CroCop all-time status

[haroldBalls]

Haha gonzaga

by prime I mean the OWGP crocop....he was a different guy in the UFC

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Well I'm sure his motivation fluctuated both in the UFC and Pride but I think his main problem when coming to the UFC was the cage and the fighters and then eventually age.

The only legit, well round HW CC had beaten in the previous 3 years before coming to the UFC was Barnett. Other than that he was facing smaller guys like Wanderlei, Yoshida, Minowa, Coleman, Randleman, Oyama, Kanehara. Aleks was big and he was skilled but he wasn't that well rounded and only in his 4th fight.

Guys like Gonzaga and Kongo weren't monsters but they were much tougher than those guys. None of CC's pride opponents(outside of Barnett) could bully CC the way Gonzaga and Kongo did and CC wasn't used to that. He wasn't used to the cage and elbows on the ground and strong opponents who would grab him and out muscle him.

CC had a great career but I think he did face a step up in competition when he entered the UFC and never responded.

I agree that Gonzaga and Kongo were a little better than some of his opponents towards the end of his Pride career. IMO his decline was masked by favorable match ups, his prime ended in 2004 or early 2005 but was masked by mostly favorable match ups. Then he went to the UFC and had to adjust to fighting in a cage which didn't help either and then by the time he came back to the UFC the second time his body was completely shot.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

by prime I mean the OWGP crocop....he was a different guy in the UFC

OWGP Cro Cop wasn't in his prime, he just fought guys that were good match ups and looked great because of it. IMO his prime ended in late 2004 or early 2005. His physical prime was like 2001-2003 but his MMA was still developing.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Sure he had the motivation to fight, the UFC were offering him a fat paycheck at the time to leave PRIDE (and a rematch with Fedor, given to whoever won the GP) and come join their org. He was making alot of money and that almost certainly influenced his decision to continue competing.

However, I don't think he took MMA as seriously as he did before and this was shown by his decision to not even train in a cage until he took a couple of losses. The guy just never showed the kind of commitment he had when he was obsessed with becoming a PRIDE champion.

Is it your belief that had he showed that kind of zeal that he wouldn't have suffered the losses he did in the UFC?

 

[MuyThaiTom]

Bwahahaha using adjectives such as "brutally" and listing every single defeat of CC as a retort to "Mir has some of the worst losses of any all-time great" is considered good by you?

Let's see if I can match this rhetoric finesse and logical prowess:

Mir was brutally KTFO'ed by Barnett. JDS. Carwin. Lesnar. Vera. Cruz. Freeman. One can only imagine how many more times he's going to get KTFO'ed if he'd fight for additional 5 years (to match CC's age today).

Which brings me to another """great""" argument:

"They are close in age, both started around the same time"

... CC is 5 years the elder. At Mir's age, he only had 4 losses, and was only stopped twice.

Mir, on the other hand, at his current age, was already stopped FOUR times that amount. FOUR.

Sigh, Sherdog. This place ought to have some form of very basic intelligence testing upon registration.

Ok, you don't buy the silly heads up and shared opponents BS. Those are so subjective.

Try this logic. What are there records against relevant HW fighters. By relevant I mean fighters that at least once in their career were ranked as a top 10 HW.

Cro Cop : 10-10
Mir : 8-6

Crop Cop: Fedor (0-1), Nog (0-1), Barnett (3-0), JDS (0-1) , Nelson (0-1), Kongo (0-1) Herring (1-0), Gonzaga (0-1), Fujita (2-0), Hunt (0-1), Coleman (1-0), Randleman (1-1), Schaub (0-1), Mir (0-1). Igor (1-0) , Aleks (1-0)

Mir: Brock (1-1), Nog (2-0), Barnett (0-1), JDS (0-1), Nelson (1-0), Kongo (1-0), Cormier (0-1), Carwin (0-1), Mirko (1-0), Sylvia (1-0), Vera (0-1), Tank (1-0)

 

[HHJ]

lol just because he fought in japan doesnt mean he was on drugs,you losers

 

[MikalP]

Ok, you don't buy the silly heads up and shared opponents BS. Those are so subjective.

Try this logic. What are there records against relevant HW fighters. By relevant I mean fighters that at least once in their career were ranked as a top 10 HW.

Cro Cop : 8-12
Mir : 8-6

Crop Cop: Fedor (0-2), Nog (0-2), Barnett (3-0), JDS (0-1) , Nelson (0-1), Kongo (0-1) Herring (1-0), Gonzaga (0-1), Fujita (2-0), Hunt (0-1), Coleman (1-0), Randleman (1-1), Schaub (0-1), Mir (0-1).

Mir: Brock (1-1), Nog (2-0), Barnett (0-1), JDS (0-1), Nelson (1-0), Kongo (1-0), Cormier (0-1), Carwin (0-1), Mirko (1-0), Sylvia (1-0), Vera (0-1), Tank (1-0)

Cro Cop and Fedor only fought once. Cro Cop and Nog only fought once.

And if we're talking relevance, you cannot list when a fighter is clearly well past his prime and losing because those were not relevant fights for his opponent. Your Cro Cop list should stop after the Gonzaga fight and your Mir list should stop after, well, I'm not sure since he fought for the belt last year. That's something we'd have to figure out.

 

[Zodiac**]

by prime I mean the OWGP crocop....he was a different guy in the UFC

I love how no Pride fighters were on their prime when they started losing in the UFC and Strikeforce.

 

[HHJ]

so i guess anderson did shitty in pride cos he was on copious amounts of banned substances,and then only when he decided to leave that life of drug addiction behind did his full potential show...in the UFC.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Ok, you don't buy the silly heads up and shared opponents BS. Those are so subjective.

Try this logic. What are there records against relevant HW fighters. By relevant I mean fighters that at least once in their career were ranked as a top 10 HW.

Cro Cop : 8-12
Mir : 8-6

Crop Cop: Fedor (0-2), Nog (0-2), Barnett (3-0), JDS (0-1) , Nelson (0-1), Kongo (0-1) Herring (1-0), Gonzaga (0-1), Fujita (2-0), Hunt (0-1), Coleman (1-0), Randleman (1-1), Schaub (0-1), Mir (0-1).

Mir: Brock (1-1), Nog (2-0), Barnett (0-1), JDS (0-1), Nelson (1-0), Kongo (1-0), Cormier (0-1), Carwin (0-1), Mirko (1-0), Sylvia (1-0), Vera (0-1), Tank (1-0)

You got some stuff wrong and you forgot about Igor, Wanderlei, Aleks E.(if Nelson, Schaub and Kongo qualify so do Aleks and Wand)

So Cro Cops real numbers are 10-8 not very different from 8-6.

 

[eXtv]

Is it your belief that had he showed that kind of zeal that he wouldn't have suffered the losses he did in the UFC?

Were he as obsessed and motivated as he was back in the earlier stages of his MMA career when it came to taking titles, I think he would have done better than he did, yes.

 

[zamuz]

I was more referring to the point that Mir has beaten several of the guys who beat Mirko. Or the point about how Mir had that phase after his accident that probably shouldn't be held against him. Or the point about how Mir's unranked wins are still very impressive. Or the point about how you can't completely discount a fighters loss if he's over the hill because had he won the fight you would count it.

But maybe you missed all that and only saw what you wanted to see. Like I said CC is the greater HW but just how he did a great job arguing for Mir you have done an equally shitty job arguing for Cro Cop.

English is far from being a native tongue of mine, yet it's adequate enough for me to be able to interpret very basic sentences correctly, unlike you

But, again, I might be mistaken. Listing each and single defeat of CC as a retort to "Mir has some of the worst losses of any all-time great" is a good counter-argument, yet one might think it's a bit dubious of an argument considering that CC, at Mir's age was stopped twice, while Mir, as of date, was already stopped 4 times the amount (Multiplication. I feel the need to clarify in case you're going to "refer" to it as addition).

4 times. By the time he's actually (You agreed to the argument stating that CC and Mir are "close in age". Basic arithmetic much?) at CC's age today, going by his current rate of being stopped once a year, he'll be close to having 7(!) times the defeats via stoppage CC had at 34. Just to clarify how exactly atrocious the argument you claim is good would look if I were to turn the tables and use it against Mir.

Great job indeed... for a cretin.

 

[Ruv]

Legend, top 5 HW.

 

[MikalP]

I love how no Pride fighters were on their prime when they started losing in the UFC and Strikeforce.

Do you really not see how that makes sense?


The fighters from the same era declining at relatively the same time?





Really?

 

[MuyThaiTom]

You got some stuff wrong and you forgot about Igor, Wanderlei, Aleks E.(if Nelson, Schaub and Kongo qualify so do Aleks and Wand)

So Cro Cops real numbers are 10-8 not very different from 8-6.

I'd agree Aleks and Igor should. To my knowledge Wand was never ranked at HW. That makes it 10-10 though not 10-8.

 

[Sum]

If gsp loses to Hendricks he will be past his prime. Same as Hendricks if he loses against gsp

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I love how no Pride fighters were on their prime when they started losing in the UFC and Strikeforce.

Well most great Pride fighters were at the top of their games in like 2003-2005 of course they weren't in their prime years later, but Rampage, Henderson, and Lil Nog were still very close to their primes, Shogun should have been as well but he got bad injuries. Wanderlei wasn't cause he had just gotten viciously KOed twice and before that had a war with a 265+ Mark Hunt.

Cro Cop was passed his prime in 2006 as well but not too far past it however he had great match ups so he looked really good then he injured his foot on Wanderlei's head and had to deal with fighting in a cage for the first time then the Gonzaga fight happened and his leg got seriously injured again and he really couldn't kick much anymore, from that point onward he went downhill fast.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I'd agree Aleks and Igor should. To my knowledge Wand was never ranked at HW.

True, but he was the first person to KO Iron head Fujita and he was on Cro Cop's list. Wanderlei could have beaten top HWs and IMO if they didn't have those strange rules in the first Cro Cop fight he would have a win over Cro Cop.

I don't think your comparison is fair though, Mir was relevant in most all of those fights while Cro Cop was well past his prime in most of those losses.

 

[MuyThaiTom]

True, but he was the first person to KO Iron head Fujita and he was on Cro Cop's list. Wanderlei could have beaten top HWs and IMO if they didn't have those strange rules in the first Cro Cop fight he would have a win over Cro Cop.

Where are you getting 10-10 from? You seem to have added an extra win and two losses somewhere.

I added 2 wins, Aleks and Igor. I subtracted two losses that never happened from the original 12 losses. My assistant made errors in the original post, I fired her for that.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I added 2 wins, Aleks and Igor. I subtracted two losses that never happened from the original 12 losses. My assistant made errors in the original post, I fired her for that.

I saw you made an edit, I did as well. I think they are comparable in terms of them both being all time great HWs but Mir didn't seem to have a distinct prime like Cro Cop did and most of Cro Cop's losses happened after his prime ended.