CroCop all-time status

[Cooliox]

So Chuck Liddell also ain't a top #5 LHW GOAT because he got knocked the fuck out left and right in the twilight of his career beacuse he just didn't get out of the sport at the right moment? GTFO.

Chuck would beat Brendan Schaub today if they fought.

Guys CroCop lost to in his prime:
1) Big Nog (sub)
2) Randleman (ko)
3) Fedor (decision)
4) Hunt (decision)
5) Gonzaga (ko)
6) Kongo (dec)

Guys CroCop lost to on his return to the UFC
1) Mir (ko)
2) Nelson (tko)
3) Schaub (ko)
4) JDS (verbal tap to strikes)

He should have lost to Pat Barry too, he got dropped in the first and Barry just wholeheartedly let him recover.

And before that, he was getting manhandled by Overeem in their fight in Japan, before it was stopped to due to accidental low blow.


You don't get dominated this much in your career and still be considered top 5 HW GOAT. No fucking way.

He has a lot of career wins over MWs and LHWs. Though, he himself isn't really a big HW.
I'd rank Tim Sylvia in his prime over Crocop in terms of achievement and domination.

I can see Crocop being a top10 though.

 

[MuyThaiTom]

Lol, Mir is barely in top 10 when we are talking about HW GOAT.

Why? If Mir isn't than neither is Mirko.

Mir has more big wins than Mirko.
Mir has less bad losses than Mirko.
Mir is better against common opponents than Mirko.
Mir beat Mirko heads up.

There is no objective standard to rank CC over Mir. Only subjective pride was better romanticisms.

 

[MikalP]

Being champion means that you're the best fighter in your weight class.

Not always.

 

[MikalP]

I hate discussions like this. It's impossible to accurately assess where guys like Cro Cop are at in all time status. The best of the best are usually pretty easy to get close, but the guys like Cro Cop, Barnett, and the other top 2-5 guys in their respective times are next to impossible. Strength of schedule is impossible to look at objectively especially when we're looking at records from however many years ago and when guys keep fighting past their primes.


PRIDE was such a different time. Everyone's skills were so much more appreciated. Now, if you lose a couple of times you're considered a can and nowhere near any type of all time status which makes these lists change every other week.



afk watching every GP in chronological order while crying.

 

[Flexwave2003]

I hope the money Mirko made coming to North America was worth the sacrifices that came with it. I really do.

Things could have been so much more different if Pride never failed. But it is, what it is, and he is a living legend. But coming to N. America was not without its draw backs for his career in the end.

 

[Super Grover]

He was a killer and legend but his glory days didnt last long enough to really be considered one of the very best (IE: Top five guys). Mirko is somewhere in the lower end of the top 10-12.


(you dont have to be one of the best to be a legend)

 

[Cooliox]

Learn what prime means

According to most kids today, 'prime' supposedly is wrongly understood to mean 'when a fighter has a nice winning streak'.

When a fighter starts to lose to better emerging competition = "not in his prime". durrrr

laughable.

Crocop was in his early 30s when he came to the UFC, and failed miserably.

But let me guess, he WAS in his prime a year before when he beat a natural MW in Minowaman, an old LHW in Yoshida... a game Wanderlei who was a LHW (and now fighting at MW).

Yea, he fought HW Barnett in the finals and won.

Come on now, be real. I'm a big fan of Crocop but lets not fool ourselves. He didn't have success against legit HWs in his MMA career at all.

 

[Space]

I hate discussions like this. It's impossible to accurately assess where guys like Cro Cop are at in all time status. The best of the best are usually pretty easy to get close, but the guys like Cro Cop, Barnett, and the other top 2-5 guys in their respective times are next to impossible. Strength of schedule is impossible to look at objectively especially when we're looking at records from however many years ago and when guys keep fighting past their primes.

As long as we can agree that he's one of the best ever.

I dislike it when people discredit guys like Cro Cop, calling him a "can" and whatnot because his UFC run was mediocre. There really is no call for that. Rankings are meaningless, so as long as he gets his credit than that's all that matters.

Same goes for Fedor, Nogueira, and every other great who lost the battle to Father Time.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Top 5 DEFINITELY

1. Fedor
2. Nog
3. Cain
4. Couture
5. CC

This isn't the top 5 best if they all were matched up in their primes its the top 5 for significance of their primes.

 

[MikalP]

Fighting in the cage was one of the worst things for Cro Cop. Losing the ability to cut off angles as well as use them defensively really fucked with his striking.

 

[MikalP]

As long as we can agree that he's one of the best ever.

I dislike it when people discredit guys like Cro Cop, calling him a "can" and whatnot because his UFC run was mediocre. There really is no call for that. Rankings are meaningless, so as long as he gets his credit than that's all that matters.

Same goes for Fedor, Nogueira, and every other great who lost the battle to Father Time.

Agreed. I cannot stand when people try and discredit all of a fighters wins because of a loss (especially when the fighter is past their prime)

 

[MikalP]

According to most kids today, 'prime' supposedly is wrongly understood to mean 'when a fighter has a nice winning streak'.

When a fighter starts to lose to better emerging competition = "not in his prime". durrrr

laughable.

Crocop was in his early 30s when he came to the UFC, and failed miserably.

But let me guess, he WAS in his prime a year before when he beat a natural MW in Minowaman, an old LHW in Yoshida... a game Wanderlei who was a LHW (and now fighting at MW).

Yea, he fought HW Barnett in the finals and won.

Come on now, be real. I'm a big fan of Crocop but lets not fold ourselves. He didn't have success against legit HWs in his MMA career at all.

It's absolutely safe to say Cro Cop's prime left him when he got it kicked out of him by Gonzaga (which was the worst fight I've ever seen, btw. Heartbreaking)

A fighter's prime isn't only determined by age, health, etc. A fighter's mental state also really effects his prime. And both Cro Cop's mentality and chin were pretty much gone after the Gonzaga fight.





So fuck you Gonzaga.

 

[eXtv]

Dude was just never the same post-OWGP in 2006. He was going to retire after but took the UFC's offer instead and he never looked like he cared. It's a real shame because when he was on, Mirko was one of the most deadly and devastating strikers the sport has ever seen and absolutely one of the most talented fighters of all time.

He is certainly up there when it comes to the greatest Heavyweights to ever compete.

 

[Flexwave2003]

Mirko's straight left use to be extremely quick with plenty of power behind it. He must not have trained very hard once he got to N. America...as it just wasnt the same. Neither was he...

Nothing but respect for the man. An all-time great.

 

[See O]

I used to cringe watching Crocops fights, I remember when he gave that Russian guy a brutal liver kick....made my liver hurt just watching it.

 

[MiroHa]

Why? If Mir isn't than neither is Mirko.

Mir has more big wins than Mirko.
Mir has less bad losses than Mirko.
Mir is better against common opponents than Mirko.
Mir beat Mirko heads up.

There is no objective standard to rank CC over Mir. Only subjective pride was better romanticisms.

Mir's biggest wins are Sylvia and Zombie Nog x2 which are also his only top 10 wins. Cro Cop's top 10 wins are Barnett x3, Igor, Herring and Fujita x2. He also has other good wins like Alex and Wand who weren't ranked at HW, was beating Nog up for 10 minutes, was competetive against Fedor and avenged his upsetting loss to Randleman..

Mir has some of the worst losses of any all-time great: Ian Freeman, Marcio Cruz and Vera. None of Mirko's losses is half as bad as those.

You're going to bring MMAth up? None of those common opponents are relevant since Cro Cop and Mir were in different phases of their careers when they faced them. Big Nog was in his prime against Cro Cop and not against Mir etc.

When they fought Mirko was so far from his prime it was sad. Besides that fight was a stinker and had no clear winner before that knee landed 1 minute before the end of the fight.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Dude was just never the same post-OWGP in 2006. He was going to retire after but took the UFC's offer instead and he never looked like he cared. It's a real shame because when he was on, Mirko was one of the most deadly and devastating strikers the sport has ever seen and absolutely one of the most talented fighters of all time.

He is certainly up there when it comes to the greatest Heavyweights to ever compete.

Three things changed for Cro Cop after the 06 GP...cage, drug testing and ufc opponents.

I'm not saying any one thing was the cause but I think we can narrow it down to this.

 

[MiroHa]

Dude was just never the same post-OWGP in 2006. He was going to retire after but took the UFC's offer instead and he never looked like he cared. It's a real shame because when he was on, Mirko was one of the most deadly and devastating strikers the sport has ever seen and absolutely one of the most talented fighters of all time.

He is certainly up there when it comes to the greatest Heavyweights to ever compete.

His left straight was incredibly fast and accurate.

 

[HHJ]

one of the most feared men of his era,but always blew the big one imo. won a tourney that was created for him to win. If not for Fedor and Nog,he woulda had a nice run as champ

 

[eXtv]

Three things changed for Cro Cop after the 06 GP...cage, drug testing and ufc opponents.

I'm not saying any one thing was the cause but I think we can narrow it down to this.

Also, what I specified in my post, being Mirko's devotion to fighting and mental focus.

This is incredibly important and should not be overlooked. Any athlete that wants to find success at the highest level has to be completely mentally devoted to their art, and Mirko never was following his last win against Barnett on his deceased Father's birthday. At least, he didn't show signs that he was in my opinion.

After the Gonzaga loss and subsequent knee/ankle damage, it was all downhill from there. He never recovered, mentally, or physically.