murder, as opposed to just "murder' in Texas, one of the following must apply:

• The victim is a peace officer or fireman who was acting under lawful duty at the time of the crime;
• The defendant intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat;
• The defendant is paid to commit murder or pays someone else to commit murder;
• The defendant commits the crime while trying to escape from a penal institution;
• The defendant murders another person while in jail
• The defendant murders more than one person
• The defendant murders a child younger than six years of age
• The defendant murders someone in retaliation for or on account of the service of a member of the judiciary

Possible Defenses

• Lack of intent
• Lack of knowledge
• Insanity
• Intoxication
• Self-defense

NOTE: If none of the criteria are met for capital murder, the defendant may still be found guilty of a lesser murder charge.

See First Degree Murder Defenses to learn more.

Penalties

In Texas, first degree murder (or capital murder), carries a very serious and very heavy penalty. Since Texas is a state that allows capital punishment, it is possible to receive a death penalty sentence. Generally speaking, the sentence for a capital felony in Texas is either death or life in prison without the possibility of parole.

If the defendant is declared to be incapacitated (e.g. with a mental disability or is declared insane), then he/she will be spared from the death penalty. The minimum age in Texas to receive the death penalty is 17 years of age.

See First Degree Murder Penalties and Sentencing for more details.

Note: State laws are always subject to change through the passage of new legislation, rulings in the higher courts (including federal decisions), ballot initiatives, and other means. While we strive to provide the most current information available, please consult an attorney or conduct your own legal research to verify the state law(s) you are researching.


So, according to that, concerns about her getting off completely if she is not convicted of capital murder are misplaced.

 

[Andy Capp]

@Leagon @560ti
I was correct, at least according to https://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-first-degree-murder-laws.html

Here's some detail:

Overview of Texas First Degree Murder Laws

Texas does not officially use the term "first degree murder" which can sometimes be a little bit confusing. Instead, the equivalent in Texas is known as "capital murder," which is murder for which a perpetrator can get a sentence of capital punishment. To convict a defendant of capital murder, prosecutors must be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that:

• The defendant intentionally and knowingly caused the death of another person;
• The defendant intended to cause serious bodily injury and committed an act that was clearly dangerous to human life and this act caused the death of an individual; or
• The defendant committed or attempted to commit a felony (other than manslaughter) and in performing that felony, committed an act that was clearly dangerous to human life and this act caused the death of an individual.

Texas First Degree Murder Laws: Overview

Below you will find key information on Texas first degree murder laws, penalties, and possible defenses. Remember, if you have been accused of taking another person’s life, it is strongly advised you have the best possible counsel to represent you in court.

Statutes

• Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 19

Additional Criteria for Capital Murder in Texas

In addition to the above criteria, in order for the charge to be capital murder, as opposed to just "murder' in Texas, one of the following must apply:

• The victim is a peace officer or fireman who was acting under lawful duty at the time of the crime;
• The defendant intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat;
• The defendant is paid to commit murder or pays someone else to commit murder;
• The defendant commits the crime while trying to escape from a penal institution;
• The defendant murders another person while in jail
• The defendant murders more than one person
• The defendant murders a child younger than six years of age
• The defendant murders someone in retaliation for or on account of the service of a member of the judiciary

Possible Defenses

• Lack of intent
• Lack of knowledge
• Insanity
• Intoxication
• Self-defense

NOTE: If none of the criteria are met for capital murder, the defendant may still be found guilty of a lesser murder charge.

See First Degree Murder Defenses to learn more.

Penalties

In Texas, first degree murder (or capital murder), carries a very serious and very heavy penalty. Since Texas is a state that allows capital punishment, it is possible to receive a death penalty sentence. Generally speaking, the sentence for a capital felony in Texas is either death or life in prison without the possibility of parole.

If the defendant is declared to be incapacitated (e.g. with a mental disability or is declared insane), then he/she will be spared from the death penalty. The minimum age in Texas to receive the death penalty is 17 years of age.

See First Degree Murder Penalties and Sentencing for more details.

Note: State laws are always subject to change through the passage of new legislation, rulings in the higher courts (including federal decisions), ballot initiatives, and other means. While we strive to provide the most current information available, please consult an attorney or conduct your own legal research to verify the state law(s) you are researching.


So, according to that, concerns about her getting off completely if she is not convicted of capital murder are misplaced.

More relevant to this case, where capital murder almost certainly off the table,

The crime of second degree murder, simply called "murder" in Texas, is a serious crime with harsh penalties. Second degree murder is a crime involving a death that resulted from the accused's wrongful acts. These include deaths that occur during the commission of a crime, or on account of the accused's recklessness. The following chart includes information about the Texas crime of second degree murder, including potential defenses and penalties.

Statute Texas Murder Statute (Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 19)
Elements of Second Degree Murder
Texas does not officially use the term "second degree murder" which can sometimes be a little bit confusing. Instead, the equivalent in Texas is known as just "murder," which is a first degree felony. To convict a defendant of murder, prosecutors must be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that:

• The defendant intentionally and knowingly caused the death of another person;
• The defendant intended to cause serious bodily injury and committed an act that was clearly dangerous to human life and this act caused the death of an individual; or
• The defendant committed or attempted to commit a felony (other than manslaughter) and in performing that felony, committed an act that was clearly dangerous to human life and this act caused the death of an individual.

Defenses Against Second Degree Murder Charges

• Lack of intent
• Lack of knowledge
• Insanity
• Intoxication
• Self-defense
• "Heat of passion" defense (i.e. The defendant was provoked to commit the crime by fear, rage, terror or some other extreme emotion.)

NOTE: If none of the criteria are met, the defendant may still be found guilty of a lesser homicide charge.

See Second Degree Murder Defenses for more information.

Penalties and Sentences
Murder in Texas is a first degree felony. This charge will typically carry a sentence of between five and 99 years in a state prison and/or a fine of no more than $10,000. At the sentencing stage of the defendant's trial, the defendant can raise the issue of having committed the crime in the "heat of passion" arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant is found to have been in the heat of passion at the time of the homicide, then the charge will be reduced to second degree felony. A second degree felony carries a sentence of between two and twenty years in a state prison and a fine of no more than $10,000.


I don't recall who was wanting to know the possible sentence, but there's the penalty according to statute.

 

[Danger Dave]

yea if a cop busted down my door i can probably kill like 2 at best before i go down. then they see my license and say "oh wrong house"

 

[all caps]

Started streaming 11 minutes ago

It’s day 4 of the Amber Guyger murder trial. Crime scene analysis will continue and there's a chance that the prosecution could rest as early as this afternoon.

Former Dallas police officer Amber Guyger is on trial for murder after she fatally shot Botham Shem Jean on September 6, 2018.

Guyger was off duty but still in uniform when she went into Jean's apartment at South Side Flats. She told investigators she believed she was walking into her own apartment and shot Jean believing he was an intruder.

MORE: https://www.wfaa.com/bothamjean

 

[The Merchant]

Coroner just confirmed that the bullet entered him at a downward angle, entering around the heart and ending around the lower left rib area. Pretty much confirmed that Jean must have been bent at the waist.

Dude was likely sitting, or just standing up. Possible that he was charging her at 45 degrees like some shoot wrestler in an anime, though. Can't rule that out.

probably doing that Nauro running thing the kids go one about, the closing speed is insane, she had no choice but you end his life.

 

[all caps]

I think they just showed the first officer in the rooms body cam. Wonder if they will show all the body cams.

 

[DespicablePeep]

Did she take a drug test? This shit reeks drug use

 

[method115]

Did she take a drug test? This shit reeks drug use

Could be wrong but I remember hearing she did but it was like the next day.