Social Curt Schilling and the baseball HOF

[Jack V Savage]

I also don’t think these stats are good at all for comparing players who played in different eras. The Babe is on the top of war rankings (varies depending on different calculations but always top 3, I think) and I’m convinced in today’s game he’s similar to David Ortiz. But DO played against much better competition so Babe comes up much higher.

Jeter being a spot higher than Trout doesn’t sit well either.

(I’m still working this shit out and talking a bit out of my ass)

Didn't see this part. Remember that Trout has played a LOT less than Jeter. By fWAR, Jeter's best single-season total was 7.4. Trout's totals in all of his seasons have been: 10.1, 10.2, 8.3, 9.3, 9.7, 6.8 (only 114 games), 9.8, and 8.6. Going by WAR, Trout has been much, much better than Jeter, but he's only played 1,199 games, while Jeter played 2,747 games. Nate Silver joked that Trout should be called "Ares" (god of WAR).

Also, there's no era adjustment. It's how many wins you added in the time you played. You can mentally adjust for improved caliber of play over the years, but I think the adjustment would be smaller than people appreciate.

 

[kpt018]

Disagree about Belle (way too few good years, IMO--really just a great player from 1993-1996 and in 1998) and I'm on the fence on Allen, but you're right generally.

I agree with this but my lord Belle was a terror during his great years. I think this also raises an interesting question as to how long you have to be great to be HOF worthy (how many more years would Belle have needed to produce to get in?).

I think fans and probably baseball writers tend to favor upside as well (I do as well, but maybe I’m wrong). Harold Baines is in the HOF (arguable as to whether he should be) but if he and Belle were both in next years draft and you knew how their careers would go I’m pretty confident GMs would take Belle (the fact that he’s a shithead aside).

 

[Jack V Savage]

I agree with this but my lord Belle was a terror during his great years. I think this also raises an interesting question as to how long you have to be great to be HOF worthy (how many more years would Belle have needed to produce to get in?).

I think fans and probably baseball writers tend to favor upside as well (I do as well, but maybe I’m wrong). Harold Baines is in the HOF (arguable as to whether he should be) but if he and Belle were both in next years draft and you knew how their careers would go I’m pretty confident GMs would take Belle (the fact that he’s a shithead aside).

Belle was a LF who was really bad defensively, though. Very high bar for him offensively, and by WAR, he wasn't *that* great at his best because of that (basically, three sort of MVP-caliber seasons, adjusting for the short 1994 season). Baines was a ridiculously bad selection.

 

[Shoemaker]

I was just thinking if the International Boxing Hall of Fame took such moral stances, it would be like 3 guys.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

I was just thinking if the International Boxing Hall of Fame took such moral stances, it would be like 3 guys.

Ho, Ly, and Field

 

[Shoemaker]

Ho, Ly, and Field

They'd have to grease up the door hinges to let in Andre Ward after a couple more years, but then it would be back to a "turn up the A/C and shut off the lights" situation.

 

[zebby23]

If an athlete refuses to adhere to pre-approved political viewpoints, they should be shunned by the press and banned from any sports honors.

Being low iq and wrong has consequences

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Being low iq and wrong has consequences

So you essentially agree that having a non- approved political stance should be punished even in areas where it is irrelevant.

It's an ugly outlook on life.

 

[jeffbeesdat]

There were lots of stories about his behavior during his career.

I am a pretty big baseball fan and I don’t recall this. Everyone has a bad day but “lots of stories” seems to be a bit of a stretch. Can you name a few?

Also, in terms of Cobb, his life was influenced a great deal at an early age by the death of his father. Mr. Cobb believed that his wife was having an affair so he acted like he was going away on a business trip but instead went back home and climbed on the roof to peak into the upstairs bedroom window. His wife, believing a prowler was trying to get in the house, shot him dead.

 

[zebby23]

So you essentially agree that having a non- approved political stance should be punished even in areas where it is irrelevant.

It's an ugly outlook on life.

At this point? Sure. Republicans walk around in a delusional, factless world. That is a worse outlook on life.

 

[Morning Star]

Personal views shouldn't keep someone out of the Hall of Fame. I'm not aware of any crimes that Mr. Schilling has committed. I'm not aware of him ever being accused of or caught using PEDs or cheating the game. 300 game winners are a thing of the past in baseball. Schilling has 3 rings, was probably the best postseason pitcher of the last couple decades and has 200+ wins. He belongs in the Hall no question.

People that are voting against guys like Schilling and T.O. have no business having a HOF vote. The only valid question when voting should be does the person have a HOF resume, period.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Mitch Williams would like a word

Mitch should have closed a few games. Really though, didn't he just sit in the dugout with a towel over his head? I honestly don't remember him making negative remarks about him.

 

[My Spot]

Personal views shouldn't keep someone out of the Hall of Fame. I'm not aware of any crimes that Mr. Schilling has committed. I'm not aware of any of him ever being accused of or caught using PEDs or cheating the game. 300 game winners are a thing of the past in baseball. Schilling has 3 rings, was probably the best postseason pitcher of the last couple decades and has 200+ wins. He belongs in the Hall no question.

People that are voting against guys like Schilling and T.O. have no business having a HOF vote. The only valid question when voting should be does the person have a HOF resume, period.

And these same people will vote proven PED cheats like David Ortiz and A Rod into the HOF.

 

[Octavian]

Curt Schilling without a doubt should be in the baseball HOF.

https://sports.yahoo.com/curt-schil...e-in-the-baseball-hall-of-fame-021838902.html


It's pretty obvious the reason he wasn't voted in was because of his political views.



Do you think athletes should have to 'toe the line' to be recognized for their achievements?

honestly - I agree but if you look at his numbers, he’s really borderline ... just too many shitty years early in his career

the real issue is that the BBWAA is what puts guys in - it’s a farce

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

Mitch should have closed a few games. Really though, didn't he just sit in the dugout with a towel over his head? I honestly don't remember him making negative remarks about him.

I was like at 8 the time but the reports I've seen when it's brought up around here are that he always put a towel over his head when Mitch pitched.

Mitch thought he was mocking him or not showing faith in him and seems the rest of the team seems to support Mitch.

I was a Schilling fan so I thought it was Curt being disappointed in himself for not completing the game.

But either way it's pretty clear Schilling rubbed some teammates the wrong way.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

I agree with this but my lord Belle was a terror during his great years. I think this also raises an interesting question as to how long you have to be great to be HOF worthy (how many more years would Belle have needed to produce to get in?).

I think fans and probably baseball writers tend to favor upside as well (I do as well, but maybe I’m wrong). Harold Baines is in the HOF (arguable as to whether he should be) but if he and Belle were both in next years draft and you knew how their careers would go I’m pretty confident GMs would take Belle (the fact that he’s a shithead aside).

Pretty sure that Belle would never make it through MiLB drug testing to make an impact in the pros.

 

[HankScorpio]

I think a lot of you right-wingers are using his political views as an excuse. Just as the left uses Colin Kap political views as the reason he isn't in the NFL.

I also think many of you are Sox fans, which is the worst.

Quite frankly, he isn't a first ballot HoF'er. He was very good and will get in within the next ten years. But first ballot should be reserved for elite of the elite. Not just the elite.

216-146 ERA 3.46. 0 Cy awards. You could use the steroid era for the inflated ERA but MEH.

 

[hillelslovak87]

The guy balled out with his leg jacked up in the highest stakes.

 

[My Spot]

I think a lot of you right-wingers are using his political views as an excuse. Just as the left uses Colin Kap political views as the reason he isn't in the NFL.

I also think many of you are Sox fans, which is the worst.

Quite frankly, he isn't a first ballot HoF'er. He was very good and will get in within the next ten years. But first ballot should be reserved for elite of the elite. Not just the elite.

216-146 ERA 3.46. 0 Cy awards. You could use the steroid era for the inflated ERA but MEH.

Is anyone on here saying he should’ve been first ballot?

 

[HankScorpio]

Is anyone on here saying he should’ve been first ballot?

Damn where does time go. I thought this was his first ballot vote. Yikes!

Edit: His stats still aren't the greatest.

2nd Edit. Fuck me he stopped playing in 07. Wow, wtf. I'm retarded.