Social Curt Schilling and the baseball HOF

[MilesAbove]

gawd damn, you cuckservatives are so soft.

He spoke out against the league during the steroid era. He was always just generally a pos. But most important is he was being actively a hateful pos.

Baseball doesn't care if you're an asshole. Madison Bumgarner is a first-ballot and he's probably more conservative than Schilling. He just isn't an asshole about it.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Neither is brackis' post.

Brackis' post is relevant to Brackis' point. Your response wasn't.

 

[bref]

I'm just happy Larry Walker (barely) made it in.

 

[MilesAbove]

Brackis' post is relevant to Brackis' point. Your response wasn't.

Stop being so darn complicated, JvS!!!!

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Colin Kaepernick protests cops killing people: "Well this is what you get when you bring politics into sports. stop being a distraction."

Curt Schilling embezzles neatly 100 mil from state of RI and posts memes comparing muslims to Nazis, then does't instantly get meaningless award... "I DEMAND JUSTICE FOR CURT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Embezzlement is supposed to get you money. Schilling lost 50mil on that company - his netwoth is estimated at only 1m these days

 

[drstrangelov]

I think he should get in, he’s got solid career numbers and the rings push him over the edge. He’s not a slam dunk candidate though, no question he never belonged in the discussion for first ballot entry. It’s been long enough though, asshole or not he should get in, and he probably will.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I think he should get in, he’s got solid career numbers and the rings push him over the edge. He’s not a slam dunk candidate though, no question he never belonged in the discussion for first ballot entry. It’s been long enough though, asshole or not he should get in, and he probably will.

I don't really buy the first-ballot distinction. Plus, Schilling's career fWAR is 79.8 (better than Jeter, who was almost unanimous). I think he's a slam-dunk candidate.

 

[drstrangelov]

I don't really buy the first-ballot distinction. Plus, Schilling's career fWAR is 79.8 (better than Jeter, who was almost unanimous). I think he's a slam-dunk candidate.

The first ballot distinction is hugely subjective, but that candidate profile basically includes a major traditional stat milestone (3000 hits, 300 wins, 500 Home Runs), no scandals, limited bad press and major national profile during playing career. That’s where begrudging media support for his candidacy is gonna show up. Are the voters openly considering fWAR when assessing players for the Hall of Fame yet? I assumed that it was stodgy old timers making the selections still.

I’m a lifelong Red Sox fan and think he deserves to get in, but most fans of any team are gonna look at him as a bottom tier HoFer for how pedestrian his success always seemed.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Are the voters openly considering fWAR when assessing players for the Hall of Fame yet? I assumed that it was stodgy old timers making the selections still.

You have to have been a member of the BBWAA for at least 10 years continuously and currently active. So lots of stodgy old-timers but also lots of more-knowledgeable younger voters. Look at Blyleven and Morris (Blyleven got in because of people pointing out how good he looks in advanced stats, while Morris got in despite advanced stats showing him being unworthy--there's a kind of battle going on; Rice and Raines is another pair that old-school and new-school types argued about and who both made it). Advanced stats show that Schilling was significantly better than Morris or Rice.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

Curt Schilling doesn't piss people off because he votes Republican, he's pissed people off because he's put out a lot of xenophobic, homophobic, and transphobic nonsense online.


So you have all these whiney right wingers who talk about the importance of "free speech", as if it means you can discriminate against whoever you want, put out as much damaging hateful rhetoric as you want, and nobody is allowed to take issue with it, otherwise they're infringing on your "free speech"... lol smh.

Also shows how hypocritical conservatives are, who are supposed to be for "small government" and draining the swamp... do you know how much Schilling cost tax payers with his video game bust?

Correct me if I'm wrong. I think he reposted a couple transgender memes to Facebook. Are there some comments that I'm not aware of?
Can you quote some of these trans phobic homophobic comments he's made?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

I think he should get in, he’s got solid career numbers and the rings push him over the edge. He’s not a slam dunk candidate though, no question he never belonged in the discussion for first ballot entry. It’s been long enough though, asshole or not he should get in, and he probably will.

Not a slam dunk? He has the 2nd best K to BB ratio since 1900 (for pitchers who threw more than 1000 innings).

 

[rob mafia]

It's pretty obvious the reason he wasn't voted in was because of his political views.
"The 53-year-old has spent the last few years rapidly disqualifying himself from the conversation by spreading hateful speech and dangerous rhetoric
...
A vote for Schilling confirms that baseball will not only accept, but reward horrible, hateful people."

did he even say anything hateful? all i remember was him reposting a cartoon about not wanting grown men in bathrooms with girls, regarding the silly trans bathroom legislation.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I think he reposted a couple transgender memes to Facebook. Are there some comments that I'm not aware of?
Can you quote some of these trans phobic homophobic comments he's made?

that's all i really recall, too. at least, that's what the big blow-up was all about and why he was fired by espn (disney).

 

[kpt018]

I don't really buy the first-ballot distinction. Plus, Schilling's career fWAR is 79.8 (better than Jeter, who was almost unanimous). I think he's a slam-dunk candidate.

I’m still struggling with mapping WAR, fwar, etc onto what I see and believe in terms of player valuation. I probably just need to sit and learn the actual calculation. But I just saw a list that has Schilling right below Gibson, which makes him an obvious shoe in, but below Mussina who was borderline!

And I loved Mussina and thought he was great but understood why he was a no for some.

I also don’t think these stats are good at all for comparing players who played in different eras. The Babe is on the top of war rankings (varies depending on different calculations but always top 3, I think) and I’m convinced in today’s game he’s similar to David Ortiz. But DO played against much better competition so Babe comes up much higher.

Jeter being a spot higher than Trout doesn’t sit well either.

(I’m still working this shit out and talking a bit out of my ass)

 

[Deleted member 159002]

And I loved Mussina and thought he was great but understood why he was a no for some.

AFAIC postseason performance counts a lot (or at least should -- it would for me if I voted). I'd rather have Andy Pettitte in my rotation than Mussina.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

oh wow is that a boo-boo on his footsie?

A fake boo boo.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I’m still struggling with mapping WAR, fwar, etc into what I see and believe in terms of player valuation. I probably just need to sit and learn the actual calculation. But I just saw a list that has Schilling right below Gibson, which makes him an obvious shoe in, but below Mussina who was borderline!

And I loved Mussina and thought he was great but understood why he was a no for some.

The way it works in principle for pitchers is that they calculate how many runs you'd expect the opposition to score with a replacement-level pitcher over the innings that the pitcher pitched, adjusting for parks, league offensive level, and defense, and then they compare that with the number actually scored, and credit the pitcher with the difference. Complicated somewhat in practice, but the idea is pretty solid.

I kind of oversimplified by just listing his career WAR, too, though Schilling's is so high that it would be basically impossible for him not to be HOF-worthy. A better measure is something like JAWS, which makes adjustments for the distribution of career WAR (so someone who had a lot of good years and no really great years does a bit worse, though Mussina and Schilling both score as easily HOF-worthy still). By JAWS, only two pitchers with a better score than either of them is not in the HOF (Jim McCormick, whose career ended in 1887, and Roger Clemens).

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

I think it's more about the fact that he was a massive asshole to teammates and the press than his political views, though the political views arise out of his personality defects.

But, yeah, he'd have my vote for the HOF anyway.

Baseball writers have always held weird grudges.

I think Dick Allen and Albert Belle should also be in but they didn't play nice with the media and Belle was a legit asshole.

Also as much as I think Schilling should be in the Hall it's not like his stats show that he's a shoe in

Over the past 4 years the percentage of writers voting for him has gone up so I think he'll likely get in

 

[Jack V Savage]

Baseball writers have always held weird grudges.

I think Dick Allen and Albert Belle should also be in but they didn't play nice with the media and Belle was a legit asshole.

Also as much as I think Schilling should be in the Hall it's not like his stats show that he's a shoe in

Over the past 4 years the percentage of writers voting for him has gone up so I think he'll likely get in

Disagree about Belle (way too few good years, IMO--really just a great player from 1993-1996 and in 1998) and I'm on the fence on Allen, but you're right generally.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

I've always read he was a great teammate durring his playing days - he used to call the sportstalk shows regularly to defend teammates.

And writers didn't seem to have issues with him until he called the BBWA voters scum after not voting him in on his 3rd ballot.

Mitch Williams would like a word

 

[Jack V Savage]

Mitch Williams would like a word

Joe Posnanski:

In 2002 — the year after Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling were co-MVPs of the World Series and named co-Sportspeople of the Year by Sports Illustrated — someone in the Diamondbacks organization explained to me the basic difference between the two players.

The person said that with Johnson, teammates hated him on the day he pitched, loved him the other four days.

And with Schilling, teammates loved him on the day he pitched, hated him the other four days.